personality change in my 4 year old since backing, now hes getting dangerous

Sounds like a Typical 'professional ' yard f¥ck up job.
You can't trust any of these places with a barge pole.
Bet you that your horse was left in 24-7, Hardly fed anything. Exercised sporadically by working pupils for 10 mins 3 times a week if you're lucky. Not mucked out and left with little/no rugs on.

They obviously didn't do right by him. Your horse should come back from a professional yard happy, secure, and looking and behaving superbly. No matter what his age . Anything less is not good enough- I would be looking for a refund !
 
Im afraid that it is because your horse is talented that this has happened and the professional trainer has seen another chance to enhance his reputation and has pushed your horse much too hard too young. I am not a great lover of young horse competitions as to do well they have to be trained to perform at quite a high level before they are ready mentally. Also the conditions that your horse was kept in will not have helped as he appears to have gone from regular turn out to being confined all the time unless being worked. I should think that at the moment he is feeling very confused and shattered mentally as well as physically and as the others have said I think that the best for him will be to turn him away for the winter and allow him to wind down and start him again slowly in the spring.
 
seabsicuit2 said:
Sounds like a Typical 'professional ' yard f¥ck up job.
You can't trust any of these places with a barge pole.
Bet you that your horse was left in 24-7, Hardly fed anything. Exercised sporadically by working pupils for 10 mins 3 times a week if you're lucky. Not mucked out and left with little/no rugs on.

They obviously didn't do right by him. Your horse should come back from a professional yard happy, secure, and looking and behaving superbly. No matter what his age . Anything less is not good enough- I would be looking for a refund !
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This was not the case. No working pupils only ridden by the trainer to a very high standard, I cant give name away but breaks best dressage horses in the country, used by the absolute best in the country, i cant say any more as i do not have a problem with him what so ever. Yes my horse is extremely talanted, potential Badminton, this is why i think problem has occured as he may be talanted but the mind wasnt mature enough to cope. I saw him ridden reguarly he was fantastic and did all that was asked of him with no problems, even shocked trainer with jumping ability.

He was fed 3x daily, hay 3 x daily but did not have the turnout. For some horses this is perfectly acceptable and he never seemed to complain.

All the problems have showed up at home, unless they were hidden at the yard??
 
but did not have the turnout. For some horses this is perfectly acceptable and he never seemed to complain.
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Not acceptable for any horse, unless the horse is on box rest IMO.

Also illegal in Germany and Sweden, IIRC.
 
Faracat said:
Not acceptable for any horse, unless the horse is on box rest IMO.

Also illegal in Germany and Sweden, IIRC.
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Totally agree and in hindsight would never allow it to happen, at the time i listened to alot of professional advice which did not suit my horse at all, but its hard to ignore those at the top of their game.
 
patch1234 - i think you may have summed up the trainer - he breaks horses - if he was the talented professinal he claims to be he would have been on the phone after 6 to 8 weeks saying your lad needs a break now till the spring.... i will book him in then for another 12 weeks - and you would have done it without hesitation.

Many a good horse is ruined by trainers ego's they soon forget that they are not being paid to just do a job, that they are being entrusted with someons pride and joy.

The trainer - i dont care whom he is - was bang out of order - and i bet if you sniff around you will hear of a good many horses whom this ******** has ruined with his ego.
 
My friend has two beautiful and valuable warmbloods that were ruined by a professional dressage trainer, who also worked with "the best". As she herself was a novice, it took her years to get to the point where she could help them, but she has. I doubt that your horse is ruined, it is likely that with a good break and the right care he will come right again.
By the way, some horses look really settled, extremely relaxed, when in a new environment. It can be misleading, the can be shut down. Sometimes we don't realise until they come away from that situation and start to "express" themselves.
 
Ah professional riders... The work of the Devil...

Sorry too many people on here saying that professionals are no good. So we should all have our horses on DIY livery and no one else is allowed to touch them, let alone ride them?

We don't know where the horse has been sent, nor do we know the horse or the owner, so jumping to conclusions about any is not on (especially if someone figures out who the pro is, and then a reputation gets ruined).

One of my horses was far happier on a pros yard with little turnout than he was turned out 24/7.
 
