permanent loan problem

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natalie123

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I'm after some advice, I put a gelding on permanent loan approximately 6 years ago, providers being he'd have a good home for the rest of his years. I recieved a phone call today from the police trying to track the owner of the horse and for them to say that my horse had been roaming around on someones land for the last two years! I contacted the gentleman who's land he's been roaming on in an attempt to find out what on earth had happened, and why he hadn't reported it earlier, as my horse is freezemarked and microchipped. He then basically said that he wanted the horse removed within the week and in order for him to release it to me I would have to pay £2000 for costs of livery and feeding the horse over the last two years. I offered that as he'd looked after it for the time I'd hand over ownership, as I don't have the space or finacial support to take the horse back on, hence the reason he was put on loan in the first place! but this was unacceptable to him. I'm in a rather big hole here can anyone pul me out? oh and needless to say that the person I'd originally loaned the horse to is nowhere to be found!
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Jesus.......why the heck didn't the bloke/police/rspca track you down the day your horse started roaming on his land then he wouldn't have incurred 2 years worth of livery? How odd?

I take you didn't have regular contact with the loaners?
 
I'm in gloucestershire, No I didn't sort out a contract suppidly thought that it wouldn't be nessary as the horse is unable to be ridden or should I say won't be ridden and the original plan was that once I got used to the idea of him not being mine anymore I would hand over ownership to the loaner. It's not acctually the police or rspca's fault as the man who owns the land failed to report it untill last night hence at 9 o'clock this morning I had a phone call so in fairness to them they were efficent.
 
Crikey this is awful I'd be broken hearted if it happened to me though the Police have contacted you I suspect this may be yet another welfare case in which case you can sign him over and matey boy can try and sue you for £2K...he has more chance of knitting fog and won't if there are any welfare issues...moreover the opposite...call the ILPH, good luck. where is the horse at the moment?
 
I think I can help on this one as I had a similar problem but in reverse. I had a diy livery who I didn't want in the first place, and she left her horse with me for several months, didn't pay and didn't turn up. When she reappeared after 4 months and tried to take her horse, I tried to stop her taking him and gave her a bill for the four months at full livery rate. I got legal advice and this is what I was told by BHS helpline and NFU legal helpline, plus various police officers:

As the horse was HER property I could not prevent her from taking her property away. The fact that I had fed him for four months had no bearing on the ownership issue.

I could NOT charge her retrospectively for the unpaid livery, my labour and even the feed because I had no written contract with her to say that I was going to do that. I could however start charging her full livery from the day I served her written notice that that was what I was going to do.

I was told to let her take him and then sue for the money, but that without a contract I would not have much chance of getting the money.

So legally he is bluffing at the moment. However you do need to sort it out quickly (well obviously!). Sounds like he is trying it on charging £2000 - probably just got fed up feeding the horse. PM me if you have any other questions that I can perhaps answer.
 
Why let him roam for 2 years before tyring to trace the owner? Poor you - I think the guy is trying it on and is being heartless. I agree that ILPH would probably try and help. Hope you manage to find solution.
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Gulp - yet another reason pointing to me having my boy pts rather than loaning on retirement. I would hate to think that he was left roaming for 2 years and then have someone come back at me for it. It just doesn't seem that loaning works........?

I have a super pony that looks as if he won't be able to be more than a hack anymore. He's a bit of a handful, and I don't think that anybody that just wants to hack will be able to cope with him. What on earth shall I do?
 
I'm sorry to hear about all the problems loaning out your horse has brought you. I agree with Llewelyn, the man hasn't got a leg to stand on as far as the money he wants. I would go to collect him asap and if the man tries to stop you taking your horse phone the police. Legally, he has to let you take your horse back. I would also like to say that not all of us who have horses on permanent loan are like that. I've had my horse for four years now, regulary keep in touch with his owner and have become friends with her. I would never dream of getting rid of my horse, especially to anyone other than the woman i got him from. I hope you manage to resolve this situation without too much upset to yourself
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sorry to hear your plight,makes me sick,its loaners like that that make it hard for people like me looking to loan, i would just turn up and take your horse, if he call the police at least it will get sorted,you dont want the horse being where it,s not wanted, regards,
 
He can't sue you for the £2000. You had no contract with him for him to provide you livery. You do need to go and pick the horse up ASAP though
 
"Quote Gulp - yet another reason pointing to me having my boy pts rather than loaning on retirement. I would hate to think that he was left roaming for 2 years and then have someone come back at me for it. It just doesn't seem that loaning works........?

