People who don't plait/turn out properly?

Thought I would also say mike007.... even though plaits don't make racehorses run faster they do help the stable lads and lasses win the best turned out.

Not sure if you post is tongue in cheek or not I'm guessing it is as no one could surely be that obnoxious :)
 
I am a bit acey decey here, was recently at a dressage show at Rozelle, and everyone was really well turned out, they are mostly fairly experienced riders, mostly female with a bit of make up, which I think is nice.
All the horses seemed to be plaited [not sure about the Welshies], but my boy has a really thick slightly long mane which he needs in winter [also tail is thick [his genes], I would like to present him au naturalle as he looks the part when trotting and cantering, it all flips over to the offside. He is a gelding, if entire there would be no discussion he would be left unplaited.
 
Mike007 said:
Yeah 10 / 15 of your earth minutes, seems to take me about an hour!:eek:Honestly I dont see the point except for a lawn meet.
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Mike, surely one just gets the unpaid groom (wife) to do it whilst one swans around drinking coffee? Did have to provide a step though. :p
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I've retired her now, but I always plaited my mare up myself, we only did showing twice, dressage once and showjumping we did a fair few over a year.
My plaiting is shocking, some big, some small, all a bit loose...
But as far as I see it, I tried, I wouldn't want to have someone else doing it, dont care what others think of the state of them...
 
RubysGold said:
I've retired her now, but I always plaited my mare up myself, we only did showing twice, dressage once and showjumping we did a fair few over a year.
My plaiting is shocking, some big, some small, all a bit loose...
But as far as I see it, I tried, I wouldn't want to have someone else doing it, dont care what others think of the state of them...
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For most people it is a matter of practising, it only takes twenty minutes using good elastic bands and spray stuff. Sewing in takes me ages, but I have now found blunt short needles, [tapestry needles]
One can spend a bit of time the night before splitting the mane in to loose plaits overnight.
 
It really really annoys me when I am at dressage and people make no effort whatsoever. I'm the first to admit my plaiting isn't great but I do try.
I used to write a lot for dressage judges and they have told me that if you can tell someone has made an effort it makes them feel like they are appreciated.
 
diluteherd said:
I was appalled at my last show - it was quite a big show too... champion in hand was a bloke in old washed out demin jeans, a shirt that looked like it had seen better days, no gloves, no show cane, no hat.

The horse was nice but he didn't deserve to be champion above the rest of the perfectly nice and spotlessly turned out owners. Personally with the lack of personal turn out no matter how amazing the horse was I would struggle to even place him.

Re: plaiting.. I always get commended on my plaits however still am yet to master the art of sewing them... anyone have any tips to let ne know! :)
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YouTube is your friend!! - i can do it myself and show someone but really hard to explain its something the the infinity symbol or a side ways 8

greasedweasel said:
My major niggle - no slip heads on rugby pelhams - how can people look at a floppy snaffle ring and think it looks right???

Its not supposed to be FLACCID!!! LOL
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THISS EXACTLY!! Drives me bonkers
 
After years with pure bred welshes I'm getting a part bred because I want a plaited pony again :) To me the preparation and looking spot on is what its all about ;) my showing gear is all ebay bargains, good quality & correct. Watch & learn is the best way. I wouldn't go showjumping if my horse couldn't jump so don't go showing if your not prepared to show, 1st couple of starting out disasters excepted lol
 
blackcob said:
At my first show on my first pony, aged about 14/15 I turned up with:

Mismatching tack (she had a black bridle and a brown GP saddle - she was still on loan and came with tack we couldn't afford to replace)
A flash on the bridle
A borrowed pelham that was slightly too wide (no sliphead)
Fairly decent sewn-in plaits, copied faithfully from my mum's 1976 Pony Club Manual of Horsemanship but probably still a bit golf-ball-like and unneccessary on a Welsh Cob anyway
Black jacket bought from the second hand section of the local tack shop
My school shirt and a borrowed man's tie
My mum's old long leather boots from when she had her childhood pony, two sizes too small but we'd given them a good stretch
Skull cap, although with plain black silk

We must have looked a sight but everything was spotlessly clean - I'd been up until the wee hours the night before cleaning her tack - and it was such a small show that we came home with a couple of rosettes regardless, including a 1st place (class of two :o).