Wench, not all pro's are bad. Very quick learners that have everything together physically are the easiest to ruin mentally. The damage is done before you know it. I don't think they did anything cruel. Just went a bit too fast for him mentally. Not intentionally. This trainer obviously deals with many nice horses. The OP's horse seems extra special and riding that was probably a treat.

He will be fine eventually. OP knows what she's at. An ulcer protocol certainly couldn't hurt with vet advice.

Good luck with your talented youngster.

Terri
 
I don't see people jumping to conclusions, I see them trying to work out what is going on with this horse based on facts given. I also think it would be really difficult to try to work out which "professional" is involved from the thread, so no reputations are harmed! A professional is someone taking money for what they do, so inevitably there will be some who are better than others.
 
Your horse was in a happy environment and routine. He was sent away to unfamiliar surroundings to be educated by people he had no bond with at all. He has been deprived of his normal daily routine and unable to get any relaxation in a field because he is confined to his stable. He has probably also been fed different feed. All these things will effect him and will potentially have blown his mind. Now you have got him back get him back in to the relaxed daily routine he was used to before sending him away but I would suspect it is going to take some time for him to come right.
 
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Turn him away, please.

I can understand the temptation to a trainer to carry on with a talented horse but it does them no favours to ask so much of them mentally.

We back ours, then turn away. Later we start them properly and turn them away again. They never forget what they have learned and they have the time to relax and not worry. From your description of his behaviour I think you risk long term damage unless you take radical steps to change things now. A break in the field, just being a horse, would do him the world of good.

Also, I took from your posts that he is fine to handle when outside. That must tell you something? He NEEDS time off to chill out.
 
Stick him I a field for winter, chuck him hay and a bucket and just leave him alone to grow and mature and bring him back next spring and I'm sure he will be fine .
Don't bear yourself up over this , some horses would of coped , he didn't you did not know this would happen. It's not your fault and its fixable a decent break will see him right.

Forget 4 year old classes, just let him chill out. He has many years to prove himself.
 
wench said:
Ah professional riders... The work of the Devil...

Sorry too many people on here saying that professionals are no good. So we should all have our horses on DIY livery and no one else is allowed to touch them, let alone ride them?

We don't know where the horse has been sent, nor do we know the horse or the owner, so jumping to conclusions about any is not on (especially if someone figures out who the pro is, and then a reputation gets ruined).

One of my horses was far happier on a pros yard with little turnout than he was turned out 24/7.
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I have no problem with people sending horses away. Mine went for six weeks and has only been back a month! BUT clearly in this case it has done the horse no favours at all. My horse came back MORE relaxed than when she went not less unlike in the OP's case.

The horse was happy and chilled and is now a nervous wreck with a stable vice. Hardly ideal.Something has gone wrong in this instance. I don't think it's jumping to conclusions to point this out :confused:
 
Have you spoken to the trainer and asked them whether this is normal for how your horse was when he was there?

Is it possible to get him out to see him and possibly ride him?

I sent one of mine on training livery after weaning a foal, and he involved me every step of the way, yes we did have some issues when she came home but with his help I worked through them.
 
What does the trainer say about this devastating change in your horse's personality? If I heard that a horse that was backed here had gone home to behave in a totally out-of-character way, I'd be over to the owner's yard like a shot - to SEE what was so different - and to see if the problem was associated with people - or with place.

There are a number of possible causes for this 'change' - even if he was sympathetically treated at the trainer's yard. The trainer should be the one to look for them - and help you put them right. Turning him out and 'leaving him' for the winter is unlikely to be the cure!
 
JG I think this will be the first time I have ever disagreed with anything you have written!!

This was a young horse, pushed extremely hard, for 12 weeks and who went from being out 24/7 to stabled 24/7 in that same period. I think his mind has been blown and he needs turning away to learn how to relax and be a horse again.
 
Hmm sounds like it is a case of so much of a change and stress that it has blown his mind. This is exactly why I am thinking very carefully about sending mine away to be broken as I think my boy would react in this way too. 12 weeks of hard work is a lot of a 4 year old, especially with the fact he hasnt been going out and he is in a different place, with different people and feed, etc. Turn him away for the winter and give him some time to settle back in.
 
