people who event full TB's

R

racingdemon

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the amateur rider/expensive horse post has got me thinking, being a bit a racing fan (& breeding the odd one as a hobby with my ma) do those people who event full TB's look at and consider their breeding and bloodlines, in the same way you perhaps might with a Warmblood/sports-horse type? or do you just select TB's on the individual horse.....?

RD
 
I don't know if we count, as Reg is still turning into an eventer and won't be doing BE for another year. This year he'll hopefully be doing mostly PC ODEs at 1m.

However- we chose him because he looked classy as an individual horse. He was put together well, and had nice paces and a willing, bold attitude. We didn't look at bloodlines at all until after we decided to loan him- he has good bloodlines for racing (I think!) which probably contribute to why he looks like such a classy horse.
 
Not really qualified to say but Andrew Nicholson bought my yearling on his movement and attitude and only sold him on at five due to being too small for him; he's now ridden by Lisa Maynard and started Novice last year. Although he was well bred (Sharastani x Madame Genereux) I don't think his breeding was what swung it that day but his ground covering walk and straightness. I was more chuffed that AN had picked him out as a good enough speciman rather than if he had gone racing TBH.
 
No, picked him beacuse he jumped nicely and moved well. Although found out he by the same sire as a few eventers including Running Brook, none of stallions offspring are the best at SJing thou!!

On buying Buster to event, he moved well and knew how to gallop. Turned out he jumped well to!

Never been one too hot on breeding tbh!
 
my mare was a full TB, racing name Lemon Tree. Her sire was Weldnaas and her dam Go Gipsy. I bought her at the bloodstock sales for £600, she was 6yo then - tbh mainly because she looked kind! I knew nothing about her breeding, spoke to one of the grooms who said she raced averagely on the flat, consistently 3rd and 4th and 5th, but they tried to hurdle her and she jumped over the brush! She was a brilliant xc horse and quite good paces too but always was too careful sj. I tragically lost her in an accident last year. She taught me so much in the 4 years we had together - she was a ginger madam. Pics just cause she was my everything :( RIP Izzy

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My new pony is full TB too - didnt pick him because he was TB but love at first sight and just something about him! He is 4yo rising 5yo. American bred, quite well bred apparently. His sire is Johannesberg and the dam was Royal Linkage. |As a weanling he was sold for a whopping $135,000!! eek, he has Secretariat blood lines but didnt like the starting stalls! Hoping to event him this year - he is a bold little soul and such a pet makes me sad to think of him in a racing yard cause he really likes a one to one, he is wise beyond his years! A wee pic for good measure.

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i really love how intelligent Tbs are. I would be interested to see if people do pick a certain breed line for eventing as i am quite clueless about TB breeding tbh :)
 
My eventer is by Rainbow Quest, Damsire is Mr Prospector. He was definitely chosen by us because of his breeding. With blood like that we guessed he must have something! And he does! :)
 
i just look at the individual horse, and in particular its movement and, crucially, natural jumping style. some tbs have a naturally very flat, dangly style which is not a good starting place for an eventer... of course, the best thing is that their natural cruising pace is so quick compared to 3/4 breds.
i had a lovely little horse to event for an HHOer a couple of seasons ago and although he didn't have fashionable breeding (i'd never heard of his sire, Bimsey, and have never heard of another by him - i don't follow racing much though!) he was an absolutely super little horse with a perfect textbook natural jumping style, lovely paces, and pretty bold and straightforward xc. in fact he never had a fence sj until he started to have a few tiny niggles with an old forelimb injury (all healed now) and got tappy, till then he was the most careful chap i've ever ridden. very non-tb ish really.
of course, if you're trying to find a potential 4* horse, it's nice to know that its breeding is good enough for it to be a Grand National contender... ;) ;)
 
I didn't buy either of my TB's to event, nor did I look at breeding. Both of them were spur of the moment purchases, one cost £400, and the other £100. The one I paid £400 for came from the meat man, I saw her in a field I was hacking past, and within 2 days she was mine. I fell in love with her pretty face! I bought her to hack and possibly hunt, but she went on to Novice and 1* level. Breeding wise (which I didn't find out until after I bought her!) she is by Chaddleworth (from searching on Racing Post I wouldn't say he is the best stallion!), but her Grandsire on her Mother's side is Nijinski.

