PENS Therapy - any success stories please?

[teacups]

I posted yesterday morning to say I would be thinking of you (as would a few others on the forum, I reckon), DnC, but my post does not show up - how weird. Anyway, hope it went as well as it could - a shame the weather has been so horrible for him the last couple of days.

Cascada, thank you for posting your update. Really good to hear that the PENS is doing something so far, and will cross all fingers and toes for it to be long-term rather than temporary! Here's hoping.

Clara85, I read your post and would love to hear updates - fingers and toes also crossed for you.

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

I posted yesterday morning to say I would be thinking of you (as would a few others on the forum, I reckon), DnC, but my post does not show up - how weird. Anyway, hope it went as well as it could - a shame the weather has been so horrible for him the last couple of days.

Cascada, thank you for posting your update. Really good to hear that the PENS is doing something so far, and will cross all fingers and toes for it to be long-term rather than temporary! Here's hoping.

Clara85, I read your post and would love to hear updates - fingers and toes also crossed for you.

Thank you...
He had a few hours out and went with a tummy full of carrots (his favourite) & what feels like all of my heart
I did feel relief though - he is pain free and I don't have to worry that he's suffering in silence.
This morning it's windy with sleety rain and I don't have to see him try to hide his face or keep popping back to make sure it hasn't got too much and he needs to be brought in...
I won't have to see his eyes half closed in pain and the back of my heels won't be bruised from him accidently treading on me as he presses his head on my back to hide from whatever is causing him to try to shut his nose..

 

[spotty_pony2]

So sorry dazed'n'confused at least you know he is no longer suffering.

Quick update on my boy...

Second course of steroids did nothing, Vets reluctant to test for allergies still. He was fine being ridden as long as wearing nosenet and fine in stable but usually head shaking in the morning even with nose net on. Chiropractor came and put atlas bone back in line which seemed to make him feel better and there was no head shaking for two days. This quickly started again as before.

Then the unthinkable happened - he has had a swollen lymph gland since last June (head shaking started end of October) had blood test to check for Strangles at time but it was't thank goodness. Vet said not to worry as it wasn't bothering him, it has never gone although it does get bigger and smaller. Anyway, it suddenly started bothering him and he didn't like it being touched - it felt warm too. Got the Vet and she came and stuck something in it and pus came seeping out - abscess! Could have been brewing since last summer! Vet took a swab and left us with instructions to clean and flush with diluted hibiscrub twice a day and a course of Norodine and Danilon. Head shaking symptoms seemed to lessen but did not go away. Lump seemed to get smaller, but when antibiotics ran out seemed to become painful again and warm and was still producing pus.

Results from the swab came back on Tuesday. Apparently it is a type of bacteria called Actinomyces Denticolons which is resistant to Norodine and causes an infection which can affect any part of the head called Actinomycosis. The bacteria can enter through anything such as a small cut or eating something with the bacteria on it. He is now on a course of Doxycycline which I am struggling to get him to eat as he doesn't like the taste so had to syringe it in tonight much to his horror and still cleaning and flushing the abscess. Vet said she will come back to scrape it out if it still doesn't clear it up. He seems a lot happier and her have had no head shaking for two days. Still not daring to think it was the cause of the head shaking but hoping it might be. He is wearing nose net still as before and isn't being ridden at the moment but he seems a lot brighter in himself so fingers crossed!

 

[Clare85]

Interesting reading spotty_pony2. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that you've found a cause of your boy's headshaking. Hope the abscess clears up soon x

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

Oh my god Spotty-pony, I really, really hope that's it!!! How unbelievable that it's been brewing for so long!
Keep us updated, will keep everything crossed for you!

 

[cascada27]

oh fingers crossed that it may have been the cause and that the head shaking stays away! its such a random condition as different things seem to trigger different horses and what helps with ones symptoms has no effect on another horse - so you never know!

So its been 3 weeks today since Joeys last PENS treatment. Sort of mixed results really - I definitely think that its better, but its by no means gone, however I think I am managing it as best as i can and he seems pretty happy in himself. The headshaking when it is there seems to be of a nodding rather than the violent jerking that i was constantly before.

The weather over the last few days with the wind and rain hasnt helped - he was headshaking badly in the rain/wind yesterday morning, however by the evening he wasn't doing it at all. hes been happy to stay in his stable over night the past few nights with no head shaking either morning or evening that i could see, whereas before he would stress in the stable and headshake.

I have a feeling that he may just have bad days and better days going forward, but at the moment from what i can see the good days are more than the bad days, and if he does start headshaking I just give him a treat ball or hay and he stops (although this is more distraction rather than that the pain is gone i think). - i've not attempted to ride/lunge in any way at the moment as i'm paranoid if i do that i might make him worse again, but we shall he how he goes when the spring comes in.

