Pelham, spurs and whip...

Stinky at the moment is jumped in a wilkie snaffle to give me a little more brakes - I like to stop on a hand squeeze, not a pull. I carry a whip as he is very laid back and needs the occasional tap on approach to get him going forward without having to really kick on, I like to squeeze to stop and go, not hault and boot. I don't use spurs - he is light off the leg for turns and at the moment does not need them.

Delia my TB was jumped in a gag on the second ring - again so I could stop on a squeeze. She needed an occasional tap with the whip, she could do some dirty stops. I had spurs on her as often a little squeeze with the spurs was required when she was thinking about stopping or pulling out, and the whip was the final backup.

My first TB had spurs and a Dr Bristol and a market harborough. She, when jumping was very strong but due to previous abuse, her sides were dead, hence the spurs allowed my short fat legs to turn her more effectively but not to go forward. No whip was needed with her.

All these aid can be effective but should be used with care. What I hate is seeing someone hauling on a strong bit and also kicking on with spurs and applying the whip. Both my TBs were well schooled, but jumping got them very excited, and Delia thought too much about whether she liked the look of a jump, hence stronger bits and spurs for when I needed a bit more control.
 
About 12 years ago, I knew someone who owned the most genuine pony. A completely trustworthy ride...and ruined in a matter of months!

The rider was 13 at the time and the horse was in its 30's!!

Rider wanted to jump and did well on the pony but the pony was too slow for jump offs so the mother of the rider fed the pony oats daily. The pony then became too much for the girl so they used an American gag on the pony but continued with oats! Then the pony would not move because it has a very inexperienced child pulling on its mouth all of the time so they gave the child spurs!!! Oats, a gag and spurs all in use on a horse who was not only old but also foot sore and had to be buted daily!

The story goes on and is very sad but I dont want to go off from the post subject.

The girls mother considered her self experienced and knowledgable and once rode at Hickstead but she got results through abusing her animals and she was teaching her daughter to do the same.

Both Mother and Daughter now work for an animal rescue charity!! No clues as to guessing which one!!
 
It's worth remembering that some horses and ponies simply aren't as comfy in snaffle bits, my mare is much happier in a pelham (mullen mouth not jointed)
 
A pelham (depends a bit on the exact type of pelham) used correctly with two reins does not have to be a strong bit at all. It can actually be a brilliant bit for horses that are quite sensitive normally but need an occasional "extra woah".

I think the OPs problem is with understanding the correct use of these aids really, there is no reason why they shouldn't be used together. In fact if you watch the likes of Sylvia Lock or Heather Moffett and other classical riders you may see all three in use together!

Personally I have no problem with anyone carrying a whip, it doesn't have to be used. I subscribe to the school of thought that it is better to carry one and not need it than to not carry one and need it. I rarely use mine, but occasionally it is useful if not essential. It is not just used to make the horse go faster, it can be a reprimand, it can be used to encourage the horse forward, or to one side or the other or to encourage it to step through or to get off its shoulder. I do dislike seeing people using jumping whips on the shoulder as a matter of course though, it has its place but generally I wish people would use it behind their leg even if it means carrying a slightly longer stick.

Spurs are used to refine the leg aid not to make it stronger or sharper. Again they do not have to be used. If your lower leg position is good you can wear spurs and put your leg on without using the spur. Some horses do respond much better to the gentle use of the spur than the strong use of the leg. A mare I used to do some dressage on was pretty dead to the leg, you could wear yourself out using your legs and she'd barely move but if you popped a pair of spurs on and used them sparingly she transformed from riding school plod to dressage horse. She was so used to being nagged and kicked by novices that she ignored leg aids, when you put the spurs on she just went "oh right proper work - proper rider - I'll pay attention then!".

I'd rather see a horse being ridden in pelham spurs and whip, than being nagged and kicked all the time and hauled around in a snaffle. I'd also rather see someone ride in a pelham than a dutch gag on the bottom ring with one set of reins and no curb!