My other TB I bought from a novice who was terrified of her. I had concussion when I went to see her (I had discharged myself out of hospital that morning!), and bought her on the spot for £100 (the owner just wanted rid of her). I don't actually remember going to see her, the first thing I remember is finding a random bay horse in my stable! Breeding wise she is by Double Trigger, so pretty good, but I didn't know this at the time I bought her. My original plan was to reschool and sell her, but then my main event horse was injured, and she was there. I hadn't had much interest in her on the selling front so I took her off the market and registered her BE. She has a very good BE record now, with 2 wins and many placings, she has also qualified for Badminton Grassroots Championships.

If I was lookinf for a TB to event I would probably consider breeding far more than the 2 I have, but then again having spent £500 and got 2 good horses, is it that important? Maybe of I was looking for a future Olympic prospect, but for a horse to do the the lower levels temperament is far more important.
 
My (now deceased) old TB mare was by Mansingh who was a sprinter. She was very neat in front with a serious engine, and the biggest backside and second thigh you could imagine! She did everything well, took me to HOYS and RIHS in the Working Hunter, won a P-T-P for me, and at 11, went eventing and ended up a 2* Intermediate. I always prefer sprint bred TBs because they all are very strongly built, and have a big backside. It never hurts to have the confo to jump a fence!
 
dominobrown - thanks he is actually a wee bit croup high at the moment - think he is going to grow a wee bit more. He does have a lovely ground covering walk, canter is a bit unbalanced but its improving all the time.
 
I live next to a racing stud and it's very obvious which of the broodmares and youngsters can really move. I had a lovely grey by a Bold Lad sire and I'd go and see any with those bloodlines in the strength of him. If I were going to the sales, I might earmark a few with the kind of breeding that I'd be looking for - ie. the sires that seem to throw really good movers. There's an absolutely million-dollar broodmare by In the Wings in the stud next door and I positively drool over her every time I see her! But I wouldn't buy one on breeding alone - I'd just go on what was in front of me at the time.
 
I am also not qualified to sat but as I have a TB I hope to do some eventing on i'll stick my 2 pennies worth in ;)

The TB's I've had and got I picked because I liked the horse in front of me as apposed to breeding. However if a horse has good breeding it is more likely to be the athletic type and move well, the very good racehorses would make good riding horses generally.
My horse has danehill lines and is out of a group 1 winner, I was concerned as looking up his sire he is very much in the danehill mould and has a humoungous backside but is built downhill, very nice neck but they look a bit cut and shunt! Luckily the dams side must have really complemented my horse's sire because he has a powerful back end but has matured to be very uphill, hooray!
You can tell he has classy bloodlines to ride, he can excelerate like nothing I've felt before lol! He's the one in my sig and you can see from the left picture that he has a jump in him, he's super bold as well and very genuine.

I do enjoy researching my TB's lines but each one wasn't chosen because of their lines. My current boy didn't look like much when I went to see him but I liked his athletic paces and he jumped over a lunge whip lying on the floor of the school when his owner was riding him for me and I thought if to jump was his natural instinct when spotting something on the ground he would do for me!

Despite not choosing them for bloodlines, researching afterwards all of them have had good breeding. My last horse was by bob back (one of the leading NH sired, was a group 1 flat winner) and my mums horse is by Halling another group 1 flat winner.

My friend brought a non-race bred full TB and she picked her purposely for eventing. She was 8k as a 3 yr old! Expensive!! She was a stupidly classy horse, unfortunatly she got to Novice and then had to retire from kissing spines :(, shame as she had 4* potential :(
 
My first horse was a Exracer he was bought with the intention of trying abit of low level eventing, although wimpy to start he ended up being brill brave yet careful showjumping just got slightly hot in the dressage he was by Perpendicular. I have had afew other Exracers one in particular who was very well bred, was so lazy but safe as houses.

I bought a full TB unbacked 4yr old specifically for eventing he was bred for National Hunt, brilliant stamp fantastic bold attitude would have made a brilliant eventer but sadly lost him.

