Peoples thoughts on this?

rowan666

rowan666

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Im sure most of you will have seen the original story of the teen who took ex MIL to court after she was left paralysed falling off her horse... well she only bloody won 😠 3million! This changes things for all of us. I will never allow anyone to ride my horses again. In this instance the teen was more experienced than MIL and was the one who encouraged her to buy it in the first place and even rode it at the viewing!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-37875194
 
I can see it changing things a lot. Particularly if normal third party insurance is no longer enough. It's not just the riding though, what if your horse kicks someone on the head when in the field, they knew the risks, but this case now sets a precedent.
 
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As I understand it the mother of the teenage girl was aware of the invitation to ride, and was fully in agreement, so it is not like she did not get parental permission. The girl was seen to be a more competent horse rider than the owner, which to my mind could have put a different slant on it.

TBH, as a professional I would think I was on very tricky ground myself if I allowed anyone to ride my horse, more so in fact, as I could be expected in law to forsee an accident more than a non professional. Especially as my horse was once a very naughty boy, even though he is generally reliable now.

The owner was insured, but now faces losing her home it seems, as the insurance may not be for enough. I think some policies only have 3rd party liability for 1 million, whereas they think damages will be for several millions.

In fact, I may be wrong, but even the BHS only insures for up to 3 million I believe? Although, I will be happy if it is in fact for more.

I'm not sure that the horse had ever bolted or bucked to the owner's knowledge, so the outcome seems even more unfortunate for the horse owner. In fact it says that the owner did not think the horse had problems.

I will be interested to hear more about the circumstances, as there will be more to it than a short article expresses. On the face of it though, it seems that the owner is being punished for not being an expert horse person rather than being malicious or deliberately gung ho. The owner even loaned the rider her body protector as she did not have her own, and she was wearing a hat.

I do feel for the rider, but hope for the owner's sake that the claim is covered by insurance. It does not seem to me like the owner deserves to lose their home.
 
An adult woman puts a 14 year old novice rider on an ex racehorse that she's only just bought, in the middle of a field - an accident waiting to happen - of course she's liable. Terrible lifelong injuries for the girl - of course she's entitled to compensation. It doesn't change everything for all of us - it just means we should be aware of not making stupid decisions and also have good insurance.
 
rowan666 said:
Im sure most of you will have seen the original story of the teen who took ex MIL to court after she was left paralysed falling off her horse... well she only bloody won 😠 3million! This changes things for all of us. I will never allow anyone to ride my horses again. In this instance the teen was more experienced than MIL and was the one who encouraged her to buy it in the first place and even rode it at the viewing!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-37875194
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Yes she 'won' 3 million. She's also paralysed for life. Maybe a bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.
 
This is only a newspaper article of course and not the judgement; but there is potentially a difference between allowing someone to ride and encouraging someone to ride. And a first ride on a green ex race horse in an open field is something of a recepie for disaster.

Pony Club insurance carries a maximum of £30M and BHS £20M. But many cheaper policies only insure to £10M which won't be enough. Actually having looked the insurance you get for donating to WHW is only £10M too. And of course there are always exclusions...
 
I think the fact that the girl was a child makes all the difference had it been an adult I am sure it would have been a totally different outcome, in my opinion the woman was wrong to put such a young girl on such a horse being it a horse she didn't really know and being an ex racehorse was very irresponsible and unfortunately the poor girl paid the price.

having adults ride your horses is one thing but having children ride them is totally another which is why I am not keen on kids being sharers I think it's a massive risk and I for one would never do it.
 
rowan666 said:
Im sure most of you will have seen the original story of the teen who took ex MIL to court after she was left paralysed falling off her horse... well she only bloody won �� 3million! This changes things for all of us. I will never allow anyone to ride my horses again. In this instance the teen was more experienced than MIL and was the one who encouraged her to buy it in the first place and even rode it at the viewing!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-37875194
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I think describing the owner as the ex MIL is stretching things, she was the 14 year old girlfriend of the owners son, she may have been more experienced than the owner and tried it at the viewing but that says very little about her ability or experience, if the owner was as novicey as she sounds it just means the girl was a bit more capable than her, at 14 many kids think they are invincible they often have no idea of what can really happen in a bad fall and in this case she sadly paid the price of probably thinking she was better and more capable than she was.

The horse is described as green, unresponsive and uneducated, this will have been as assessed by an independent expert not just the opinion of the judge, it once again shows the risks involved with inexperienced people buying cheap horses when in reality they have absolutely no idea what they are taking on, it is in no way the fault of the horse when they end up in the wrong hands but may make people take more care when buying and selling to try and find a horse that matches their experience and ability.
 