I was SO proud. We'd done our very best. If anyone had suggested that we were doing it all wrong I possibly would have cried.

There's no excuse for dirty stuff but I will always excuse things that are the wrong colour, wrong type for the class etc. because maybe they don't know or can't afford any different. Maybe children riders were desperately proud of plaiting their own pony, however lumpy the result? :)
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Love this! Showing at local level isn't necessarily about having the 'best' gear, but you still have to make the effort because it is showing, and it is appearance based for some part.

I really think there can be little excuse for bad turnout (with perhaps some exceptions) It's free to pick up a pair of scissors and trim, wash and plait. There are fabulous tutorials on Youtube these days that show you how to plait really well.

I started teaching myself how to plait when I was 10 (they were horrible :p) but I quickly worked out how to work a mane and make them look lovely. Stitching in is the only way to go. I can now plait in 20 minutes, so for any showing/eventing/dressage, no matter how small I am plaited. I have never had/have stables, only muddy paddock to put them back into, so I figure if I can turn a horse out immaculately, anyone can! :p

I don't think enough can be said about watching the pro's and how they look. If what I've done doesn't look as good as thier turnout, I go home and practice!
 
Boysy said:
Hmm, sounds similar to an M&M flat showing class today where the pony pulled in 3rd out of 11 had a full set of black brushing boots on, martingale and 3 ring gag......i nearly feel over backwards when she placed her considering 3 ponies under her were turned out completely to type and moved much better.......

Doesn't matter where i am showing, the same amount of prep and pampering goes on and wouldn't dream of not entering the class to type, no boots whatsoever should ever be worn in a pure showing class let alone an M&M class, the only time they are allowed is the jumping phase of a working hunter class and then removed for the rest. Everything is always spotless when we enter a class.
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I agree with everything you have written. Years ago, my daughter and I went to help two friends with their horses at a local show. They had taken along a little cob cross mare as company on the box for the two nutty sport horses and as a thank you to my daughter (then about 11'ish) they entered her in the open cob class. We hastily groomed the mare as best we could, found a jacket and hairnet for Em and, in they went. The judge really, really liked the mare (we ended up having her for a year) and really, really liked the way Em rode her, but explained that he just couldn't place her b/c a) the mare was in a gag; b) she wasn't properly turned out; c) Em wasn't properly turned out either . . . we did it for Em to have the experience - didn't hurt anybody but when I saw the effort the rest of the class had gone to with their turnout, I totally understood and agreed with the judge.

Here they are . . . have to say was so proud of Em - first time she had ever sat on the pony and first time ever in a show ring . . . she did brilliantly

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P
 
loubymiller said:
It really really annoys me when I am at dressage and people make no effort whatsoever. I'm the first to admit my plaiting isn't great but I do try.
I used to write a lot for dressage judges and they have told me that if you can tell someone has made an effort it makes them feel like they are appreciated.
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Yeh, me too!

I once went to a little local RC dressage. I kid you not, one person turned up on filthy colored cob pony, with leaves matted in to it's tail, rider in a blouson type jacket (name embroidered on back) and purple wellies. And yep, they rode in to the ring like that. Couldn't believe my eyes! I wouldn't hack out like that, let alone disrespect a judge in a class like that.

No turning out doesn't make the horse perform better, but it at least gives the impression of giving a damn. :rolleyes:
 
One of the (many) reasons I quit showing about seven years ago was all the faff, including braiding/plaiting, it took in order to present yourself for a four and a half minute dressage test. Being a bit of a grumpy git, even from a young age, I always felt I had better things to do with my time than conform to some antiquated social construction of what a "correctly turned out" horse should look like and did my braids grudgingly in order to fit the social norm. It got slightly better when my horse grew her mane out so I could do it up in a lattice, which was a bit more satisfying as it just looked cool and was easier to do.

It's not so much of an issue in Britain, but there's nothing worse than wearing a stock tie and a heavy black or dark blue jacket in 35 degree weather. Yuck. There was usually some poor sod at shows who would faint due to the heat and the completely inappropriate (for that time of year) clothing we had to wear.
 
Does it really matter?

At a local show I would be pleased that people have made an effort and would hope that they are having fun.

People have to start somewhere and yes, that may be big bulky unruly plaits with the wrong coloured bands in. But at least they are giving it a go.
 
