People taking horses' behaviour personally...

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merliebug

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Does anyone else find that people anthropomorphise waaaaay too much when it comes to horses?

Bit of a rant, but for example if a horse kicks another in the field, the owner of the 'victim' will take it out on the owner of the perpetrator?! (As if they have any control over the situation!) Or the same in a yard situation leading other horses behind those who are tied up.

Seems like some people forget that horses are horses and that's what they do, which is why we're supposed to take care and not get complacent.

Sorry, I don't post on here often but it's interesting to get the perspective of other horsey people! Sorry for the mini-rant.
 
Two of my favourite memories


"Shhhh she will hear you"
"huh?"
"I haven't told her (mare) yet that I am going on holiday, she will get really upset"

and

"My mare doesn't have back shoes on, she feels really vulnerable as she knows she can get hurt and not retaliate"

and

"She (mare) tried to kick me. She knows I am pregnant and is jealous so keeps trying to kill my baby"

Interestingly I have just noticed 3 different owners all with mares.......perhaps it's a mare owner thing lol. I have a mare.......oh heck :D
 
Yes and its blooming annoying. I can apologise if my horses are being gits but can't change it!. Our new YO is not like that though (thank heavens) so when she tried to turn out my old mare (aka Queen of the yard) with a newbie and my mare behaved like a total cow, she didn't have a go at me! retrieved newbie and crossed that combination off the list. Although I did hear myself whining "shes never done that before" (well she hasn't!) and as for people getting hurt because they walk a strange horse up behind another - absolutely no sympathy. Its lesson No 1 in basic horsemanship.
 
I think horses kicking each other in fields is a potentialy murky subject.

If your horse gets kicked and has 100 years of boxrest and a mortgage worth of vet bills you might generally be feeling a bit edgy. Of course your sensible self KNOWS that it's just one of those things but it can take a while for that to come through.

Equally, if your horse has kicked another one and caused a catastrophic injury you're probably feeling a bit guilty and defensive, of course it isn't really YOUR fault, but I think it's natural to feel that way.

Also, in some cases yard politics play a role and facts/nature don't come into it. At my last yard it was so predictable you could almost express it as an equation. The less popular you were with the YO the more of a bullying, fence wrecking horror your horse would become.
 
I think when you have a horse with a strong personality it's difficult NOT to anthropomorphise! I used to have a lesson on a Tuesday, and almost every week without fail Dylan would have pulled a shoe off. He did it twice while I was watching. You're telling me that wasn't deliberate?! :p

I'll be honest - I do blame the owner of the horse who kicked Dylan and broke his leg. They'd been out in the paddock together before with no problems, I asked if it was alright to put Dylan in with him, she said that was fine. After he got booted I got him out, and was told by about half a dozen people that that horse had been being aggressive for a couple of weeks and nobody bothered telling me. So I have a big, big grudge about that. And I feel it's justified.
 
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Kicking in the field is a tricky one - there will always be scuffles but if you have an animal that does not socialise well and is best suited for individual turnout, and this is well known, I think people are justified in getting annoyed if they end up with huge vet bills. My YO has had to give someone their marching orders in the past becuase an animal they owned was constantly starting fights in the field with every animal he was put out with. Animals were coming in every day bitten, kicked and bleeding, including my timid youngster and people were getting caught up in fights when they were trying to catch their horses.

But I do know what you mean. The best I heard was from an a tearful, hopelessly outhorsed older lady who sobbed, "Doesn't he know how much money I spend on him every month and how hard I struggle to pay the bills?" Erm, no love, I reckon he doesn't have a clue!
 
Im like this with my new one at moment when i met him he was at meat market skin and bone standing knee high in his own poo is he gratefull of his nice clean stable breaskfast and dinner every day is he heck still rears at my head sometimes must say i take this personally who the heck does he think he is
 
I do it with my dogs, and until you meet my dog i cant explain just how human she is.

like if i leave her at home, as soon as she hears the car door slam, she runs off upstairs and poo's in my bedroom.

she is completely housetrained, this literally only happens in those circumstances, like mother in law looked after our son when we went on holiday. the dog pooped religiously in my bedroom, my side of the bed, every evening as if to say Feck you!

i take that personally, especially as the cow stands and watches me scrubbing it off the carpet with the smuggest look on the planet.


cant say much about horses, but certain ones i have known have totally been aware of what they are doing, and are extremely human like. my horse has a complete range of humanised looks, and seems vry much to understand alot of human behaviour.
 
