Pemphigus coronitis

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chunky11

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Does anybody have any experience with this disease?
I have researched it and the prognosis does not look promising, so I would like to hear from people with any experience of it.

My 3 year old thoroughbred is showing strong symptoms : weight loss, little lethargic, bleeding coronet bands on hind feet, summer sores and coat is much lighter than his usuall chestnut colour, he has also rubbed his chestnut off.

I feel it has been caused through a number of factors;

His recent growth spurt, the extremely hot weather (photosensitation) the extreme amount of flies attacking him ( field next to large pond near cows)

I think all these things have contributed to his immune system going into overdrive and attacking "his skin"

Any help and hope into a way out would be a great help!!!

thank you

Andrea & Chunky
 
Hi Andrea

A close friend of mine lost her big gelding to this last year.

His started as a rough patch in the centre of the coronet band on one foot and over the course of a year spread to all for feet. He had lumpy raw sores all the way around his coronets and right down into the cleft of his heels. His heels started to split apart in towards his pasterns.

Our local vets were not comfortable trying to deal with this and spoke to Liverpool (Knottenbelt?) who provided a cream but is had no effect My friend also spoke to Roger Hatch at Trinity Consultants who recommended trying Coal Tarr but did say that he had never seen a case cured, only managed to a point before it ultimately worsened.

Charlie was PTS as the condition adversley affected his quality of life. He was too sore on his feet to move around and was miserable.

Sorry that this is not a more positive post. The nly glimmer of hope might be that you have recognised this and identified it sooner.

Best of luck.
 
I'm absolutely sure this will be of no help but my dog has Pemphigus foliaceus and has had it for many years. His is controlled, but not removed completely, by low level steriods...to be honest I was told the steriods would kill him before the pemphigus would but so far he's 3 months off his 18th birthday so something is looking after him!!!

Obviously the strain of the disorder and animal is different but there might be some hope. :(
 
I was on a yard with a mare who had had this. She was also treated with long term low dose steriods. She is in her late teens and still hacking out round our way as I see her sometimes. She had flare ups of the problem from time to time but went out on hunter trials when I knew her. She seemed to not be affected by the steroids but I believe they watched her weight and grass intake due to the laminitis risk.
 
EnduroRider said:
Hi Andrea

A close friend of mine lost her big gelding to this last year.

His started as a rough patch in the centre of the coronet band on one foot and over the course of a year spread to all for feet. He had lumpy raw sores all the way around his coronets and right down into the cleft of his heels. His heels started to split apart in towards his pasterns.

Our local vets were not comfortable trying to deal with this and spoke to Liverpool (Knottenbelt?) who provided a cream but is had no effect My friend also spoke to Roger Hatch at Trinity Consultants who recommended trying Coal Tarr but did say that he had never seen a case cured, only managed to a point before it ultimately worsened.

Charlie was PTS as the condition adversley affected his quality of life. He was too sore on his feet to move around and was miserable.

Sorry that this is not a more positive post. The nly glimmer of hope might be that you have recognised this and identified it sooner.

Best of luck.
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Many thanks for reply it all helps a lot, I have spoken to two farriers who have never heard of this, I have never seen this before!

Today, which is day two he seems very miserable about himself, he was head hung by the field gate whereas before he would come trotting from the back field when I shout him.

He is now in his box, dont really know what to do for the best, I have removed any possibility of another fly bite - which I think has set this off and sterilised his feet and used terramycin which contains tetracycline (I read this can help)
Just trying to reduce any need for his immune system to defend his body - plus got steroid injection later on.

He is covered in hives its so horrible.

How old was your friends horse and what measures did she take, his feet are pretty much a mess and his tendons are on fire.