It's a very sad situation for both sides, I guess neither side really wins as such, the money won't help the girl walk again but to jepodise an innocent woman's home for the sake of an accident that could have been avoided if the teenager hafnt hyped up her experience is just awful and even if she was genuinely as good as she claimed (and we all know even the best riders fall) I whole heartedly believe that at 14 you are more than capable of knowing your limitations and making informed choices. So many competant teenagers will now lose out on the free rides they relied on for their horsey fix because of this and that is so sad.
 
rowan666 said:
It's a very sad situation for both sides, I guess neither side really wins as such, the money won't help the girl walk again but to jepodise an innocent woman's home for the sake of an accident that could have been avoided if the teenager hafnt hyped up her experience is just awful and even if she was genuinely as good as she claimed (and we all know even the best riders fall) I whole heartedly believe that at 14 you are more than capable of knowing your limitations and making informed choices. So many competant teenagers will now lose out on the free rides they relied on for their horsey fix because of this and that is so sad.
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There is no reason for many competent teens to miss out but it will make people think twice before sticking them on an unknown horse in an open field, it is all about the adult taking responsibility and being better informed not taking the word of an excited kid who often will exaggerate their ability and not even consider the risk of what may happen if things go wrong, a novice adult will not know any better than the teenager, we all learn by experience if we have not had much experience it can be difficult to appreciate the real risks involved in any situation when it is not obvious.
 
rowan666 said:
So many competant teenagers will now lose out on the free rides they relied on for their horsey fix because of this and that is so sad.
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There is no excuse for not having good 3rd party insurance in place for your horses. BHS Gold membership covers you for £20 million at a cost of under £100 per year. Horses can cause accidents, no matter how experienced you are. Get the insurance!!!
 
However... guys.... 3rd party insurance does NOT AUTOMATICALLY COVER THE RIDER. It will only cover damage a horse does to a third party... but not a rider. This is most definitely the case with NFU as I went into painful detail when checking for my sharers. Therefore, it is highly likely that the standard insurance wont' cover the damages. I sincerely hope this lady has something on her household insurance to support her. There are no winners in this case and many people have taken similar risks. I have had ex racers racing fit who were so laid back I thought they were doped. I have also seen ex racers which have needed the best part of a year to come off cloud cuckoo land and be able to relax into their new life and work.
 
Out of interest does anybody know where owners stand with the law/insurances when you pay a 14 year old to ride? When I advertised for a small proffesional to school my sec A I was inundated with responces 14-16 year olds charging the same amount as the professionals, I didn't respond to them, despite a couple of them seeming ideal in size and experience because it's such a minefield and hearing cases like this now I don't think I would ever let a child that wasn't my own ride my lot again which is a shame but I'm not prepared to risk it despite being insured
 
In this case the child - yes child - could not have been liable for getting on a racehorse in the middle of a field having never ridden a horse.

The judge was correct. 3 million will not ever make up for this girls lost "life" with functioning legs.
 
Luci07 said:
However... guys.... 3rd party insurance does NOT AUTOMATICALLY COVER THE RIDER. It will only cover damage a horse does to a third party... but not a rider. This is most definitely the case with NFU as I went into painful detail when checking for my sharers. Therefore, it is highly likely that the standard insurance wont' cover the damages. I sincerely hope this lady has something on her household insurance to support her.
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Exactly, many saying this is why you should have insurance seem to be oblivious to this, the poor owner not only had to live with knowing what happened to the girl but could well stand to lose EVERYTHING
 
equi said:
In this case the child - yes child - could not have been liable for getting on a racehorse in the middle of a field having never ridden a horse.

The judge was correct. 3 million will not ever make up for this girls lost "life" with functioning legs.
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That is not true though, the girl had ridden this same horse previously, she rode it at the pre purchase viewing
 
rowan666 said:
That is not true though, the girl had ridden this same horse previously, she rode it at the pre purchase viewing
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Presumably briefly in walk and trot maybe canter in an arena with the owner there and having ridden it themselves first and the horse settled in his environment. There is a vast difference to the situation the girl was then put in in the field.
 
rowan666 said:
Out of interest does anybody know where owners stand with the law/insurances when you pay a 14 year old to ride? When I advertised for a small proffesional to school my sec A I was inundated with responces 14-16 year olds charging the same amount as the professionals, I didn't respond to them, despite a couple of them seeming ideal in size and experience because it's such a minefield and hearing cases like this now I don't think I would ever let a child that wasn't my own ride my lot again which is a shame but I'm not prepared to risk it despite being insured
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I don't think a child can be a "professional" in this situation, as soon as money changes hands they would need to have their own insurance in place to allow them to offer a service and I don't think many insurance companies would take on such a risk, it is expensive enough for adult pros to get full cover, letting a child ride FOC is different although the risk is then yours to cover by insurance and assessment.
I think it may at some point put an end to many share arrangements that are borderline hiring out a horse for reward even if the reward is small, a few similar cases will make insurers take action.