I do find people credit horses with far more brain power than they have! Usually they think horses have a motive for their behaviour when infact they are just a bag full of instinct - yes they have the ability to learn but it is pretty basic stuff on an intellectual level!!

We lost a horse recently due to a fractured skull. He came in from the field injured and no one saw anything. The number of folk who asked if I knew which horse had kicked him! To me it did not matter - horses do these things and pin pointing a culprit would not have brought Toby back to us. It could have happened any number of ways and was at the end of the day an accident.

A friend took his horse hunting local to the yard and was carted back by said horse. The explanation made me chuckle - apparently the horse's back was sore and he thought "Uh oh a days hunting I am not doing this it will hurt me more" so bolted home. I think it more likely that rider and horse were a complete mismatch - the horse was anxious, the rider was nervous and the horse ran for saftey from a situation he was not used to. The horse was sold a few months later and is doing very well with his new owner. The friend has bought a motor bike!
 
I don't know about horses but I take the weathers' behaviour personally. Is better now but a couple of weeks ago it seemed that the sun shone all day while I was at work and on journey home but started to rain just as I got in my car to drive to the farm!! And again at the weekend.

Doesn't it know how much money I spend on having horses....!!!
 
I have been at the receiving of being 'the accused' when another horse was kicked... The worst part was they didn't have proof it was my horse that done it.
 
I have many times been the person with the horse that does everything that ever happens, just because he is a stallion, dopey git that he is though could not fight his way out of a paper bag, and baby sits all the under 3 yr old from october till feb.
But at my last yard there was a horrid rig and it was always attacking my boy, stallion would have chunks out of him everywhere, but when the fence was broken it was so my horse that done it.
Yes i did move and dopey horse is happy and dopey again with no chunks missing
 
I am very much the opposite.

Take for example yesterday.
Bringing him in from the field i offered him a few small treats in my hand. Being a youngster and enthusiastic he was having trouble getting them (they were small!) so i used my middle finger to push one into his mouth. He then proceeded to clamp down on my finger :eek: he held on for a few second before letting go.

Other people on my yard would be f'ing and swearing at the horse for 'biting them' - but i knew it was my fault and felt my boy deserved no blame at all.

He doesnt do things to spite me, he doesnt hold grudges, he doesnt comfort me when i'm sad - he just displays wonderful natural horse behaviour that i love to see. Even if he is 'grumpy' i respect his right to have a grumpy day, because i know he will have to put up with my grumpy days too!! :D
 
Recently very sadly one of the youngsters in the field was PTS because she was kicked in the head by another horse. Horrible horrible accident, totally unavoidable and just a sad situation.

I get to the yard to have people flying over to me 'who do you think did it?' 'oh bet you think Kane might have done it cos he's got shoes on and was in the field last night?' 'I don't want to put my horse out incase it happens again!!'

FFS it was an accident. No horse did it on purpose, they didn't go out that night with the intention of killing another horse, it just happened.

A situation that was distressing and unhappy was made worse by silly people trying to pass blame and make people feel even guiltier than they already did. :mad:
 
jsr said:
Recently very sadly one of the youngsters in the field was PTS because she was kicked in the head by another horse. Horrible horrible accident, totally unavoidable and just a sad situation.

I get to the yard to have people flying over to me 'who do you think did it?' 'oh bet you think Kane might have done it cos he's got shoes on and was in the field last night?' 'I don't want to put my horse out incase it happens again!!'

FFS it was an accident. No horse did it on purpose, they didn't go out that night with the intention of killing another horse, it just happened.

A situation that was distressing and unhappy was made worse by silly people trying to pass blame and make people feel even guiltier than they already did. :mad:
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See there is an example of yard politics influencing how the natural behaviour of horses is interpreted. Same with Seraphim and Hollysmum's experiences.
 
My horses appear to be in training for the circus, they have devised several ways of escaping from their fields but none of them will do it while being watched. In fact 'princess' Jay would wait until I'd closed the gate and turned around then I would hear the thunder of hooves behind me, a moments silence followed immediately by Jay 'appearing' next to me on the other side of the fence, only when my back was turned however would she perform this magic trick! When they do things like this it's very hard to think of them as anything other than oversized toddlers!
 