None of these horses did i buy for who there sire/dam etc was i went purely on stamp, movement, attitude. Having seen a couple of others by the same stallion that the horse I lost was by I would definately go and have a look though.
 
charlimouse said:
I didn't buy either of my TB's to event, nor did I look at breeding. Both of them were spur of the moment purchases, one cost £400, and the other £100. The one I paid £400 for came from the meat man, I saw her in a field I was hacking past, and within 2 days she was mine. I fell in love with her pretty face! I bought her to hack and possibly hunt, but she went on to Novice and 1* level. Breeding wise (which I didn't find out until after I bought her!) she is by Chaddleworth (from searching on Racing Post I wouldn't say he is the best stallion!), but her Grandsire on her Mother's side is Nijinski.
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My eventer is also by Chaddleworth! The story is a bit similar to yours as I was given him and didn't know his breeding until I had had him a few months. He is the sweetest horse to have around, has good paces and is unbelievably brave. How does this compare to yours?
 
nope, i picked first lad because i liked his face... n then only passed him on becuase he was too much for me going back to uni, current lad had competed BSJA and BE, xc machine, SJ machine too! not quite fluid enuf for dressage but he's so laid back! found out he did really well racing and flat and hurdled. tbh i wasnt looking for another tb but he is exactly what i wanted experience etc wise n i really clicked well with him! Helping my confidence no end n i wouldnt swap him for the world now :D
 
Squeak said:
My eventer is also by Chaddleworth! The story is a bit similar to yours as I was given him and didn't know his breeding until I had had him a few months. He is the sweetest horse to have around, has good paces and is unbelievably brave. How does this compare to yours?
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Mine has the most incredible temperament, not the best paces, a bit long and flat (made sitting trot easy though!). But she is the bravest horse I have ever come across. Never had an xc fault. She made eventing feel easy! She has also now bred a foal who gained a first premium at the BEF futurity, and she has got her broodmare diploma.
 
I think it depends on what age you buy them.

Millie was bought at 3 weeks old with her dam so we had to go a lot on breeding and less on the horse stood in front of us!

Once they are ridden the balance swings and it is much more to do with the horse in front of you and less about breeding.
 
I do pick TB's on their pedigree alone and if i'm going to a sale I will look over a catalogue and research only those whose pedigree that I like the look off- somewhat necessary when you can have anything from 150 to 400 horses to look at in a sale.

You can have so many nice looking horses but what you need is the right attitude, ability and soundness, you cannot envisage this when looking at them in a sale hence why I then look at the pedigree. A lot of nice looking horses that walk well can be completly useless for eventing. The pedigree will then usually give me a fair indicator of wether the horse will have the right attributes

It is incredible how the same bloodlines and patterns of breeding pop up again and again in the best thoroughbred event horses . All the thoroughbreds I've then bought usually fit in with that pedigree pattern and have shown the right sort of mind and ability, the times that I've been swayed by a nice looking one without the right pedigree it has turned out to be a horse more suited to another job and not eventing.

Of course there is always the odd one that has no pedigree and is brilliant!
 
I didn't even know what my first TB's breeding was, and was told he had done a bit of P2Ping and that was it. Once I'd had a good look at his passport realised that he had done a bit more than they said, won and placed in some serious races and was by the same stallion as Papillon and Spot thedifference. He has a fantastic temperament but always suffered from nerves at events especially in the SJ - so frustrating as he was an extremely talented jumper. Had nice paces but not flashy, and trot was quite flat. Usual comments in dressage were to do with tension - he never exploded and was very obedient but he just never swung along in a soft way. Was very tough physically which seems to be typical of his sire, Lafontaine.

When I went to see my second TB I liked him and then got a bit carried away when I saw his breeding - by a stallion, Tamure, who was by Sadlers Wells. Had very good paces with a very active hindleg and built very uphill. He didn't turn out to be a good buy - incredibly lazy and dead to the leg, but we were getting there. Was a very careful jumper and loved his XC, especially water. Unfortunately damaged himself in the field 6 months after I bought him and never been 100% since - is field sound and that's it. Wish I had paid a bit more attention to his breeding - Tamures do seem to be a bit injury prone with not the best legs. Mine turned out to be a typical one!
 