Thank you

Andrea x
 
misst said:
I was on a yard with a mare who had had this. She was also treated with long term low dose steriods. She is in her late teens and still hacking out round our way as I see her sometimes. She had flare ups of the problem from time to time but went out on hunter trials when I knew her. She seemed to not be affected by the steroids but I believe they watched her weight and grass intake due to the laminitis risk.
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Thank you for getting back to me,

This does give me some hope, today isnt great though, Im hoping he does not get worse and can get somekind of control over it as like your friends horse, antibiotics and steriods for later on so hopefully see an improvement soon!

Andrea X
 
Have a look for my auto immune thread.

My beautiful girly has pemphigus erythematosus and foliaceus. It has always been a case of "you are just not managing her sweet itch" until this year, she lost all her hair all over, swelling all over and she could hardly move. However she hadn't given up, so we ran 4 weeks of oral steroids. It stopped everything - and whilst it was needed to pick her up from the dark place, I don't feel it helped resolve it. I think her body had to fight it and go through all the stages. She lost her hair all over twice, had lots of swllings etcand now, six months on is fully hairy and back under saddle - the best she has ever been!!

I have to protect her from the sun and midges. I use a weatherbeeta summer sheet combo as it's ripstop and lasts well with a fly mask on. I feed her global herbs Skratch plus for the slim inflammation and keep midges away (simply fantastic, cannot believe it), keep metal off her face Ie headcollars as much as possible, wah scurfy bits regularly with a menthol anti dandruff to soothe skin. Otherwise I keep skin potions to a min, feed as basic as possible (speedibeet), worm count instead of worm (unless needed) and keep her off grass o
In a Barr paddock (though more for lami reasons).

There is a lot of scary information out there, as hard as it is - put it to one side. No one saysyou have to be a statistic. I have since found out this is not the first episode of my girlies problems to this extent - her las flare up was 3 years ago - so she has survived 3 years against the stats and is late teens - I got really distressed at "googling" and in the end took the opinion that google did not know my horse and that if PTS was whT she needed, she wod have that - but thankfully she didn't and we have, for The time being escaped that decision.

Feel free to pm me if you want, there is also a pe
Pemphigus fiaceoys yahoo group worth looking at

Ps sorry for awful typing on silly phone grr!
 
Thank you for the reply, this is amazing news,
Its 1.35am and I have just left the stables a bit happier, the 6 injections, anti histamines, antibiotics, electrolytes and danillon seem to have started to work, the bleeding had calmed and his lesions have stopped weeping and his legs are no longer burning up his temperature is 38.2 so ive come home till 4am.

Wondering if I'm kiding myself on false hope, the vet has given him maximum dosage of everything possible and said he had never seen membranes that red and wanted to take him in - but he has eaten and passed and drank all day which is good,

I am prepared for the worst and will not see him suffer, its such an awful disease which took over in 24hours, I have removed any potential fly bit with a full fly sheet and he is coated in sudocrem in the places that doesnt touch!

I will have a look at your thread! and well done with your horse! Positive thoughts! :D x
 
jsr said:
I'm absolutely sure this will be of no help but my dog has Pemphigus foliaceus and has had it for many years. His is controlled, but not removed completely, by low level steriods...to be honest I was told the steriods would kill him before the pemphigus would but so far he's 3 months off his 18th birthday so something is looking after him!!!

Obviously the strain of the disorder and animal is different but there might be some hope. :(
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Yes it is of the Pemphigus strain, I think the folicaceus is different though, in the way it is hereditory where as this, Im sure isnt, he is Blushing groom x Sadlers wells bred and im sure it would be more common in thoroughbreds of this cross which is quite a classic cross.
I have been supplementing with omega 3 and vitamin E as this is supposed to slow the immune response as well keeping him as stress free and happy as possible.
I have seen much improvement even though I have cut him off the bute and antibiotics, but the steroids dont wear off until wednesday so we will see.
I have a hair analysis being done to check if he has a specific deficiency so that will be intresting, :)
 
How are you supping omegas?

I found that steroids resolved it for us, but it "froze" Te process - her body still had to go through all the different stages of shedding and swelling before it resolved itself.