To me, if its showjumping then it doesn't matter what you look like what matters is whether you leave the jumps up, I would want to be presentable though but thats up to you....

However... Showing is a different matter.

Having had recent forays into the showing world with my baby traditional cob, I have twice now been placed below people wearing jeans and jumpers, drives me bonkers! Yes ok so the horses were turned out well but I think the handlers turn out should be taken into account too.


I took the time and effort to buy a tweed jacket and yellow dusters so I could dye my white shirt yellow in the wash ;) and stood in front of the mirror remembering how to do up a tie. This should count for something! ;)

I wouldn't expect to be placed if I turned up in jeans.
 
conkers said:
Does it really matter?

At a local show I would be pleased that people have made an effort and would hope that they are having fun.

People have to start somewhere and yes, that may be big bulky unruly plaits with the wrong coloured bands in. But at least they are giving it a go.
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Does it matter? Well, it might matter to some. I have certainly gone unplaited, or shown in the wrong tack tack or whatever - but those are minor to not even bothering to brush the mud off. A local show can be fun even if the ponies are turned out lovely.

Went to Rozelle park at the weekend too - everyone turned out nicely and appropriately - heck, we nearly came last as a team in the Riding test - but we still had fun. In fact, some of the other clubs were hanging out with us cos we're fun ;) or maybe just noisy :rolleyes:
 
As a slight aside to this, what do you all consider correct turnout for a groom? There is a chance I'll be grooming for a friend at Blair this year and I'd hate to get it wrong!
 
I do think we put far too much emphasis on appearance in this country not just in the horse world. People not looking smart or perfectly turned out does not irriate me, people treating horses badly at shows does.

I would have no problem being beaten by someone who was not as well turned out as me, even if that person is wearing jeans and trainers if the horse is a of a better quality than mine and put up a better show. I would however be very put out if a poor example of horse, badly schooled who did a poor show was placed above me if I had a better horse and my show was better, just because they were better turned out (unless of course it was a best turned out class!)

I would say the order of judging prefence should be

1) Is the horse true to type (eg a cob entered in a show pony class should be placed down the line as not true to type even if the other entries are badly turned out and badly behaved)
2) The show - is the horse well schooled and behaved, did they do a good show
3) How they are turned out.

Turn out should only really make a difference to the results if you have lots of people who excel in both 1&2 and making it very hard to make a decision. At a county show you are more likely to have this situation.

Like the lady with the coloured cob people sometimes start out a local show with their turnout not 100% right then improve and often move up to affiliated so that might be why you don't see many people turned out to a professional standard as when they have reached that point then them move on.

Having an attitude that people at local shows should be turned out to the same level as those at county shows could put people off going or make them feel inadequate as they were not as good at turning their horse out as a professional when they had tried their best.

I would also add that sometimes if you find something easy and are good at it you can't understand why others can't do it easily as well. Plaiting and turnout is a skill. I am still hopeless at every aspect of horse hairdressing from clipping to plaiting, no amount of books, utube, pracitise is going to make me as good at turning out as a show groom. I have to pay someone who is good at clipping to clip my pony, I tried to pull his mane a bit as it was very bushy and had too long and it ended up looking like a pyramid. Luckily as he is a native pony I don't need to plait otherwise he would end up with the uneven golf balls like my childhood pony had that would sometimes come undone if he did a big shake.

I remember as a kid I used to plait my pony myself for pony club and shows and the plaits were not perfect and certainly there was no way my parents where going to let me loose with a needle (risk of needle in haystack would happen if I dropped it accidently!) and I was really proud that I had turned out my pony myself, yes he did not look as smart as the ponies that were plaited and turned out by experienced parents or grooms but I enjoyed doing him myself.
 
To be honest I think the original comments are pretty poor, if your at a local show, no @@@@ sherlock it will be for local people who will want to have a go and who cant do bigger events and HAVE FUN,

Some people who haven't been though pony club or had a silver spoon in their mouth only get limit experience at the local shows.
Makes me quite cross TBH people have to start somewhere and if its beneath you at local shows, don't go- and give some one else half a chance to gain confidence and experience!
 
Very wise post from SO1 above.

Yes, turnout is important, BUT for most classes it is type,conformation and manners that matter most and I would rather see a true-to-type, well-conformed and well-mannered horse win (albeit with incorrect turnout), then something win that has bad manners, numerous confomation faults and not the correct type for the class (but had spent a fortune on the correct gear).

