Pentathlon anybody? Showjumping schedule...

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Shadowdancing

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Just FYI

Modern Pentathlon is underway. Fencing today. Tomorrow is women's jumping around 7.30pm our time. Men's is 7.30pm Saturday.

Lets hope there's a reasonable standard of riding, I seem to remember one group I watched barely able to stay on...!
 
I remember watching the SJ from London and the standard of riding was at times terrible and I felt so sorry for all those who had volunteered their horses being booted in the guts with incompetent riders wearing spurs and carrying whips, the vast majority just went round far too fast in no rhythm or balance in a point and shoot manner hauling the horses around in the mouth. The standout moment was when a horse reared up and went over backwards almost crushing the rider, the guy amazingly got back on and did his round running out of control and deep into almost every fence booting about 10 down. Shocking to watch. I'll give it a go and see if the standard has improved!
 
Better than the ones 4 years precious to that, I actually could not watch on that occasion.

I have been talking to OH, wondering what horses Rio will provide. I know in London the horses were rigorously vetted for suitability, I seem to recollect they had been jumped around those fences, just because of the ugly scenes before. With other riders on they all jumped beautifully.

I was wondering if Rio was going to be as rigorous?

I also wondered if either the SJ standard should be lowered (as in height/spread), or if the contestants should have to attain a specified level of competition experience before doing a pentathlon on other people's horses.
 
Will definitely be interesting to see the standard of horses in Rio. A friend of mine was a volunteer in the Penthalon stables at London and the horses were of a very good quality, and merely showed up the lower lever of riding on display.

I wonder how many have riding as their worst sport? I don't seem to remember Steph Cook riding badly but I swear she was a rider first, pentathlete second as it were.
 
Dunlin said:
I remember watching the SJ from London and the standard of riding was at times terrible and I felt so sorry for all those who had volunteered their horses being booted in the guts with incompetent riders wearing spurs and carrying whips, the vast majority just went round far too fast in no rhythm or balance in a point and shoot manner hauling the horses around in the mouth. The standout moment was when a horse reared up and went over backwards almost crushing the rider, the guy amazingly got back on and did his round running out of control and deep into almost every fence booting about 10 down. Shocking to watch. I'll give it a go and see if the standard has improved!
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Just seen the part you referenced here Dunlin, probably the worst incident I saw in London Pentathlon. It's at about 1.26 if anyone wants to see what happened- reins just too tight in a very busy arena?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7Psi5qSMI
 
teapot said:
According to the Modern Pentathlon GB website there's a riding certificate that they must have signed off pre competition http://www2.pentathlongb.org/resources/Senior_Riding_Certificate_-_Final_1466429174_725724.pdf
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Wow I never knew that, very interesting! I wonder why it goes so wrong for some... I have to say looking back at it there are some very nice rides as well as some scary ones, and fair play to them all- I'm a nervous jumper and I'd never go round a course that size- how big are the fences anyway?
 
teapot said:
Will definitely be interesting to see the standard of horses in Rio. A friend of mine was a volunteer in the Penthalon stables at London and the horses were of a very good quality, and merely showed up the lower lever of riding on display.

I wonder how many have riding as their worst sport? I don't seem to remember Steph Cook riding badly but I swear she was a rider first, pentathlete second as it were.
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I was reading that most British pentathletes start off in Pony Club doing tetrathlon and add fencing later on so they probably are riders first and pentathletes second. If that's the case I always find it a bit odd that the riding phase of tetrathlon is XC and not show jumping, but I suppose SJ is easier to do outside of tetrathlon competitions than XC.
 
Shadowdancing said:
Wow I never knew that, very interesting! I wonder why it goes so wrong for some... I have to say looking back at it there are some very nice rides as well as some scary ones, and fair play to them all- I'm a nervous jumper and I'd never go round a course that size- how big are the fences anyway?
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Obviously that's the team GB requirement, I assume it's expected of other nations? Course height wise is 1m20 at senior level.
 
Shadowdancing said:
Just seen the part you referenced here Dunlin, probably the worst incident I saw in London Pentathlon. It's at about 1.26 if anyone wants to see what happened- reins just too tight in a very busy arena?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7Psi5qSMI
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I forgot how bad it was!!!

It's the Korean rider after the horse at 1hr 26 mins riding Shearwater Oscar, poor poor horse. Yes his reins were very short and you can see him actually DIG his spurs into the side of the horse quite hard when he's in the 'start box'. Short reins telling the horse to stop, dug in the sides with spurs to go, it was only ever going one way. The horse was so honest to jump those fences when he got back on with the terrible strides and flat out pace. I hope Oscars owner managed to get his confidence back after that experience.
 
Dunlin said:
I forgot how bad it was!!!

It's the Korean rider after the horse at 1hr 26 mins riding Shearwater Oscar, poor poor horse. Yes his reins were very short and you can see him actually DIG his spurs into the side of the horse quite hard when he's in the 'start box'. Short reins telling the horse to stop, dug in the sides with spurs to go, it was only ever going one way. The horse was so honest to jump those fences when he got back on with the terrible strides and flat out pace. I hope Oscars owner managed to get his confidence back after that experience.
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Same here, watching that again I felt the same anger and indignation on behalf of the horse. HOW/WHY was it expected to continue after the rearing incident? It might not have been obviously lame but could have sustained a more subtle pelvic injury or bruised hock/leg from hitting the floral display. Hardly time for a proper vet check!! and yes, the poor thing did try but with absolutely no help from a rider who had no idea of placing him/finding a stride. How did his owner feel, watching that? :( Hoping for much better things this time...
 
annagain said:
I was reading that most British pentathletes start off in Pony Club doing tetrathlon and add fencing later on so they probably are riders first and pentathletes second. If that's the case I always find it a bit odd that the riding phase of tetrathlon is XC and not show jumping, but I suppose SJ is easier to do outside of tetrathlon competitions than XC.
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Tetrathlon at Pony Club is geared towards ensuring that the riding phase is challenging and the XC level required can be quite technically challenging. The challenge element of it in the Pentathlon is the fact that it is an unfamiliar horse therefore SJ is definitely the safer option.