The whole point is that the owner of the horse in this case was proved to be negligent in her actions she did not assess the risk and probably was unaware of it but ignorance is not a defence, accidents happen and if they are genuinely accidental then the owner will not be liable.
 
equi said:
Presumably briefly in walk and trot maybe canter in an arena with the owner there and having ridden it themselves first and the horse settled in his environment. There is a vast difference to the situation the girl was then put in in the field.
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Yes fair point actually but there are many 14 year olds that could have handled the situation, even by the girls account of things it's wasn't as if the horse threw a fit and bolted, she said it bucked and went into canter. It's a terribly tragic accident, I was riding a crazy ex racer when I was younger than that and I would never have sued the owner if I had of had an accident but then I guess sueing wasn't really a thing back then

Tiddlypom said:
As long as no payment is made to someone riding your horse with your full permission, then third party insurance should cover any accident/injuries. Once any payment is made, then that becomes a whole new ball game.
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The teenagers that messaged me were asking for between £12-30 an hour plus travel! I'm sure they can't have had any kind of insurance covering them for this?? It's a shame because one of them seemed perfect aswell
 
be positive said:
I don't think a child can be a "professional" in this situation, as soon as money changes hands they would need to have their own insurance in place to allow them to offer a service and I don't think many insurance companies would take on such a risk, it is expensive enough for adult pros to get full cover, letting a child ride FOC is different although the risk is then yours to cover by insurance and assessment.
I think it may at some point put an end to many share arrangements that are borderline hiring out a horse for reward even if the reward is small, a few similar cases will make insurers take action.

The whole point is that the owner of the horse in this case was proved to be negligent in her actions she did not assess the risk and probably was unaware of it but ignorance is not a defence, accidents happen and if they are genuinely accidental then the owner will not be liable.
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Very true!
There must then surely be more to this story than what has been reported?
 
rowan666 said:
Yes fair point actually but there are many 14 year olds that could have handled the situation, even by the girls account of things it's wasn't as if the horse threw a fit and bolted, she said it bucked and went into canter. It's a terribly tragic accident, I was riding a crazy ex racer when I was younger than that and I would never have sued the owner if I had of had an accident but then I guess sueing wasn't really a thing back then



It is not whether she could cope with it or not it was that she fell off and the result was a broken back, 3 of my worst falls have been standing still, or at least I was standing when it all went pear shaped, 1 I had just got on asked the horse to walk forward and she exploded, I came off down her back with my feet still in the stirrups, another I stupidly asked someone to hold the horse while I put my number bib on instead of getting off, friend did not keep hold and when horse shot forward I went out the back door ending up with hoof marks on my spine, the 3rd was due to young pony taking fright as I mounted came off and was knocked out briefly, I am lucky that no serious damage was done but in any of them I could have broken my neck or back, speed does not always make the fall worse it is how you land and an element of luck, the luck ran out for the young girl in this case.
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The horse is not a ex racehorse in any sense that we would recognise as horse owners. It ran once in a point to point at five and at the time of the accident had not been near a racecourse for many years.

I'm glad the girl won something but it will be a travesty of justice if it bankrupts the owner.

The girl rode the horse at the pre purchase viewing to try it out for the mother.

I will never allow an under eighteen on a horse of mine again, and adults only if they have their own horses and are very competent riders and personal friends.
 
Dreadfully sad and absolutely why I won't have anyone one on my unpredictable youngster unless they are a paid professional with the relevant insurance & experience.

I'm going to share this article with our yard. We've got a few teenagers who will get on "anything" & boast about sitting the bucks etc.
 
rowan666 said:
Yes fair point actually but there are many 14 year olds that could have handled the situation, even by the girls account of things it's wasn't as if the horse threw a fit and bolted, she said it bucked and went into canter. It's a terribly tragic accident, I was riding a crazy ex racer when I was younger than that and I would never have sued the owner if I had of had an accident but then I guess sueing wasn't really a thing back then./QUOTE]

Do you not think that your parents would have gone to court to get the money to enable you to live as well as possible, if you had been as seriously injured as this unfortunate young woman?

The point is that at the time of the accident, the rider was a child, not legally capable of making decisions, and has sustained a life-changing injury. The woman who is legally deemed able to exercise judgement, encouraged the girl to ride the horse in an open field, even though she knew that she herself was over-horsed with it.
The cost of making all the adjustments that this girl needs to allow her to live the rest of her life comfortably as possible has to be met by someone somewhere.
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the rider was a child, not legally capable of making decisions,
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Children of ten are deemed to have reached the age of criminal responsibility. If they can make a decision to murder someone, they can make a decision to ride a horse.

I am glad she gets some money, as long as it comes from an insurance company and not the mother.
 
I came off Jake 5 weeks ago. We were having a gymkhana and he was becoming over excited. I had finished a race so had no stirrups or reins, someone on his off side went to hand something to me and he shot off, I landed on my lower back and fractured my spine. This could easily have been a more serious injury, yet I have only come out with some permanent nerve damage.

Accidents happen, and I think the suing culture is become far too rife for my liking. However I am very sad for the young girl and the things she will miss out on, and will be equally sad for the owner if this accident ruins her life also. An eye for an eye would leave the whole world blind.
 
ycbm said:
Children of ten are deemed to have reached the age of criminal responsibility. If they can make a decision to murder someone, they can make a decision to ride a horse.

I am glad she gets some money, as long as it comes from an insurance company and not the mother.
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However they are not deemed old enough to sign a contract of any kind. The criminal responsibility age is something of an anomaly, as children under 16 are under the age of consent, because they are not considered able to make an informed decision. The judge obviously did not expect the insurance money to cover all that this girl will need for the rest of her life.
 
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