I have a super pony that looks as if he won't be able to be more than a hack anymore. He's a bit of a handful, and I don't think that anybody that just wants to hack will be able to cope with him. What on earth shall I do?"

There are the right people out there.
I have 5 in loan homes - horses and ponies that were to be put to sleep as they were supposed to be ' bad '.
We have a very difficult case in a loan home, the new owner doing wonders and just wants a hack.
I can see your point. The BHS has the same view, thats why i did not take up the offer to go on the committee!

We need to be vigilant in who we let them go to and stay in touch. We have had over 300 people want one on loan - letting 5 go speaks for itself.
Before i get shot differing views are good with good and bad points in each.
 
if you can not get hold of the original people who you loaned him to then you don't really know how long this man has had him. its only his word that he has been there 2 years. it seems weird to me that he was looking after him all this time ok so what changed. did the loan people now him? or have they just dumped him there? as for the £2k tell him to see you in court
 
i feel for the horse here.......

so for the last 2 YEARS you've had NO contact AT ALL???

to me that is not on....permanent loan or not...he's still YOUR HORSE!!!!!!

this is why i would NEVER loan a horse...what is the point??

you should of sold it....

TBH i hope you have to pay.....
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i feel for the horse here.......

so for the last 2 YEARS you've had NO contact AT ALL???

to me that is not on....permanent loan or not...he's still YOUR HORSE!!!!!!

this is why i would NEVER loan a horse...what is the point??

you should of sold it....

TBH i hope you have to pay.....
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sorry to hear your plight,makes me sick,its loaners like that that make it hard for people like me looking to loan, i would just turn up and take your horse, if he call the police at least it will get sorted,you dont want the horse being where it,s not wanted, regards,

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ARE YOU SERIOUS??

the poor bloody horse isnt wanted at all as the OP has said she'd GIVE the horse to the guy who's got him now rather than pay..whether thats legal i dont really care, TBH..

this mess boils down to ONE person...the poor animals so-called owner...
 
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I'm after some advice, I put a gelding on permanent loan approximately 6 years ago, providers being he'd have a good home for the rest of his years. I recieved a phone call today from the police trying to track the owner of the horse and for them to say that my horse had been roaming around on someones land for the last two years! I contacted the gentleman who's land he's been roaming on in an attempt to find out what on earth had happened, and why he hadn't reported it earlier, as my horse is freezemarked and microchipped. He then basically said that he wanted the horse removed within the week and in order for him to release it to me I would have to pay £2000 for costs of livery and feeding the horse over the last two years. I offered that as he'd looked after it for the time I'd hand over ownership, as I don't have the space or finacial support to take the horse back on, hence the reason he was put on loan in the first place! but this was unacceptable to him. I'm in a rather big hole here can anyone pul me out? oh and needless to say that the person I'd originally loaned the horse to is nowhere to be found!
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sounds total bollox to me.

Roaming for two years? Crap. Especially as you say he is charging you for feeding it etc. Hardly roaming, more like been a pet. I think I would notice if a horse was on my land roaming lol. Unless of course it is in acres upon acres upon acres...
Frankly, even though it was perm. loan, you should have checked at least once a year over the last 6 that the horse was ok, no problems, healthy etc. What is the point in loaning if you don't bother to check on the animal, may as well give it away.

I suggest you pay something towards the upkeep, providing the person can give you an itemised bill showing exactly what you are paying for. Although saying that, as you have offered ownership, it doesn't appear you are that bothered.
 
