People Who Can't Afford To Look After Horses?

merlin100 said:
Hi folks,

I've noted with some interest comments being made regarding people who can't afford to keep horses.

Without being pedantic, exactly how do we define these people and what criteria is applied to them?:confused: And no, I'm not trolling. It's a legitimate question. There's such thing as a daft question, just a daft answer.:rolleyes:

Regards,

Ian.
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Without being pedantic, it depends on what you call "keeping horses", Ian.

Without having defined a standard in your OP, peoples answers will be based on what they define as "keeping horses". Some will be used to strict regimented yard routines and some will have land at home and keep horses as close to nature intended as possible.

To some, basics are:- a field.
To others:- grazing, stable, food, water, vaccinations, worming, vet care, teeth and feet.
To most:- all the above plus rugs, clipping, shoes, magnetic therapy, massage, physio, insurance, boots, matching kits and rhinestones on most things.

Are you defining a lifestyle or a hobby and by "afford" do you mean with their own money or money provided by someone else (parents or public!).

I've got some answers prepared but I just need to know where the goalposts are :)
 
mytwofriends said:
I will refrain from spelling it out in black and white as it might appear "un PC", but it concerns claiming multiple benefits and not prioritising what they're spent on.
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Oh thank you very much! I claim multiple benefits - have done for years (PIP, ESA, and SDP if you were wondering, all disability benefits) - I practically starved so my animals were fed but still couldn't afford things like a chiropractor, or insurance/vet bill. It's why I sold up but for a period of time I was one of those people being described in this thread.
 
Snowy Celandine said:
Why are you asking OP? Are you struggling to afford your horse(s)?
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I thought it would be a good, thought provoking topic. I used to think all the horsey world was snobby, elitish and full of millionaires. I quickly found the opposite to be true, it's filled with hard working people whom are often skint from giving the best to their horses and ponies.

No, I'm not struggling. If that happened, I'd reluctantly sell. I'd rather have a happy horse with a happy home, than it become a welfare problem.

I had thought about getting a pony for several years, weighing up the various pros and cons - age, type, finances, etc... I had worked as a YA for a while and had did several stints over the years with the RDA, so wasn't a complete novice.:wink3:
 
merlin100 said:
I thought it would be a good, thought provoking topic. I used to think all the horsey world was snobby, elitish and full of millionaires. I quickly found the opposite to be true, it's filled with hard working people whom are often skint from giving the best to their horses and ponies.

No, I'm not struggling. If that happened, I'd reluctantly sell. I'd rather have a happy horse with a happy home, than it become a welfare problem.

I had thought about getting a pony for several years, weighing up the various pros and cons - age, type, finances, etc... I had worked as a YA for a while and had did several stints over the years with the RDA, so wasn't a complete novice.:wink3:
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Well it is an interesting question but the parameters are too wide for it to have a coherent answer (in my humble opinion :o ) because, as tallyho! has pointed out, the standards of horse-keeping that people consider to be 'normal' differ widely to start with.
 
Mince Pie said:
Oh thank you very much! I claim multiple benefits - have done for years (PIP, ESA, and SDP if you were wondering, all disability benefits) - I practically starved so my animals were fed but still couldn't afford things like a chiropractor, or insurance/vet bill. It's why I sold up but for a period of time I was one of those people being described in this thread.
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Quite,
an can you only have a horse if you have say 50-100k odd in the bank ready to pay for it's lifetime? Given that stuff happens, people get sick, lose their income etc etc and once your horse gets to a certain age or brokeness you have two options, you either try the best you can to ensure they don't go without or PTS, both of which are fine tbh, I don't see PTS as a welfare issue at all as some seem to.
 
Now, I'm confused too! lol

Is it a lifestyle? For me, not sure. A hobby? Certainly. The ability to "afford" means to me to cover the basics and save up a little for an unforeseen vet bill. Does that help clarify?
 
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tallyho! said:
Without being pedantic, it depends on what you call "keeping horses", Ian.

Without having defined a standard in your OP, peoples answers will be based on what they define as "keeping horses". Some will be used to strict regimented yard routines and some will have land at home and keep horses as close to nature intended as possible.

To some, basics are:- a field.
To others:- grazing, stable, food, water, vaccinations, worming, vet care, teeth and feet.
To most:- all the above plus rugs, clipping, shoes, magnetic therapy, massage, physio, insurance, boots, matching kits and rhinestones on most things.

Are you defining a lifestyle or a hobby and by "afford" do you mean with their own money or money provided by someone else (parents or public!).

I've got some answers prepared but I just need to know where the goalposts are :)
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merlin100 said:
tallyho! said:
To others:- grazing, stable, food, water, vaccinations, worming, vet care, teeth and feet.
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The above would fit the bill... Sorry, it's taken me a wee while to read through three pages of replies.
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Snowy Celandine said:
If you already know the answer I'm not sure what else you want to know? I'm getting confused now :o
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Ian's response was a reply to Tallyho's question, I think his original question still stands :)
 
Mince Pie said:
Oh thank you very much! I claim multiple benefits - have done for years (PIP, ESA, and SDP if you were wondering, all disability benefits) - I practically starved so my animals were fed but still couldn't afford things like a chiropractor, or insurance/vet bill. It's why I sold up but for a period of time I was one of those people being described in this thread.
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You're exactly NOT the kind of person I was referring to, Mince Pie. Not in the slightest.