The mare I ride at the moment is a nightmare in a snaffle, she is a big strong girl who can be very rude. I don't ride her all the time and she gets used to being able to ignore her rider. Checking her can be very physical in a snaffle and I hate the feeling that I am hauling her about, never mind the fact that it kills my shoulders. If I had my way with her I'd school her in a double for a while to get her listening and responding to the bit better, sadly I don't make the decisions, but riding her in a double or pelham feels like a different horse, she is light and responsive and polite, I can halt her by closing my fingers rather than leaning back and pulling (it isn't quite that bad but it feels like it!).

I think I'd sum it up by saying you could think of using spurs or a pelham as being like a hearing aid. You could still communicate with someone who is hard of hearing by shouting at them but it would be much more pleasant for you both if they wore a hearing aid.
 
I would like to see anyone trying to take my TB around xc course with a snaffle, no whip and no spurs.
 
jumptoit said:
I don't feel that tbh as with a snaffle I would have to constantly pull whereas the gag is just a little half halt to balance her and sit her up when needs be. The crossing of the jaw she does when being led in a headcollar too, she's had teeth and everything checked :).

As others have said I prefer to have a slightly stronger bit with a more effective action that I can use very little, the same goes for spurs a little nudge here and there is preferable to niggling or a pony club kick imo :).
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I agree 100%, in an ideal world, yes we would all be in snaffles without spurs, whips but we aren't and that's just the way it is. If anybody could of got Missy around a xc course, clear, without a gag, whip and spurs then I'll take it all back! ;)
 
teddyt said:
Because the horse and rider need schooling to improve balance, self carriage, suppleness etc and the rider wants results quicker than will be gained from schooling so they resort to artificial aids. e.g. if a horse is on its forehand so finds it hard to slow down or stop, training will get you there but a pelham will make the horse stop quicker because of the pressure on its head and mouth! Same with going off the leg, training will achieve this but spurs and a whip will get the same result quicker.

Not correct but a sad fact of impatience and/or lack of understanding from the rider.

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Having tried and tried, I can tell you that no amount of patience would make my pony happy in a snaffle (or any bit, other than a pelham). Fortunately I understand him enough to have realised this. He is ridden in a pelham because he is happy in it.

And after 2 and a half years of riding without spurs, I would say the past 6 month of using spurs have probably been the 6 months when pony and I have had the most fun and made the most progress - he understands what I want and responds, and I don't have to keep nagging.

Not all horses are the same, and what suits one won't necessarily suit another. Better a well thought-out combination of aids that suits the horse, than a rider out of control/having to pony-club-kick constantly for the sake of not using a stronger bit/spurs/whip.
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I think also its important to realise that some horses change their way of going half way through what ever your doing, for example a schooling session, some horses can take good 40 minutes to work in, until a penny drops and your horse 'switches on' therefore its easier for the rider to use spurs (just because there strapped onto your boots, doesnt mean to say a rider is using them) however it may only be untill this moment when your horse is working correctly that the pelham may need to kick in, after all bit is only as harsh as the hands on the end of the reins.

I do agree with Teddyt also, putting the time in and providing the horse has been started correctly then there should minimal enforcement from both leg and mouth to keep the horse where you want it, ideally I think this should be the first port of call providing the rider has been matched with the right sort of horse.

But if where talking young children bezzing around on ponies, flapping the legs with spurs on and yangking their mouths etc....then yes, ban all things metal!
 
Always rode my big 17.1hh ID/TB in dutch gag, spurs and whip for hacking out. I needed power assisted brakes,and steering. He was forward going and could cover a lot of ground I found using spurs and gag could always get him back in hand if he tanked off with you. Yet he was well schooled and a nice feller, but just very athletic at times, and it enabled me to get through to him quickly, when necessary.
 
Kids should never be allowed near spurs IMO. The vast majority of ponies I see do not need strong bits (3 ring gags being the favoured ones) or spurs. I think the parents wack them in these things because they think it looks more professional or something. Whatever happened to plain snaffles?! I never had any of that in my day and only wore spurs briefly on a nappy horse when I was about 18 (didn't last as I hated them).
 
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