BUT, when the judging gets to the point of splitting hairs between a couple of beautifully made horses of the correct type with fantastic manners, then the way they are turned out can make a significant difference. (A well-pulled tail can make the quarters look bigger, a well-plaited mane can make a neck look perfect, the way the saddle is placed can make a horse look well-balanced etc.)
 
I very rarely Plait for anything. My plaiting is awful and my horse has a bog brush mane. It looks far better neatly pulled and groomed
 
Ive not bothered to read the whole thread, But, I think it has a lot to do with generations and where people are taught to ride. And also which side they prefer. Like me, I used to do the stable management courses and there were older ladies in charge who showed us how to plait properly. I like the grooming side of horses, and so I used to volunteer (madly) my services to plait up all the horses for the weekly show jumping at the Riding School. Thats like 12 horses an evening every week.

I am not brilliant at it, but I can get them neat and fat and they look nice and complement the horse. I also like being able to groom a horse to a shine.

I know it is mostly about the horse and its conformation etc, but then they say you should be able to turn a horse out smartly to enhance and complement that.
 
I can plait and I can sew them in too. But these days, now I have a husband and two children to look after I simply don't have the time! I'm lucky to get to a show at all!
 
IMO most local shows are mainly about having fun!

One of my local RC's hold one show every spring entitled "Fun Show". There is no requirement to plait, or even be in a show jacket. It's for people who don't really do a lot of comps, or have ponies that wouldn't normally be eligible. The smiles you see on peoples faces at these events are amazing, and rare these days! I think as long as you and your pony are clean, and have obviously tried your hardest that's all that matters.

I have to agree though at a more formal show, it is a sign of respect to be correctly turned out. I have a youngster, and think bathing and plaiting are as much part of the experience as being in the ring!
 
*holds head in shame*
I plait my dark bay in White bands to match his boots when sj ing ect

However if we do manage to get out onto the show circuit next year, I promise to work on my sowing (but I can tie a tie and a stock for hunting :) )


I also strongly disagree with the 'showing is for wusses' comment, I'd rather point my idiot at a novice xc fence then enter the ring at the great Yorkshire!
 
While my horses will be sparkly clean for even a schooling show, I can't braid. Have zero skills in this area despite trying since childhood. Therefore I have chosen SJ's as a discipline. Thank you hair gel.

Signed useless fingers/hand
Terri
 
Re Mike007's comment about the 'bravery' of people who show. I show and dressage because I don't actually enjoy jumping.
There -my name is Janette and I don't enjoy jumping. But I do enjoy riding correctly - so I compete in dressage and showing on my coloured native mare. (no plaiting needed :D)

Re: the comment about turnout at local shows not being expected to be as good as at County Level....
Everybody has to start somewhere....but the one's who start with red numnahs, coloured silks, and matching gloves and then take note of what is happening around them, take the trouble to find out how to do things correctly (pulling a tail correctly costs nothing), practice their riding and schooling and move up the ranks..... those are the people I admire.
And to be honest - I find the turnout at local shows in general, to be good. So much so, that we really notice those who either don't know, or can't be bothered.


So why show when you can't be bothered with turnout? Go do Le Trec instead.
 
I have always shown 'wash n go' natives. No pulling, trimming, plaiting etc. And then I started work in a racing yard. Oh how quickly I learnt how to pull, trim and plait manes and tails! I can now top and tail a horse in 15mins with bands. I am a master of racehorse turnout now. My show horses are slightly different. It takes me half an hour to stich plait a mane. I can't pull tails very well at all so for my exracers first ever shows they get plaited for local level and when they go up to county I spend about 2 weeks gradually pulling them.
 
Its only a local show therefore most people there will be there for a fun day out. They're likely to be people who dont go to events very often so why bother learning to plait immaculately? You mentioned sewing them in - I have never ever sewn a plait in my life and I've done plenty of county shows and BE over the years! Just because I have plaited millions of times, I'm still rubbish at it because I hate doing it (for BE I take the plaits out the second the dressage is over, literally while walking back to the trailer!) - I think for things like dressage its pointless and we need to move with the times and stop looking so ponsy. I can see why you have to plait for showing as thats all about looks, but at the end of the day if its a local show - people are out to have fun and aren't aiming for HOYS.
 
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