Benefits are fabulous, and very relevant in the right circumstances. I know I wasn't clear in my post, but I was referring to benefit cheats who claim everything and anything they can possibly lay their hands on, because they feel entitled, but still have horses - and still neglect them, spending their benefits on other stuff. I know one such person and it doesn't sit well.

Sorry Mince Pie, I didn't mean to offend you.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat as Mince Pie here due to mental health problems over many years and can't work because of it (I have worked in the past), the tabloid media just makes the stigma much worse. :(

My pony keeps me sane and is my personal therapy pony. I love her to bits!:inlove:

The amount of folk who don't know me or my personal circumstances whom pass comment when they find out I've got a pony, saying "oh, how can you afford to keep it?", etc. As a new and first time owner, I find it wears me down somewhat and worries me no end, the comments I mean, not the financial reality of keeping a pony. I guess having self esteem issues gives me a really thin skin mentally. Not exactly something that I really like revealing to Joe Public on a forum...:frown3:

It can be a heavy going battle going against the nay sayers...
 
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merlin100 said:
Now, I'm confused too! lol

Is it a lifestyle? For me, not sure. A hobby? Certainly. The ability to "afford" means to me to cover the basics and save up a little for an unforeseen vet bill. Does that help clarify?
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Mm, in that case my answer would be that, for me, it's definitely a hobby and I agree that any horse owner needs to be able to afford the basics as listed in your reply to tallyho! plus rugs if horse is clipped. That's my take on being a good horse owner :) Anything less would mean I was not doing my best for my horse and I genuinely believe that no-one should have an animal of any type unless they intend giving it a good life where it stands the best chance of being happy and healthy even if it does sometimes have to do stressage or something similar rather than simply standing in a field eating grass :D
 
merlin100 said:
I'm kind of in the same boat as Mince Pie here due to mental health problems over many years and can't work because of it (I have worked in the past), the tabloid media just makes the stigma much worse. :(

My pony keeps me sane and is my personal therapy pony. I love her to bits!:inlove:

The amount of folk who don't know me or my personal circumstances whom pass comment when they find out I've got a pony, saying "oh, how can you afford to keep it?", etc. As a new and first time owner, I find it wears me down somewhat and worries me no end, the comments I mean, not the financial reality of keeping a pony. I guess having self esteem issues gives me a really thin skin mentally. Not exactly something that I really like revealing to Joe Public on a forum...:frown3:

It can be a heavy going battle going against the nay sayers...
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Why is it anyone's business? No-one need know your financial situation. If your pony helps you mentally and it's cared for, that's surely all that matters?
 
My biggest annoyance actually has to be when people say they cannot afford the vet or lessons but then go out and try and compete on a regular basis :p, but maybe just because that defies all logic to me!
 
mytwofriends said:
Why is it anyone's business? No-one need know your financial situation. If your pony helps you mentally and it's cared for, that's surely all that matters?
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Thanks for the input, it's appreciated.:smile3: I wasn't intentionally obscure with my original post, sometimes the words are in my head but don't always transfer to paper or screen too well.
 
mytwofriends said:
You're exactly NOT the kind of person I was referring to, Mince Pie. Not in the slightest.

Benefits are fabulous, and very relevant in the right circumstances. I know I wasn't clear in my post, but I was referring to benefit cheats who claim everything and anything they can possibly lay their hands on, because they feel entitled, but still have horses - and still neglect them, spending their benefits on other stuff. I know one such person and it doesn't sit well.

Sorry Mince Pie, I didn't mean to offend you.
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No worries, I admit I'm a bit quick to take offence at a benefits comment as have had a few.... negative comments over the years. You're grand sweet :)

merlin100 said:
I'm kind of in the same boat as Mince Pie here due to mental health problems over many years and can't work because of it (I have worked in the past), the tabloid media just makes the stigma much worse. :(

My pony keeps me sane and is my personal therapy pony. I love her to bits!:inlove:

The amount of folk who don't know me or my personal circumstances whom pass comment when they find out I've got a pony, saying "oh, how can you afford to keep it?", etc. As a new and first time owner, I find it wears me down somewhat and worries me no end, the comments I mean, not the financial reality of keeping a pony. I guess having self esteem issues gives me a really thin skin mentally. Not exactly something that I really like revealing to Joe Public on a forum...:frown3:

It can be a heavy going battle going against the nay sayers...
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You make some excellent comments, my MH issues are directly linked to my physical issues so slightly different, but continuous comments are wearing and do drag you down eventually. Maybe this would be some use to you? https://themighty.com/2016/08/why-i-wont-apologize-for-having-fun-while-sick/

mytwofriends said:
Why is it anyone's business? No-one need know your financial situation.
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You would be amazed at the amount of people who are under the impression that because our benefits come from their taxes, it means that they can decide what we can and can't spend our money on. I have had a lot of people make comments such as "wish I could afford to do that", "if you can afford that you're getting paid too much" etc. etc. It is highly demoralising and, as Ian (Merlin) says, the tabloid media and programmes such as Benefits Street really do not help.
 
mytwofriends said:
I will refrain from spelling it out in black and white as it might appear "un PC", but it concerns claiming multiple benefits and not prioritising what they're spent on.
Click to expand...

mytwofriends said:
Why is it anyone's business? No-one need know your financial situation. If your pony helps you mentally and it's cared for, that's surely all that matters?
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Just what I thought when I read your 1sr post, my two friends!

To answer OP, for me it's a !lifestyle, our horses are at home. They are happy, healthy, fed appropriately, stabled in bad weather, feet and teeth attended to as advised by the appropriate professionals, veterinary attention as necessary and well fitting tack. BUT they do not get unnecessary physio/chiro/rugs/bling
/matchy matchy which IMO is a complete waste of money.
They are not insured for vet fees (but 3vet visits in36hrs including out of yrs, for a colic only cost about £200) and I have no intention*on welfare grounds* of putting any of them through major surgery or prolonged boxrest. Not because I can't afford it but because I choose not to, in the horse's best interests.
 
I'm also on disability benefits due to mental health issues plus Fibromyalgia and CFS. My animals have kept me as sane as I can be.
When I lost my 6 year old daughter last year my world almost ended but I can tell you quite sincerely that I'm still here because of my fur and feathers.
Their welfare and care is everything to me and I take great pride in keeping them well. I'm by no means perfect but they will never go hungry or suffer from a lack of veterinary treatment.
 
It can also depend on the start and finish point. Start out with two good salaries, own home fully paid for own more than one pony. rwo years down the line still have a roof over your head no salaries and still have more than one pony. You might say well sell the ponies but they are ancient, dangerous or difficult to ride so what do you do. PTS all of them, Keep them providing all they need to keep them on a day to day basis but not have money in the pot for emergencies, DO less for yourself and manage your finances so they get their needs met but again nothing for emergencies or any other alternative.
We are in this position. the ponies only really have one option if our income goes down anymore and that is PTS but while I have breath they will only go that way if they cannot be fed, have feet done, or will suffer in any way so yes PTS would be for financial reasons. Not every horse is suitable for rehoming even in a gift and to be honest I would hate to gift any one of them and not be in control of their future as I feel that at least is my responsibility
 
Theocat said:
People keep dogs for different reasons. I love my horse, but I have her to do a job as a riding animal. Different relationship. It's just silly to compare animals with children. I am at peace with my view. Yes, I have considered it.

If you can't tell the difference between "prioritise" and "afford" I'm not sure you'll get much out of this discussion. I can afford the costs of my horse. If she was unrideable, I would still have the money, but I would choose not to spend it. Entirely different from affordability.

Welfare is the crux of this - because affordability (or lack of it) only matters if welfare (and I'd argue the welfare of the owner, as much as of the horse) is compromised. The horse doesn't care if the owner can't afford tack, or new buckets, or stable name plates - the horse needs feed, shelter, company, some sort of freedom and health / care needs meeting, and that's it. Affordability only becomes an issue if the owner is no longer able to meet those needs.
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This is me to a T
 
I think the benefits point is slightly relevant because some of us who work can't afford horses despite dearly wishing to. So, when we are paying for other people's, that hurts.

I'm broadly in favour of the welfare state but don't really see why those not working (for however good a reason) should end up with a more luxurious lifestyle (and yes! mucking out at 6am wpuld be a luxury for me) than those working hard to feed themselves and their families.
 
My main thought on that is whether the horse is keeping them out of expensive therapy on the NHS ;). That and I also don't know anyone who has found it easy to get benefits and I assume those people go without in lots of other ways as they have different priorities. Logically it would be much better to spend my money on other things but the pony keeps me on a level of sane which is worth every penny.
 
ThursdayNext said:
I think the benefits point is slightly relevant because some of us who work can't afford horses despite dearly wishing to. So, when we are paying for other people's, that hurts.

I'm broadly in favour of the welfare state but don't really see why those not working (for however good a reason) should end up with a more luxurious lifestyle (and yes! mucking out at 6am wpuld be a luxury for me) than those working hard to feed themselves and their families.
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Believe me, I would happily swap my chronic pain, fatigue and mental fuzziness in a heartbeat! So, what do you say, take that off my hands and live on a grand total of £800 a month? When I still had my boy I scrimped on EVERYTHING, I lived on cereal and one meal a day, I wore as many as 7 layers in order not to turn the heating on, I lived in a mobile home as it was cheaper. Believe me if it could be cut back to the bare bones it was. Now, tell me, would you live like that in order to have your horse because if not, its not your finances that are the problem, its your priorities.
 
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