Would love to see them shake it up in the Pentathlon and make them do a prelim/novice dressage test first then followed by SJ round. Would mean that riding ability would be tested as well as the ability of a horse to jump irrespective of the numpty on board.
 
I always dislike the sj part of Olympic pent. They all sit t far back, heavy and handsy. They either kick too much so horse is flat or not enough and poor horses get dropped at the fence.
1.20 really isn't that high to jump round nicely if you get a good canter going. They all just get sooo flat!
I got a bit upset at some of the riding when you noticed horse had a Cheltenham in but it was being yanked into fences - I'm amazed half of them left any of the jumps up at all at London.
Do you think they get lessons? ;)
 
I really really wish they'd change it to a dressage test instead of SJ.

With all the animal welfare attention the equestrian sports get, why doesn't this get wider attention??
 
Jo_x said:
I really really wish they'd change it to a dressage test instead of SJ.

With all the animal welfare attention the equestrian sports get, why doesn't this get wider attention??
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or they would make riders ride something similar to a longer version of a WH ride out first showing w/t/c on both reins as well as a few basic movements and if riders are given a certain amount (say 20, with 5 points being given for loss of balance/position, 10 points for loss of control if the horse changes gait once, second time it is a straight 20 points, using spurs or unnecessary aids is 5 points etc) of riding penalties in this part, they are not allowed to jump and have the max. amount of jumping penalties added to their score. It would mean riders at least would have to be able to ride w/t/c proficiently before they can jump. I think they should lower the course height, so it's a mix of 80cm-1m fences and any rider who falls off should be eliminated from that round and given the max. score, rather than being allowed to remount.
 
The format almost allows for someone with relatively poor riding skills to still give it a go as long as they are good at everything else- fences knocked down even falls, you just get penalised, you can still get back on and keep going! I'm not wrong there am I? Could have misinterpreted...
 
I think it is always tricky. We do see the Pent SJ after watching the best in the world Event, Dressage and SJ. Added to that they are all on there own horses that they have trained for a long time. Added to this we see ourselves on horses we have trained for a long time.

I can speak from experience, I ride my own horse up to BE Novice. But also do Uni riding teams, which has the same format of riding a horse for 5 mins then doing a jump round. I know I have got and some horses and had a shocking round, and I am like what happened there! I have also done it for 2 years now, and have never finished a round and thought that was as good as riding my own horse.

These pent riders have to get used to a horse and then go into the Olympic arena and look amazing! I am not total condoning the standard of riding, but I understand the difficulty of getting on a unknown horse and making it go without going to natural defensive riding. Added to this, the competitors have to train of other disciplines and finding riding schools to will provide 1.20m horses is very tricky. So you are left having your own horse/s which then leaves you getting used to that, which does not help getting on new horses.

Hope this makes sense, and well done for getting to the end!
 
Shadowdancing said:
The format almost allows for someone with relatively poor riding skills to still give it a go as long as they are good at everything else- fences knocked down even falls, you just get penalised, you can still get back on and keep going! I'm not wrong there am I? Could have misinterpreted...
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No you're reading it right. You get eliminated for missing a fence but falling off isn't an issue...

bluebellfreddy said:
These pent riders have to get used to a horse and then go into the Olympic arena and look amazing! I am not total condoning the standard of riding, but I understand the difficulty of getting on a unknown horse and making it go without going to natural defensive riding. Added to this, the competitors have to train of other disciplines and finding riding schools to will provide 1.20m horses is very tricky. So you are left having your own horse/s which then leaves you getting used to that, which does not help getting on new horses.
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It's a fair point and having seen BUCS comps it is a test to get on something you don't know 20 minutes before a course, especially when it's a course of 1m20. It's a test when you're a competent rider, let alone i you're not!

I just find it odd that it appears, maybe Rio will prove us wrong, that most MP athlete's worst sport or at least not their best sport, is the one where they could kill themselves in. It's not like they're popping around 2ft 6 course with a handful of people watching.
 
Yes I agree I think it should be changed to a dressage test.
I feel for them as rode for a uni team as well and it was hard just sitting on a strange horse for 20 mins then doing a round of jumps but a lot of them do look like they are winging it! Which seems a bit unfair on the horses.
 
teapot said:
It's a fair point and having seen BUCS comps it is a test to get on something you don't know 20 minutes before a course, especially when it's a course of 1m20. It's a test when you're a competent rider, let alone i you're not!

I just find it odd that it appears, maybe Rio will prove us wrong, that most MP athlete's worst sport or at least not their best sport, is the one where they could kill themselves in. It's not like they're popping around 2ft 6 course with a handful of people watching.
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I can understand that some nations don't have the same access to riding and horses as others that compete in the pentathlon, but it does sort of bring the question of if the riders are not able to train properly for all 5 events, should they really be competing in a pentathlon?

I know some of them aren't natural riders, but it's still not an excuse imo. I thought in the London games, especially in the women, it became very obvious who knew how to ride and looked as if they must get regular lessons rather than those who looked as if they had had a few lessons once and just hoped they stayed on. If I remember rightly, there was an Irish girl in London who had a lovely round in the showjumping phase. She looked competent, well balanced and like she knew at least how to ride into a fence and keep her position rather than aiming horse at fence and holding on like some of the others did.

I am going to be watching tonight, even though it is hard to watch, just to see what the Rio horses they provide are like as well as if the riding has improved at all.
 
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