I currently have 3 ex-racehorses to event, of which I had only heard of the bloodlines on one of them... I think people buying TB's to event tend to look at the horse in front of them as oppose to bloodlines - although there are several TB stallions in eventing, and if a horse was by a good eventing TB stallion that would be a bonus to me.

This said, I also have a couple of WB types to event, and whilst a couple of them do have good breeding, I wouldn't say it is something I look at massively and is coincidental, unless I am buying something unbacked, when it would be more important to me... I think most of the horses that are a really nice type of horse come from good bloodlines anyway, so the two are probably fairly interlinked.
 
Interesting thread, however, we have never owned a full TB, but if the right one came along for Mini TX to event I think we would look at it as a whole, but its interesting to hear of bloodlines etc. Our mare is a KWPN/TB cross - one of my friends, who was involved a great deal in the racing industry has said that her head is pure TB - everything else looks pure WB. Our mare's mother was pur TB, and she was by Motivate. Now for some reason that name rings bells and I cant put my finger on it. My friend said Motivate was a good horse and well known. I have tried googling, etc, but cant seem to find anything about him. I know its daft, but does anyone on here know of him, or what he did?

BTW, OP, sorry if I hijack thread.
 
TheoryX1 said:
Interesting thread, however, we have never owned a full TB, but if the right one came along for Mini TX to event I think we would look at it as a whole, but its interesting to hear of bloodlines etc. Our mare is a KWPN/TB cross - one of my friends, who was involved a great deal in the racing industry has said that her head is pure TB - everything else looks pure WB. Our mare's mother was pur TB, and she was by Motivate. Now for some reason that name rings bells and I cant put my finger on it. My friend said Motivate was a good horse and well known. I have tried googling, etc, but cant seem to find anything about him. I know its daft, but does anyone on here know of him, or what he did?

BTW, OP, sorry if I hijack thread.
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http://www.pedigreequery.com/
have a look on this website. It will help you.
 
seabsicuit2 said:
I do pick TB's on their pedigree alone and if i'm going to a sale I will look over a catalogue and research only those whose pedigree that I like the look off- somewhat necessary when you can have anything from 150 to 400 horses to look at in a sale.

You can have so many nice looking horses but what you need is the right attitude, ability and soundness, you cannot envisage this when looking at them in a sale hence why I then look at the pedigree. A lot of nice looking horses that walk well can be completly useless for eventing. The pedigree will then usually give me a fair indicator of wether the horse will have the right attributes

It is incredible how the same bloodlines and patterns of breeding pop up again and again in the best thoroughbred event horses . All the thoroughbreds I've then bought usually fit in with that pedigree pattern and have shown the right sort of mind and ability, the times that I've been swayed by a nice looking one without the right pedigree it has turned out to be a
horse more suited to another job and not eventing.

Of course there is always the odd one that has no pedigree and is brilliant!
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You can't write an answer like that and not spill the beans on what pedigree you look for ;)
What and why?

I find Tb breeding really interesting, not least because they are all connected at some point down the line. My Tb has northern dancer and native dancer on his dame line 3/4 generations back and so does my mums Tb but on his fathers dam line so even though they are totally different they are distantly related! My horse also has precipitation popping up a few times and so did my late mare. My grey was a great great granddaughter of grey soverign and she was the spitting image of him. All ours are very sound. Would be interested to hear what stallions can throw horses with soundness problems?
 
We ran a Belgian WB by Darco who had previously only show jumped. As you would expect the SJ phase was always good and she always jumped clear X/C. When she couldn't compete anymore due to injury we chose to look for a TB as the WB didnt seem to cover the ground that well in the X/C phase.

Didnt know much about TB breeding so that wasn't the reason we bought her (although the sire has won several races on the flat). We were more impressed by her attitude and the way she was put together.
 