JM07 - saddly, as many of us know, some people are very happy to pass on their responsibilities to others.

If the horse is not wanted SHOOT IT. Do it a favour.

Irresponsible horse owners make me very angry.
 
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JM07 - saddly, as many of us know, some people are very happy to pass on their responsibilities to others.

If the horse is not wanted SHOOT IT. Do it a favour.

Irresponsible horse owners make me very angry.

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this subject, and buying from "dodgy dealers" comes up SO often on here...

are people REALLY so stupid??

makes me
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are people REALLY so stupid??

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No comment ......................
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i answered my own question didn't i ???
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I've only ever loaned one horse (premenantly) to a family I knew very well and saw regularly for updates.

I would rather sell or shoot the horse as I wouldn't trust most horsey people who want loan horses further than I could throw them...

If you haven't got enough cash to buy a horse you haven't got enough cash to look after one either.
 
I think it is terrible that the poor horse seems to be now unwanted. We took on a loan horse once as the previous loaners had starved it (it was too lively otherwise!!!?) and let it get horrendous rainscald, so a summer on our grass and soem TLC soon sorted it's problems. We then got it back a couple of years later as he had been given back to the owner again as another 'experienced loan home' couldn't cope. His owner was then going to put him down as she couldn't afford to keep him! We heard this and said we'd have him so she handed him to us. He is now 24 and perfectly fit and healthy so it's saddens me that someone considers having their horse PTS just cos they can't be bothered to find anywhere for it. Also there are loanees like ourselves who are responsible and look after an animal in our care.

We have also loaned out my old pony twice and he is a diffcult ride although the two girls that had him on each occasion loved him! However, i would always check on something i had loaned out if that horse is still technically mine so I can't understand how anyone wouldn't permanent loan or not! i see faults on both sides here - of course noone should leave a horse 'roaming' (although the 2 years could be an exaggeration somewhat) but if you are still legally the owner of the horse it is your responsibility to keep check on that horse's welfare surely?
 
why didn't you just sell the horse in the first place??? makes more sense to me???
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poor horse, I think it would be much happier if the ILPH just took it away and rehomed it, somewhere where the people actually give a damn
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I left my 3 in Spain when I left, I obv couldn't check on them often. I haven't seen Cercs for years, because it would break my heart and he is actually at a completely different yard to where I thought he was now - as far as I am concerned he belongs to the old dear who has him now. If she ever wanted anything I would ensure the horse had it, no questions asked, but I don't interfere and the horse world there is small enough for me to hear if things are not right. Luce and Em both died in the care of their loanees.

Just realised the set up I left for my horses makes me a monster in a lot of your eyes
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Thing is though, the permanent loan I left my horses on was handing over ownership if you like, I just didn't want any money for them so I would have a say if anything needed doing - as it was it has all worked out absolutely fine for me but I am feeling that the OP is having a bit of a hard deal on this one - she gave her horse away like I did.
 
I have had 3 horses on loan over the years (didnt know any of the owners before the loan started) and not a single one of them has EVER even phoned to see how their horses were, let alone visited them. Seems amazing to many people, but I think its just a case of out of sight out of mind. I think they are just relieved to get a home that looks ok for their unwanted animal. The thing that shocks me more is that the owner is prepared to now give the horse to someone she has never met and doesnt seem interested in the horses future welfare. She does have a duty of care for the poor animal.
 
I think there are a lot of people out there who just want a free horse, and they give people who are genuinely looking for a horse on loan a bad name! I had mine on loan for 6 month before buying him - that was suposed to be a permanent loan.
Equally I recently put our pony out on loan, and checked on her several times a week initially, just a text message will do - 'how is she doing?'.
I can't quite believe that someone has had a horse out on loan for 6 years!!! and not check on the horse once.
I think you definately need to get the poor horse back, he is your responsibility and had you taken that more seriously all along, you wouldn't be in this mess. I would never be one to condone putting a horse to sleep if a good home can be found, however I think it would be preferable to what is esentially abandoning one!
 
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