I think by the standards of the vets it would not be classed as a success, however from what it was before it seems to be much better on the whole.

Would consider taking him for a 4th treatment, but going to see how he goes over the next month or so and take it from there really.

Will keep it updated as we go forward.

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

Cascada, the fact that he's much more comfortable on the whole is a success! He sounds a lot less stressed thankfully

 

[cascada27]

Yeah its definitely better I think, i would class it as manageable for now. I let him out into a different field yesterday and he was galloping round and round and bucking and rolling and was so lovely to see him bouncing around all over the place as I havent seen him like that in a while, he tend to just eat, as i think that helps with the discomfort.

However then the bloody rain and wind turned on us and as there's no grass out there he was shaking so badly, but then as soon as i put him in his usual paddock with some hay he stopped shaking and was just eating. And nothing this morning or last night.

i think we just have to take it day by day and see what happens.

In the past week ive made the decision to leave him now without a rug as hes pretty fat and that seems to be better for him. Sometimes putting a rug on him can start off the headshaking and i have no idea why. So for now he can stay fat dirty and hairy if it helps the shaking!

It still makes me so sad when i go down and see him headshaking - just makes my heart sink. But then equally its so lovely when hes not shaking and ive been able to bring him in and give him a brush and put him in his stable and its like hes back to normal. Just hoping these days continue to outnumber than bad ones.

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

It's so hard, I do feel for you...
All you can do is take it a day at a time, you're doing the best you can for him...

 

[emfen1305]

I have followed this thread from the beginning out of interest as my boy displays some symptoms of a headshaker but nothing as severe as what I have read so far. I clicked on this morning to keep updated and firstly, Dazednconfused and I am so sorry to hear about your boy, I was heartbroken reading that you had to have him pts, it's a crying shame that nothing more can be done for them given all of the advances in other fields! I do hope the fact that you know he is no longer in pain brings some comfort to you!

Cascada27 I hope you continue to see an improvement and that the good days start to outweigh the bad ones and Spottypony I hope your boy also continues to improve!

My boy started violently twitching when eating his tea around September 2015. It started off quite mild almost like a tick and then got to the point where he was hitting his head and kicking his bucket to the back of the stable almost out of frustration. I tried changing feeds, buckets etc and he was better if there was no bucket or if i fed him from waist height. He seemed to stop in winter and then it came back with vengeance last May when he cut all of his nose by scraping it up the wall. At this point i got the vet who suggested trialling him on Cavalesse which I think is typically a sweet itch medicine. Anyway this seemed to work and the twitching stopped. I took him off it in winter because i assumed it was a summer related but then it has since come back so I have put him back on the Cavalesse to see if this helps relieve it.

I guess my question is whether it is worth getting it investigated? I wont have long left on the insurance to do anything with it as the vet started "investigating" last May and I wouldn't know where to start. He's just had a rather stressful stay at Leahurst to have a bone scan which showed hock arthritis so he was medicated and i am reluctant to send him away again as it caused him to colic. He only ever does it with his evening feed. Never with breakfast, or his haylage, carrots, grazing etc so I'm at a bit of loss and starting to think it's just a habit. I tried just giving him carrots in a bucket and he still did it which leads me to believe for some reason he associates that specific feed with twitching his head! Has anyone heard of this before or does anyone have any tips on what I could do see if there is genuinely a problem or just a habit? I suppose the easy answer would be not to give him an evening feed but he absolutely adores his bucket and would be quite sad if i stopped. Plus i have a variety of supplements (sigh) that he needs to have.

Virtual biscuits for advice

 

[cascada27]

From what i've been researched and experienced the headshaking can take different forms and be triggered by many different things.

The headshaking we have which is the diagnosed trigeminal neuralgia headshaking is exactly like you described as almost like an violent involuntary tick - that's usually how i describe it to people. Its usually vertical as well rather than side to side.

Is when he is eating the only time he does it? Might sounds a bit odd but have you tried just hand feeding his feed to him - does that make any difference?

With the trigeminal nerve headshaking its the sensitivity of the nerve which causes pain and triggers the violent movement of the headshake. Usually when the are grazing/rubbing their head is distracts them from the pain that's caused by the nerve - mine doesnt headshake when he is grazing or eating but does in the field/stable/ridden/lunges when its bad.

Worth investigating if its come back and it causing you/your poor horse worry for sure

The symptoms sounds like a headshaker but if he is only doing it when he is eating his feed, i've never heard of a link between that and the trigeminal headshakers.

