people who watched the slowest round of the day
- Thread starter jules89
- Start date
FFF
Well-Known Member
Yeah...she did really well even tho she was slow. At least she didnt risk life andd limb
teapot
Well-Known Member
Agreed
Such a nice horse too
scotsmare
Well-Known Member
Fair enough she might have justified herself but it was ridiculously slow in places - even between fences there were times when it was little more than a slow canter.
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
Well done her.... I wouldnt mind being good enough to be the slowest clear of the day!!!!
moneypit1
Well-Known Member
Good for her. Got round and got back safely. i didn't see it but hey, good on her. Can't even imagine being close to that class! xx
lannerch
Well-Known Member
I think she was risking life and limb going that slow!
longtalltilly
Well-Known Member
I wouldnt mind being the slowest at my first ever burghley!!!!! hats off to her I say!
I_A_P
Well-Known Member
In places i wish she had sped up as she looked dangrously slow but she got round safer than others with a horse that looked very happy jumping and enjoyed her round.
In comparison i think it was Marie ryan who rode the horse round the track and it just did not seem to be enjoying it (i remeber one of the commentators saying she should probably retire) and then she later fell
In comparison i think it was Marie ryan who rode the horse round the track and it just did not seem to be enjoying it (i remeber one of the commentators saying she should probably retire) and then she later fell
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
But she may have been risking life and limb going at the stupid pace that some of the others went at too.....
I suppose she knows and trusts her horse and I think she did a cracking job....
Especially compared to Marie Ryan who managed to have her horse look knackered and too tired to jump ending up banking the dairy fence and the corner one (sorry dont know the proper name) and then heard later she came to grief anyway.....
Now she was risking life and limb carrying on....
I suppose most rounds had their hairy moments.... .the mushrooms were awful for lots of others, yet she had a lovely time
I suppose she knows and trusts her horse and I think she did a cracking job....
Especially compared to Marie Ryan who managed to have her horse look knackered and too tired to jump ending up banking the dairy fence and the corner one (sorry dont know the proper name) and then heard later she came to grief anyway.....
Now she was risking life and limb carrying on....
I suppose most rounds had their hairy moments.... .the mushrooms were awful for lots of others, yet she had a lovely time
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think she was risking life and limb going that slow!
[/ QUOTE ]
That thought was also voiced to me by someone via PM after I had got soundly jumped on in the Burghley XC thread for asking why she was going SO slowly - the person who PMd me wondered whether she was risking a rotational fall by approaching fences very slowly.
I can completely appreciate the dreadful weather conditions, the poor going, the lack of 4* experience etc etc but it did seem to be me to a very slow round. As I said in the Burghley thread, I respect Ian Stark's opinion and he seemed rather surprised too!
However the really important part is that, whatever the reasons and the views of how she went, she got around the course clear (I assume her 20 penalties were removed on appeal) so very well done to her, she has far more guts and ability than I will ever have!
I think she was risking life and limb going that slow!
[/ QUOTE ]
That thought was also voiced to me by someone via PM after I had got soundly jumped on in the Burghley XC thread for asking why she was going SO slowly - the person who PMd me wondered whether she was risking a rotational fall by approaching fences very slowly.
I can completely appreciate the dreadful weather conditions, the poor going, the lack of 4* experience etc etc but it did seem to be me to a very slow round. As I said in the Burghley thread, I respect Ian Stark's opinion and he seemed rather surprised too!
However the really important part is that, whatever the reasons and the views of how she went, she got around the course clear (I assume her 20 penalties were removed on appeal) so very well done to her, she has far more guts and ability than I will ever have!
jules89
Well-Known Member
yeah its like 6 to one and half a dozen to the other - going slower makes the risk of a rotational fall typically more likely as when a horse hits a fence slowly they tend to flip. on the other hand, the horse will have had more time to have thought about what he was doing and time to snap up his legs etc
also considering how much the horse has had brake problems i would have rather seen her go slow than being out of control (note pratoni last year when someone went off down the slope and through the string...!)
also considering how much the horse has had brake problems i would have rather seen her go slow than being out of control (note pratoni last year when someone went off down the slope and through the string...!)