Have you looked at something like the cashel sun chaps? They might be of help - I know certainly sunshine is a big factor for us as is grass.

Pemphigus in horses is different to dogs - it's not necessarily hereditary - but that may be because it is more difficult to trace history perhaps?

For example madam was "abandoned" and she was bald when rescued - I can't trace her history because she was dumped - was she dumped because they couldn make her better? Or did the stress of abandonment induce this?
 
popularfurball said:
How are you supping omegas?

I found that steroids resolved it for us, but it "froze" Te process - her body still had to go through all the different stages of shedding and swelling before it resolved itself.

Have you looked at something like the cashel sun chaps? They might be of help - I know certainly sunshine is a big factor for us as is grass.

Pemphigus in horses is different to dogs - it's not necessarily hereditary - but that may be because it is more difficult to trace history perhaps?

For example madam was "abandoned" and she was bald when rescued - I can't trace her history because she was dumped - was she dumped because they couldn make her better? Or did the stress of abandonment induce this?
Click to expand...

No I havent - Too be fair I have been narrowing everything down that gets a reaction and so far nothing had flaired up new - he HAS to go out, evidently after the past few days sun doesnt bother him or grass, I am starting to think the stress of not going out does so trying to keep him stress free as he is used to living out all year round and not stuck in a box in the summer,
He is Sadlers Wells x Blushing Groom I could literally trace his pedigree back a couple of hundred yrs,

How long did you have your lil girl on steroids for?? His will wear of by Wednesday...
 
She ran a course of 250mg daily (she is 12hh), after one week such massive improvement so we dropped it to half dose daily - she quickly declined again so a further two weeks of full dose and then two weeks at half and two more weeks at half on alternate days. So eight weeks in total.

She isnt immediatley affected by the sun, but after a couple of days new crusts on her exposed parts are evident (face mainly, sometimes above heel bulbs) - popping a fly mask on along with her rug helps to keep these at bay.

Grass makes her itchy - she still goes out (and am building her back up to staying out overnight regularily) but she is in a bare field with hay :)
 
Good to hear you might be winning the battle. Good luck. The mare I knew had been very ill intially and was almost PTS so do not give up hope. She has an excellent quality of life now even though she is no spring chicken.
 
Lethargic and swollen
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Started to lose hair under tummy where swelling was
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Then sores like this appeared on her body
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Until this happened
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Then I started to ride her again
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To this
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... I know it is a different form of auto immune, but hopefully will give you some positivity as there is so many bad stats on the internet. We take each day as it comes - some days bad, some days good but we work day to day and enjoy it and try not to worry about the future. She lost 100kg in sx months - thats the same as 16stone!
 
I lost Chunky two months ago now, I had to have him put to sleep. My vet shown very little intrest in the disease as it seemed they knew just as little about it.
My sister and I were looking after him 24 hours a day he was on a massive (and expensive) dose of prednisolone, which did help his symptoms, Proffessor Knottenbelt helped me immensly, despite never meeting him.

It was suspected that what he had was Paraneoplastic Pemphigus, which is all three affecting mucous membranes, skin and Coronets, he was in a very sorry state, within 5 dreadfull weeks of suffering I had no choice but to call it a day.

The thing that stresses me out is the lack of intrest in gaining knowledge from my vets - who are specialist equine!!

So I am making it my mission to raise awareness, I am studying Biological Sciences and hope to specialize in pathology and research in the area.

Please Join my facebook group which I have set up to help other owners and for people to exchange experiences, no matter how small!!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Equine-Pemphigus-Coronitis/126090464145296

Also look out for Horse and hound issue 6th October 2011, veterinary write up by Proffessor Knottenbelt an expert in the disease, and about my Chunky.


Thank you all for your help xxxx
 
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Im so pleased you have done this - and Im so sorry to hear about Chunky.