TheoryX1 said:
Interesting thread, however, we have never owned a full TB, but if the right one came along for Mini TX to event I think we would look at it as a whole, but its interesting to hear of bloodlines etc. Our mare is a KWPN/TB cross - one of my friends, who was involved a great deal in the racing industry has said that her head is pure TB - everything else looks pure WB. Our mare's mother was pur TB, and she was by Motivate. Now for some reason that name rings bells and I cant put my finger on it. My friend said Motivate was a good horse and well known. I have tried googling, etc, but cant seem to find anything about him. I know its daft, but does anyone on here know of him, or what he did?

BTW, OP, sorry if I hijack thread.
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I reckon you may be thinking about the horse Motivator who was a cracking racehorse not that long ago, not sure about Motivate himself and what he did racing wise but seems that he has sired a few eventers. He has a cracking old fashioned pedigree, great for sport.
 
firewell said:
You can't write an answer like that and not spill the beans on what pedigree you look for ;)
What and why?

I find Tb breeding really interesting, not least because they are all connected at some point down the line. My Tb has northern dancer and native dancer on his dame line 3/4 generations back and so does my mums Tb but on his fathers dam line so even though they are totally different they are distantly related! My horse also has precipitation popping up a few times and so did my late mare. My grey was a great great granddaughter of grey soverign and she was the spitting image of him. All ours are very sound. Would be interested to hear what stallions can throw horses with soundness problems?
Click to expand...

If you look at the pedigrees of all the great event stallions of the 'good old days' like Shaab, Lord David S, Primative Rising, Criminal Law, Krisinky, Poetic Justice, Miners Lamp, Roviris etc ( funnily enough, all of them were thoroughbreds bred for racing and turned out to be top event sires!) and so on and then also check out the pedigrees of all the NZ, USA and Austrailian TB's that have evented at 4 star level ( easy to find as the exracehorse is the predominant source of horses for eventing in those countries) and then compare the pedigrees to the TB stallions that the KWPN , Belgian and SF studbooks have used in their showjumping breeding programs ( they use racebred TBs to inject blood and quality into the warmbloods) you'd be amazed at how the same names crop up. You have to research it all the way back to the 1960's tho, then you start to get some sort of knowledge on it.
( sorry, I'm a total pedigree freak!!)

With the soundness issues - you can pick this up from being involved in racing and its always the same stallions that can only produce a horse thats sound enough for its 2/3 year old year and thats it.

As for your tb's bloodlines, practically everything goes back to Northern and Native dancer. But having Precipitation several times is amazing!! and he is the best you could hope for :-) obv he sired Furioso who went on to sire the best horses.
Grey Sovereign is also a top guy to have too, one of the best.
 
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I have aquired a 3 yo racer whom I hope to event. She is by the stallion tiger hill out of a barathea mare. Stud fee for him was £16k at the time (its dropped a bit now); but doing some research on him, hes had some good offspring, as has the mares side. I have tried doing some research to see if there are any of his offspring out eventing, or doing anything else, and all seems to have drawn a blank so far!

So far she is showing a very good attitude to poles and logs on the floor, as well as seeming to be a very nice horse. Only problem is she is a flat bred TB, and has the legs to go with it.
 
thanks everyone, that's really interesting, with the increase in ex racehorses in eventing & people buying them to retrain as event horses, I'm really interested to see which modern stallions become most predominant, as a PP has said Northern Dancer & the likes appear in so many TB's that it is less of an influence than perhaps some of the more recent stallions

from my own opinion, although the TB's we personally breed have been flat horses, i personally prefer 'proper old fashioned' jump breeding, and again I'm really interested to see which strains come to the fore in eventing, whether the staying stallions have a greater influence at higher levels?

RD

(for interest my current event horse is by seclude, out of legal tender mare, and prior to that i had a scallywag & A Le Bavard that i did a bit of eventing with & an executive perk who is stunning but just hasn't the mind for eventing) my old P2P's were allsorts of different things, none had the where with all to go eventing though!)
 
I got my first ex racer and he has a massive pop in him

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just presumed that it was just the way he was but talking to some people on here the horses in his pedigree could be responsible :D He has roberto on his dams side and apparently in the states this and robellino lines are quite sort after for eventing.

My other little horse that I bought last year also has this horse and robellino on his dams side as well.
 
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