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if the horse was settled and happy at the trainers throughout his time away and only started acting this way when he returned home to his baby routine, perhaps it is this routine which is distressing him? Perhaps he needs the work and stimulation?
 
I think the horse has been 'overcooked' - he is at home now and feels he can 'express' himself to you as the owner OP and this is why you are seeing this extreme behaviour. He could have ulcers if he got stressed at the trainers.

I would as others have said turn him away for the winter and let him be a baby horse for a few months - it will pay back dividends I am sure.

I did exactly this with my WB last winter - he had also been 'overcooked' whilst in pain and abused. The break gave him time to sort his head out and this summer he has been a different horse; happy and chilled.
 
Horses mind has been blown I reckon from the intensity of work & then change of routine when you brought him back. Turn away for the winter, possibly look at doing lots of ground work with him & bring him back into light work for the Spring. Horse in only 4, there is now rushing just to get him to the 4YO classes.. too much too soon will also make him stale in couple yrs time.
 
Cortez said:
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if the horse was settled and happy at the trainers throughout his time away and only started acting this way when he returned home to his baby routine, perhaps it is this routine which is distressing him? Perhaps he needs the work and stimulation?
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These are my thoughts as well, if he is a super talented he probably thrives on work, are you sure he is not taking the mick and seeing how far he can push you? Maybe you dont do things in the same way as the trainer and thats confusing him? Just remember it might not be him with the faults.
 
amymay said:
OP I would now turn him away until the spring - give him a complete break.
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This. I assume he was clipped out though for this level of work so gentle roughing off. Let him be a horse again and if you don't have 24/7 turnout, I personally would consider moving him to retired/youngstock grazing until the end of Feb ish.

Best of luck - you obviously really care about your boy - I'm sure not all is lost.

x
 
JanetGeorge said:
What does the trainer say about this devastating change in your horse's personality? If I heard that a horse that was backed here had gone home to behave in a totally out-of-character way, I'd be over to the owner's yard like a shot - to SEE what was so different - and to see if the problem was associated with people - or with place.

There are a number of possible causes for this 'change' - even if he was sympathetically treated at the trainer's yard. The trainer should be the one to look for them - and help you put them right. Turning him out and 'leaving him' for the winter is unlikely to be the cure!
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Unlikely that anyone is going to let an owner see them working a horse unsympathetically, or any negative aspect of their horse care. Particularly if that owner is returning to find out why their horse has come home weaving and stressed even with simple tasks like rugging.
Even if a horse is "super talented" and "thrives on work" you shouldn't see the sort of changes that op is describing just because they come home to a slightly more relaxed routine. And if that is to be expected then surely there is something wrong with the world of horse training?
 
Tinypony said:
Unlikely that anyone is going to let an owner see them working a horse unsympathetically, or any negative aspect of their horse care. Particularly if that owner is returning to find out why their horse has come home weaving and stressed even with simple tasks like rugging.
Even if a horse is "super talented" and "thrives on work" you shouldn't see the sort of changes that op is describing just because they come home to a slightly more relaxed routine. And if that is to be expected then surely there is something wrong with the world of horse training?
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Maybe but the OP could be the one causing the problem. Maybe the horse doesnt like being fussed and fannied with. He maybe thrives on a no-nonsense routine now.
 
kirstykate said:
Maybe but the OP could be the one causing the problem. Maybe the horse doesnt like being fussed and fannied with. He maybe thrives on a no-nonsense routine now.
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There may be a bit of that involved. He may have settled into a new routine that kept him busy - and tired. He may be missing the work and testing the boundaries. But it seems rather more than that. I suspect he may have developed ulcers due to the strict routine, lack of turnout, and perhaps rather harsh discipline. But I still think the trainer should be the first port of call. He KNOWS the horse - none of us (except the ower of course) do.

And even if his brain IS fried, I don't think immediate turning away is the way to go. He will spend the winter remembering HOW he earned a holiday!! He'll remember his last behaviours - and they're bad. He needs to be brought back into hand - kindly but firmly - and THEN be let-up forf a short while!
 
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