How true!
I was previously at a livery yard where my poor Spanish boy got the blame for everything! no one would ride in the arena with me becuase 'he frightened their horses with his movement!' - oh, would that be the fact that he collects well and doesnt put a foot wrong? He was blamed for bringing mares into season (he is not a stallion), He was blamed for making horses 'misbehave' whilst on a hack - odd becuase he doesnt turn a hair at anything or get excited, and best of all, I got berated at a horse show because the competetior in a working hunter class's horse looked at mine!
He has got to be one of the mildest mannered horses going! Mind you, I think its the riders with the problems, not the horses!
 
When ever it has been one of my horses who have done the damage I always apologise, I know I've got no control over what they do in the field but as they are my reponsiblity I do feel some sense of responsiblity for their actions.
One of my horses was very badly kicked once, it was touch & go for a few days, the horse who kicked her was a nice mare who wasn't usually nasty, so I didn't feel any anomosity towards her or her owners. They did offer to contribute towards the vet bill which I really appreciated but I didn't take them up on their offer, when the vet rang to say that they thought she was going to pull through, they were the first people I rang as I knew how upset they were.
She spent a few months being turned out separately while she recovered but as soon as she was well enough I put her back in with the group, including the mare who'd kicked her & they were fine.
Another time we had a really aggresive mare turned out with ours, after several nasty incidents, the rest us got together & asked the YO to remove the nasty creature, so she was put on her own in a starvation paddock. The mares owner was royally peed off about it but she knew how nasty she was yet still bought her to a livery yard with shared turn out. So in that case I did blame the owner for her horse's behaviour, as she was very selfish & wasn't in the least concerned for the safety of others.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
I am very much the opposite.

Take for example yesterday.
Bringing him in from the field i offered him a few small treats in my hand. Being a youngster and enthusiastic he was having trouble getting them (they were small!) so i used my middle finger to push one into his mouth. He then proceeded to clamp down on my finger :eek: he held on for a few second before letting go.

Other people on my yard would be f'ing and swearing at the horse for 'biting them' - but i knew it was my fault and felt my boy deserved no blame at all.

He doesnt do things to spite me, he doesnt hold grudges, he doesnt comfort me when i'm sad - he just displays wonderful natural horse behaviour that i love to see. Even if he is 'grumpy' i respect his right to have a grumpy day, because i know he will have to put up with my grumpy days too!! :D
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Bravo - I wish more people had your very sensible, down-to-earth attitude!
 
Paint Me Proud said:
I am very much the opposite.

Take for example yesterday.
Bringing him in from the field i offered him a few small treats in my hand. Being a youngster and enthusiastic he was having trouble getting them (they were small!) so i used my middle finger to push one into his mouth. He then proceeded to clamp down on my finger :eek: he held on for a few second before letting go.

Other people on my yard would be f'ing and swearing at the horse for 'biting them' - but i knew it was my fault and felt my boy deserved no blame at all.

He doesnt do things to spite me, he doesnt hold grudges, he doesnt comfort me when i'm sad - he just displays wonderful natural horse behaviour that i love to see. Even if he is 'grumpy' i respect his right to have a grumpy day, because i know he will have to put up with my grumpy days too!! :D
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I had a similar experience with my youngster last summer... She got my finger thinking it was a bit of the apple I had been feeding her... Somehow managed to open her mouth and get it out before walking and screaming my head off with the pain... :o
 
My YO is dreadful for anthropomorphizing. In fact, the term might have been invented for her!
1. My horse got a bit colicky after receiving some medicine for her joints - "she's trying to tell you 'mummy mummy I don't want any more treatment, I just want to be let retire" - erm, no, she was trying to tell me her tummy hurt a bit but she didn't know why. (She's absolutely fine now with vastly improved joints, after I went through a few days of hell wondering if I was doing the right thing).
2. My horse was stood out on the yard with her massage pad on as I was assisting the vet with another horse. She was watching us intently. I commented that I wondered whether she was keeping an eye on the vet or watching me. YO said no, she was feeling embarrassed about the silly looking massage pad and wanted it off!
 
Wow, I didn't really expect any replies to my slightly random first post, but it's really interesting to read them!