Saying that headshaking can be caused by lots of other things such as the allergies, or in deed behavioural - worth getting checked by your vet though!

Your poor boy - sounds like hes had a bit of a stressful time being away! Fingers crossed its nothing like the trigeminal headshaking as that really is awful and no 100% cure by a long way. But that its something that easily fixed once diagnosed!

let us know how you get on and what you decide to do! Although it makes me so sad to hear another beautiful animal is suffering with the headshaking, its always interesting to hear what others try and symptoms/triggers.

 

[emfen1305]

From what i've been researched and experienced the headshaking can take different forms and be triggered by many different things.

The headshaking we have which is the diagnosed trigeminal neuralgia headshaking is exactly like you described as almost like an violent involuntary tick - that's usually how i describe it to people. Its usually vertical as well rather than side to side.

Is when he is eating the only time he does it? Might sounds a bit odd but have you tried just hand feeding his feed to him - does that make any difference?

With the trigeminal nerve headshaking its the sensitivity of the nerve which causes pain and triggers the violent movement of the headshake. Usually when the are grazing/rubbing their head is distracts them from the pain that's caused by the nerve - mine doesnt headshake when he is grazing or eating but does in the field/stable/ridden/lunges when its bad.

Worth investigating if its come back and it causing you/your poor horse worry for sure

The symptoms sounds like a headshaker but if he is only doing it when he is eating his feed, i've never heard of a link between that and the trigeminal headshakers.

Saying that headshaking can be caused by lots of other things such as the allergies, or in deed behavioural - worth getting checked by your vet though!

Your poor boy - sounds like hes had a bit of a stressful time being away! Fingers crossed its nothing like the trigeminal headshaking as that really is awful and no 100% cure by a long way. But that its something that easily fixed once diagnosed!

let us know how you get on and what you decide to do! Although it makes me so sad to hear another beautiful animal is suffering with the headshaking, its always interesting to hear what others try and symptoms/triggers.

No I haven't tried hand feeding him before actually! Sometimes when it was really bad I would take the bucket away and hand feed so not too lose the supplements. He is on ready mash now which makes it a little bit harder but i could definitely try. I have taken videos so I look back at it almost looks like he's rushing to eat it, like he's afraid of it which would be akin to pain I guess. He doesn't do the head rubbing that others have described but when it is at it's worst he does rub his nose from side to side on the stable door. Despite having his haylage out of a haybar now, he has had it both in nets and off the floor before and never any twitching. He has also never done it when ridden or lunged though he can be quite unsettled taking contact (chomping bit etc but this could be due to a number of things).

I did mention to the vet this week when he came back to check his hocks. He said to try the Cavelesse for a month as it can take a bit of time to get into his system so I will do that to see if it helps. He said the cavalesse would only help if allergies, if it is the trigeminal nerve as you say then the cavalesse won't help that so hopefully i will have a better idea in a few weeks. He did have his head scanned while he was at Leahurst and found nothing abnormal so I know it isn't a bone issue (hopefully). The dentist is coming next weekend although he has had his teeth looked at 3 times by the vet now.

He has regular physio but I'm wondering whether it is worth getting an osteopath to come and look at him? There is one that is highly recommended in our area so I don't know whether to ask him to come and give him the once over to just make sure it isn't anything making him uncomfortable (also to see if there are any causes for the chomping!)

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

Emfen, thank you, I miss him so much but I have to say that it's a huge relief not to have the constant worry - I had researched and tried as much as I could and it's only now that I realise how much of a toll it had taken on me. Seeing him in so much pain and being so helpless was horrendous.

I hope your boy is reacting as he does due to an allergy that the Cavalesse can help. I agree with hand feeding him if a bucket feed is what triggers his symptoms.
At least you've already had his head scanned!
I would definitely try the osteopath - everything about head shaking is trial & error, you've nothing to lose & at least you know that that's another thing you've tried & ruled out (or it works)!!
If he only does it when eating a hard feed I wonder if it's something in the food that he's allergic to....?
At least he only does it at tea time and shows no sign of it at any other time but it must be miserable for him poor lad!

 

[emfen1305]

Emfen, thank you, I miss him so much but I have to say that it's a huge relief not to have the constant worry - I had researched and tried as much as I could and it's only now that I realise how much of a toll it had taken on me. Seeing him in so much pain and being so helpless was horrendous.