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
STRICTLY playing devils advocate here, should she really be running at 4* if she hasnt sorted out her braking problems though? I wouldnt want to run at Intro level if I thought I would be having problems stopping.....
jules89
Well-Known Member
(agree with u there aswell) but some horses are typically strong
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
If the horse had turned over she would have been very heavily critised on here for going too slowly, as it was she went clear so now people are equating that with safe.
How many links have I seen on here recently to articles, which slate people riding too "safely" and setting up the horse every stride.
I have also seen people on here told that they shouldn't be going round intro if they don't have brakes or steering.
It never fails to amaze me how fickle HHO is.
IMO she was too slow, but then I'm sure she knows her horse better than I do.
How many links have I seen on here recently to articles, which slate people riding too "safely" and setting up the horse every stride.
I have also seen people on here told that they shouldn't be going round intro if they don't have brakes or steering.
It never fails to amaze me how fickle HHO is.
IMO she was too slow, but then I'm sure she knows her horse better than I do.
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
I think at the end of the day..... she did go too slowly compared to everyone else and the time set.....
She did however get round which compared to the high percentage of people going at a normal/acceptable speed, didnt!!!
So who was right..... the slow clear or the fast round with the crashing falls???
She did however get round which compared to the high percentage of people going at a normal/acceptable speed, didnt!!!
So who was right..... the slow clear or the fast round with the crashing falls???
jules89
Well-Known Member
i dont think HHO is fickle as such i just rekon everyone has their own opinion
we cant really justify which speed is "right" or "correct" maybe because freak accidents have heppened even at the speed preffered and when the striding has been fine
i dont think there is a right or wrong, personally
we cant really justify which speed is "right" or "correct" maybe because freak accidents have heppened even at the speed preffered and when the striding has been fine
i dont think there is a right or wrong, personally
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
But she is one clear, by the same sentiment someone could go round at breakneck speed and be "clear" doesn't mean it is any safer than the normal speed.
If it's "safer" does that mean that all rounds should be that slow?
I didn't think she looked unsafe, but I just don't think saying you have no control going faster is a valid excuse!
My point is that she would have been jumped on by all the posters on that thread if something had gone wrong, and everyone would have said it was because she was going too slow.
If it's "safer" does that mean that all rounds should be that slow?
I didn't think she looked unsafe, but I just don't think saying you have no control going faster is a valid excuse!
My point is that she would have been jumped on by all the posters on that thread if something had gone wrong, and everyone would have said it was because she was going too slow.
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think HHO is fickle as such i just rekon everyone has their own opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
Difference of opinions is not my point, everyone is welcome to their opinions.
HHO is fickle in the fact that some people would have had a very different opinion had something gone wrong.
i dont think HHO is fickle as such i just rekon everyone has their own opinion
[/ QUOTE ]
Difference of opinions is not my point, everyone is welcome to their opinions.
HHO is fickle in the fact that some people would have had a very different opinion had something gone wrong.
jules89
Well-Known Member
oh right
yeah true but thats the case anywhere isnt it? agree with you in that respect though
yeah true but thats the case anywhere isnt it? agree with you in that respect though
Rosiefan
Well-Known Member
I was a bit shocked to see her going so slowly to be honest. I don't know whether it's more or less safe than going fast but I did wonder what on earth she was doing there.
Mel85
Well-Known Member
She knows the horse, she was sat on it at the time and if FEI stewards thought she was dangerous they would have pulled her up.
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
Yes.... I agree with you entirely..... It was the same when the horse slipped on the flat and broke its neck..... sorry cant remember who it was..... He was slated for going too fast and riding recklessly...
You cant win..... if you have an accident.. it will undoubtably be your fault!!!
You cant win..... if you have an accident.. it will undoubtably be your fault!!!
jules89
Well-Known Member
who clayton fredericks?
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
A few years ago a girl took round a coloured cobby type.... no idea who it was... but she was there again today.
She was soooo over the time it was untrue, but again she survived
Perhaps the horses had impulsion but not speed...???
One of the casualties of the mushrooms was riding into driving rain, the horses ears were pinned back and she seemed to have little in the way of impulsion.... she had a bad fall, but was riding at the normal speed the rest of the way round.