I agree with virtually everything you've all said - we're all guilty of anthropomorphising to some extent, like going on holiday and thinking that your horse will hate you... no, he won't hate you, he'll just wonder why another human is bringing his food. Or maybe he won't, maybe he'll just like the food! Of course I treat my horse like a pet, not a machine, so I know they all have strong personalities and quirks, but it's when people think horses do anything with intent or logic. Horses don't kick each other for any other reason than because they feel provoked, intimidated or want to assert themselves - if that results in a vet bill then sure, it's awful, but no-one's to blame. And yes, you always should apologise if yours inflicts damage, but that's as far as it should go.

Someone said about having a perpetual kicker-troublemaker, and of course that's different - that's a risk to everyone and should be addressed if there is injury upon injury caused by one particular horse. But for example this morning when my boy was tied up outside his box with only a small space behind him, he kicked out at someone who tried to squeeze past... now that to me is rational - I was trying to move him out of the way and he's been on several weeks' box rest, so why am I getting evil looks? He belong to me but that's as much control I have over his instincts!

People are funny though, I do love the 'who kicked him? who bit him?' thing - like anything could possibly matter less! Surely, 'how is he, how long will recovery take' would be slightly more useful questions!

Thanks all, you made me laugh with some of your tales. Now can we all leave work and enjoy the sunshine please?!!!!!
 
I second the leave work to enjoy sunshine thing but have at least half an hour left.

My old dear is 31. The funniest thing she does is if you tell her off and she hasn't done much wrong she will stand on your foot. How long she stands there will depend on how loud you shouted and how wrong you are.

She has NEVER trodden on my foot except when I have told her off and never when she has deserved it. I discovered this in my teenage angst years when I stricter with her, I am much better trained now and do not raise my voice but my teenage Sharer has been trodden on for raising her voice to move over when she was refusing. She was refusing to move for a reason. I don't know the reason but there must have been one or she would not have trodden on Sharer!! (I don't mean scream at her just a frustrated slightly raised voice)

Yes I do attribute a lot to my horses! B hates physical contact from strangers, genuinly and I swear it's because she is shy! She doesn't appear nervous or scared of them just screws her face up and flinches if they touch her. Never been hit or mistreated!
 
merliebug said:
Wow, I didn't really expect any replies to my slightly random first post, but it's really interesting to read them!

I agree with virtually everything you've all said - we're all guilty of anthropomorphising to some extent, like going on holiday and thinking that your horse will hate you... no, he won't hate you, he'll just wonder why another human is bringing his food. QUOTE]

OK, I have a confession to make - I feel guilty when I can't get to the yard! The kids pony doesn't give a stuff but I worry my youngster and I won't bond f I am not up there every day. Despite the fact I pay a fortune in part livery for their every need to be attended to and he is quite happy to see me when I am at the yard and shows no sign of having missed me. Stupid, isn't it?

I'll get my coat. :D
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Indiat - I feel like that too! My mare is away for training and I go everyday to watch her session and pamper her a bit. The trainer says "you know you don't have to come every day, don't you?" But I feel like I'm missing out if I don't and in a funny way, I worry she might like the trainer better than me. God, I'm a saddo!
 
We used to have an old woman with a welsh on one yard. We used to have all the fields open. Once the hay was taken off the hay field, that would be opened too. The day they opened it, some if the horses went though and others stayed in the other fields. So I told this woman the hay field was open. She wanted to know if I had gone and told her pony it was open!!! As i hadn't she walked down the fields, spoke to the pony and said the field was open, obviously he understood ever word!!
 
Aww Dibs, I'd no idea that's what happened to Dylan. I'd be literally raging, whether anyone else considered that justified or not. Horses will be horses and accidents will happen, but to fail to inform someone that their horse has been aggressive, be it a new thing or not, is negligent and irresponsible. Do onto others as you should have them do onto you and all that.

I think it's okay to anthropomorphise horses light-heartedly, but not to the detriment of understanding them. It's fine to describe their behaviour in a cute way, but not if it's assumed as truth, especially to the point of ignoring facts. E.g. 'that horse hates me - he bites me in his stable and bucks me off, but to everyone else he's sweet as pie' when in fact, he's got a bad back and as no one else comes to their stable door with a pile of tack, the horse has no reason to give the message he's too sore to be ridden to anyone else.
 
My horse has developed a lovely habit of rolling when I go down the field to catch her. She comes so far up the field, looks at me with a smug look, lies down and has a jolly good roll in the mud, then comes up to get her headcollar on to come in. I am starting to take this personally!
 
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