I must email Dr Knottenbelt and update him on us - thankfully we have a good outcome... for the time being.

If we have another flare up, I think I would also have to call it a day - I was lucky that insurance paid for most of this - but the steroids are extortionate.

I will buy HH :)
 
Thank you, I feel like I have to for Chunky, and for other people, I dont think I have ever been so much at my wits end, I could cry about it now, loosing your horse is one thing, but when you give 100% heart and determination only for all your efforts to keep shattering infront of you.
He had had enough that day, before the vet came we were all waiting in the field sat and he was stood a little distance away from us pawing the air, never had he done that before, I know he knew the vet was coming, who happend to be an old friend which softened the blow.

Please tap in Equine Pemphigus Coronitis, it would be good to do an album of your girls form and a story of her :)

I hope she stays well will be wishing for you and her,

Many thanks

Andrea xx
 
p.s just to clarify I had to change vets half way through because they refused to give me his blood sample and skin biopsy results (helpful!!!) and I was sick of chasing them, so changed to my old vet and friend towrds the end.
 
Very sorry to hear you lost Chunky but it sounds as if it was not in vain. I hope your research can help another horse.
 
I too also changed vets - I was painted out to be a bad owner who didn't do enough for her. I was refused biopsies and steroids.

Is there a separate group for coronitis? I am on the yahoo foliaceous group which I must update on.

Good luck and again (((hugs))) for your loss - we came increbily close to that on a lot of occasions and my weld fell apart, I can't begin to imagine what it would be liketo actually happen.
 
Really sorry to hear the outcome wasn't as bright as you hoped. And that he wasn't so comfortable either. It is a money game, when it all comes down to it - Prof Knottenbelt is an exception and one of the few very special specialists out there who do have a genuine interest in your case and how things pan out.

Good for you taking up the challenge. Jackie J A Taylor did pretty much the same thing on her Yahoo group and it is THE place to get information and help on Cushings and EMS.

My heart sank when I read pemphigus. From what little I know, it appears to be a nasty and incurable condition and one which is almost impossible to alleviate and buy time in. So sorry, once again, that it didn't go his way. And thank you for coming back to let us know the end to his story, sad as it is x
 
There's a site called for love of the horse that is run by a doctor in america, he has an interest in pemphigus and makes up blends of herbs that deal with it naturally rather than with steroids with great results if you catch it early enough but also keeps in check for longer standing sufferers ( he ships to uk and checks the blood results etc).
Stumbled across the site whilst trying to find info for someone I know who's horse has had it for years (affects the coronets) and no longer has insurance cover for the steriods that her horse is on.
Its worth a look and chat on the site x
 
Did your friend have much luck with this guy?
I lost my gelding very sadly and quite awfully, I do belive that the natural route is the way forwards in re-balancing the immune system.
I have started a page on facebook so if you do have any info on things that help please do share as it is filled with other owners with the same dilema

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Equine-Pemphigus-Coronitis-awareness/126090464145296

thank you for all your replies xxx
 
I am going trough exactly the same sequences of photos as above again twelve mOnths on. Gutted.

However, everything is much less this time - she is on Skratch and Old age by global herbs (old age is immuplus an detox restore) mixed together).

Time will tell this time, but we have passed the point where we needed steroids last year :)
 
Thanks :) she had Bowen last week which has really picked her up... Don't understand how it works but has amazing results with her - don't get me wrong it doesn't cure it but helps eith movement and swellings and mood :)
 
It's a non invasive massage based therapy - but less invasie than massage. Silver cant cope with touch when her skin is like this - she shivers in fear as it hurts. This website explains it a bit better and is my friend who came to treat her

Www.hoofandpawholistics.co.uk

Here Sil is before Bowen
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Today :D
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Attitude much?! Me?!
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Her few bald bits - spreading each day but she seems ok with it all as long as I dont touch her - except with a rubber curry she loves that!
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My beautiful girl... Xxx
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