I hope your boy is reacting as he does due to an allergy that the Cavalesse can help. I agree with hand feeding him if a bucket feed is what triggers his symptoms.
At least you've already had his head scanned!
I would definitely try the osteopath - everything about head shaking is trial & error, you've nothing to lose & at least you know that that's another thing you've tried & ruled out (or it works)!!
If he only does it when eating a hard feed I wonder if it's something in the food that he's allergic to....?
At least he only does it at tea time and shows no sign of it at any other time but it must be miserable for him poor lad!

From reading your earlier posts it definitely sounds like you made the right choice for both of you in the end, I cant imagine what it must have been like for you, seeing Toby do it for less that 5 mins really upsets me!

The Cavalesse did seem to work last time so I am hoping it does this time so I can go down the blood test route and see, it is just very odd as he is totally normal then all of sudden his head will shoot up and thats it, the bucket ends up at the back of the stable food is being flicked everwhere. Sometimes he does it from the start and sometimes he can be most of the way through before he has an episode. I have tried lots of different feeds but the only consistent thing in the last 2 years has been the topspec lite balancer, maybe i could try taking that out for a week or so and see if it makes a difference. I think I will get the osteopath, as you said there is nothing to lose. It is such a shame for him as he loves his bucket and even licks his lips when he sees it coming (potentially anthropomorphising him a little here but he definitely does haha!)

 

[Clare85]

emfen1305 - I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I think it could be worth having a specialist dentist look at your boy. If he is only head shaking whilst eating then there could be some pain in his mouth somewhere.

Whilst we were at Langford with our pony earlier this month, Veronica Roberts showed us several videos of horses who headshake for various reasons. One of these was a young horse who would only do it whilst eating his hay. I can't remember his exact issue, but it was a severe dental problem that had been missed by the local vet.

I hope you find a cause for it. It's horrible to watch

ETA - just read that you are having dental specialist out next week. Let us know how it goes.

 

[spotty_pony2]

Thank you guys, I am hoping so too. Tonight is his first night without the nosenet on all night since about November! He has been symptom free for four days now and has had the nosenet off during the day quite a bit too so I'm holding my breath about tonight but fingers crossed. I've ridden him twice this week with the nosenet on and he is feeling very relaxed and pretty much how he used too feel. If all goes ok tonight, the next step is to try riding without the nosenet.

emfen1305 - Have you had a chiropractor look at your horse? Could be a TMJ issue (which also causes hock problems)

 

[Clare85]

Thank you guys, I am hoping so too. Tonight is his first night without the nosenet on all night since about November! He has been symptom free for four days now and has had the nosenet off during the day quite a bit too so I'm holding my breath about tonight but fingers crossed. I've ridden him twice this week with the nosenet on and he is feeling very relaxed and pretty much how he used too feel. If all goes ok tonight, the next step is to try riding without the nosenet.

emfen1305 - Have you had a chiropractor look at your horse? Could be a TMJ issue (which also causes hock problems)

Keeping everything crossed for you x

 

[spotty_pony2]

Update - after three courses of antibiotics, the abscess has cleared up. I can ride him symptom free! But there is still some head shaking in the stable without the nose net - potentially caused by nerve damage or irritated mucous membranes. The next step is to get him out 24/7 hopefully in the next couple of weeks to see if this stops the head shaking. Could it be habitual now I am wondering, as he can be head shaking before I ride and then I get on and he is fine. :\

 

[Dazed'n'confused]

Update - after three courses of antibiotics, the abscess has cleared up. I can ride him symptom free! But there is still some head shaking in the stable without the nose net - potentially caused by nerve damage or irritated mucous membranes. The next step is to get him out 24/7 hopefully in the next couple of weeks to see if this stops the head shaking. Could it be habitual now I am wondering, as he can be head shaking before I ride and then I get on and he is fine. :\

That's great news (mainly) - you must be relieved. Let's hope that when he's out 24/7 it breaks the habit...
At least he is a lot happier than he was.

 

[GTorque]

Appreciate this is an old thread but a new problem for me. My boy who I’ve had less than a year is struggling with head shaking. He doesn’t do it it in the indoor school, maybe the odd twitch, but bad in the outdoor or hacking. He tries his best to concentrate and work through it but after ridden work, is really struggling, desperately rubbing and wanting to bury his nose, even slicing his face open twice to need stitches he can be that bad.

Have tried nose nets, hayfever tablets and supplements to no avail. He’s had everything checked, teeth, back etc.

The vet has been out this week and scoped him, endoscopy and lameness work up. There were a couple of issues which showed up after flexion test but vet said that they are secondary to his head and current quality of life.

Vet wants to send him for CT scans and PENS but have discovered my insurance won’t cover it so need either some reassurance that there is some success from the treatment as I’m completely at a loss what to do for him?