So perhaps its not so important how fast you go between the fences, but how you approach them in the final few strides???
She was soooo over the time it was untrue, but again she survived
Perhaps the horses had impulsion but not speed...???
One of the casualties of the mushrooms was riding into driving rain, the horses ears were pinned back and she seemed to have little in the way of impulsion.... she had a bad fall, but was riding at the normal speed the rest of the way round.
So perhaps its not so important how fast you go between the fences, but how you approach them in the final few strides???
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
Thats the guy
Sorry senior moment
Bubblegum
Well-Known Member
I just didn't like seeing her go so slow. If she had worries about brakes/bitting or any other concerns I would have thought these things should have been sorted out before embarking on the Burghley course. It just didn't look right.
IMO.
IMO.
jules89
Well-Known Member
oo i didnt know that, then again i didnt see the round at samur so cant form an opinion. shame either way really
do you mean olivia haddow with the other comment?
do you mean olivia haddow with the other comment?
merlinsquest
Well-Known Member
The conditions were proabably the cause of her fall though. I am no way saying it was her fault
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the round so can't comment directly, but can I ask, did the horse JUMP well at the speed he was going? Did he seem to be struggling from lack of pace? Did he look to be not going forward when asked or going the speed he was asked? (There is a HUGE difference!) Was he making the distances? Did he look comfortable and confident? Did he get his forearms up and out of the way at the take off speed, which is a big element in avoiding a rotational fall?
It's not really about "clear or not clear" it's about how that gets done. Some of the hairiest moments I've seen are from horses tying to slow down to the fence and literally leave a leg, or going too quickly to get their legs up for whatever reason.
Forward is not the same as fast. If the horse was still "thinking forward" and responding to the rider and to the fence, then it was likely safe IF it was also jumping well. If it was struggling and being held back inappropriately it was likely not, regardless of the result.
This is of course the BIG problem in policing these things. Some people think successful results (by whatever measure) mean it's all going well, when in fact it may just be dumb luck (which will eventually run out) and minutes from disaster.
I was privy to an interesting discussion once between two very esteemed riders (both with Olympic medals) about horses that got hellaciously strong xc. They both pretty much said if it gets to that point for whatever reason (conformation, temperament, training, soundness etc.) you're only every talking management, never "cure". And many horses get stronger as they go up the levels, learn their job, need to be fitter, stronger, and more able to look after themselves, and start to feed on the atmosphere. They didn't necessarily start that way nor are they necessarily strong all the time. BUT ideally you want to avoid that situation in your training and production, which is partly why one cannot use strong 4* horses as an excuse for strong Intro horses. If the horse starts that way, where is it going to go from there? (Not saying it's a good idea to have wretchedly strong 4* horses, either, but it CAN be at least partly situational. Besides, most of the aren't unridably strong.)
It's not really about "clear or not clear" it's about how that gets done. Some of the hairiest moments I've seen are from horses tying to slow down to the fence and literally leave a leg, or going too quickly to get their legs up for whatever reason.
Forward is not the same as fast. If the horse was still "thinking forward" and responding to the rider and to the fence, then it was likely safe IF it was also jumping well. If it was struggling and being held back inappropriately it was likely not, regardless of the result.
This is of course the BIG problem in policing these things. Some people think successful results (by whatever measure) mean it's all going well, when in fact it may just be dumb luck (which will eventually run out) and minutes from disaster.
I was privy to an interesting discussion once between two very esteemed riders (both with Olympic medals) about horses that got hellaciously strong xc. They both pretty much said if it gets to that point for whatever reason (conformation, temperament, training, soundness etc.) you're only every talking management, never "cure". And many horses get stronger as they go up the levels, learn their job, need to be fitter, stronger, and more able to look after themselves, and start to feed on the atmosphere. They didn't necessarily start that way nor are they necessarily strong all the time. BUT ideally you want to avoid that situation in your training and production, which is partly why one cannot use strong 4* horses as an excuse for strong Intro horses. If the horse starts that way, where is it going to go from there? (Not saying it's a good idea to have wretchedly strong 4* horses, either, but it CAN be at least partly situational. Besides, most of the aren't unridably strong.)