personality change in my 4 year old since backing, now hes getting dangerous

I wouldn't be in a rush to turn the horse away, just to go against the grain.

Sounds like he's come back ready for action with muscle and condition and somewhat overstimulated. I bet if the trainer had him back he would be sweet as a nut under saddle but slowly develop stable vices.

If he were mine I would reestablish my relationship with the horse with ground work, he will be needing to know where his place is in the world after the change,. I would completely stop giving hard food, and ensure he gets lots of turn out and time with his mates.

He would pretty much be rebacked, slowly and kindly, lots of ground work & lunging/long reining to get him to accept life isn't wildly exciting and then aim to be hacking quietly again before turning him away for a couple of months after Christmas.
 
JanetGeorge said:
There may be a bit of that involved. He may have settled into a new routine that kept him busy - and tired. He may be missing the work and testing the boundaries. But it seems rather more than that. I suspect he may have developed ulcers due to the strict routine, lack of turnout, and perhaps rather harsh discipline. But I still think the trainer should be the first port of call. He KNOWS the horse - none of us (except the ower of course) do.

And even if his brain IS fried, I don't think immediate turning away is the way to go. He will spend the winter remembering HOW he earned a holiday!! He'll remember his last behaviours - and they're bad. He needs to be brought back into hand - kindly but firmly - and THEN be let-up forf a short while!
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It very well could be ulcers, but if the horse is as good as the OP states then he will have a quirk or 2!! Horses can change with work, and there is a possibility that he is too much for his owner now, maybe its a mans horse now. I dont think it should be turned away either until the issues have been resolved.
 
amymay said:
OP I would now turn him away until the spring - give him a complete break.
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I would do ^^^ but I would still bring him in the stable at nights and have him tied up and groomed

Please dont beat yourself up about it you did what you truly believed was the right thing.. We have all dont things which in hindsight we would not have done but that's life we live and learn.

Please keep us updated x
 
dornrose said:
Have you spoken to the trainer and asked them whether this is normal for how your horse was when he was there?

Is it possible to get him out to see him and possibly ride him?

I sent one of mine on training livery after weaning a foal, and he involved me every step of the way, yes we did have some issues when she came home but with his help I worked through them.
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Oooo I do like this Idea
 
I wouldn't turn him away either. The horse you sent was a soft, unfit horse, he has come back to you fit and ready to do things. At the pros yard he wouldn't have been fussed with, he would have just been handled in a professional manner. You obviously sent him to that particular trainer as you want him to be your competition horse and that's what they have produced.
Imo you need to carry on and crack on with him, work him in th manner he has come accustomed to. Get him out and about and then see if he settles. If he is weaving put a grill up, if he is naughty to handle tie him up. He is no longer the pet you sent he is a fine tuned sports horse and needs to handled like one.
 
charlie76 said:
I wouldn't turn him away either. The horse you sent was a soft, unfit horse, he has come back to you fit and ready to do things. At the pros yard he wouldn't have been fussed with, he would have just been handled in a professional manner. You obviously sent him to that particular trainer as you want him to be your competition horse and that's what they have produced.
Imo you need to carry on and crack on with him, work him in th manner he has come accustomed to. Get him out and about and then see if he settles. If he is weaving put a grill up, if he is naughty to handle tie him up. He is no longer the pet you sent he is a fine tuned sports horse and needs to handled like one.
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I agree with you 100%. A pet and a competition horse are often not the same thing.
 
A fit and ready for battle 4 YO with 12 weeks from time of starting groundwork. Nah, that wasn't rushing it was it?

To each his own I suppose. It's why I like mine to start at 3. Do the basics for about 6 weeks then off. Go again in the fall for a bit more progression and another break. Early part of they're 4 YO year you know what you have. Some can zip right on and never have an issue. Some are mentally or physically behind or both and need a different program.

But I never go from doing nothing to now you're a competition horse, deal with it. It's always the funniest thing to me that people think you're a butcher if you start at 3 but yet think 4 is the magical age in which because they're physically ready the mental must be there. I've had people call to find out exactly how many weeks their 4yo needs because in 8 weeks time they have a clinic lined up and 2 weeks after that they have shows picked out. Nothing like giving them everything all at once. Oh but surely at 4 they're physically ready so no consideration for anything else. And you all think it's the age a horse is broken that means they'll stay physically and mentally sound for a long career. Not necessarily true. Some horses are washed up before their time because no one ever thought it might be pushing them mentally rather than physically.

Terri
 
jesstickle said:
I'm sorry? if he weaves just put a grill up? Seriously?

:( :(
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And ignore the fact he is clearly unhappy :confused: - nice :rolleyes:

Sounds like the trainer has done a proper number on this horse. Id want him out to see him and Id want answers as to what the eff has happened. Did you see him being worked at the 'professionals' OP?

Im not sure you can turn him away in such a bad place, I think him living out might help with some of the vices and stress he has clearly been put under. Id also be starting him on bachs remedies and adding chamomile flowers to his tea - but thats just me - id prefer a horse happy in himself than one shut in a cage but not annoying people with a vice such as weaving/biting etc.
 
Thank you for all the comments.

Yes I did want a fit competition horse but I also wanted him to be happy and obviously something went wrong.

Could the problem be me? Thats a difficult one to answer. I am not a novice im a stage 3 BHS and have worked in racing, hunting and competition yards with the same type of horse which mine now is, the difference is this one is mine and i dont want him unhappy.

He did go off as a pet and came back a competition horse but why on earth cant he be both, a happy competition horse or am i missing something??

My yard is very very relaxed so maybe this is now a problem? he used to love it and was happy as Larry. I own my own yard so no liveries ect.

My biggest dilema now is should he go back into work or turn away (will come in at night).

I want the best for him
 
patch1234 said:
Thank you for all the comments.

Yes I did want a fit competition horse but I also wanted him to be happy and obviously something went wrong.

Could the problem be me? Thats a difficult one to answer. I am not a novice im a stage 3 BHS and have worked in racing, hunting and competition yards with the same type of horse which mine now is, the difference is this one is mine and i dont want him unhappy.

He did go off as a pet and came back a competition horse but why on earth cant he be both, a happy competition horse or am i missing something??

My yard is very very relaxed so maybe this is now a problem? he used to love it and was happy as Larry. I own my own yard so no liveries ect.

My biggest dilema now is should he go back into work or turn away (will come in at night).

I want the best for him
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You're not missing anything - something has gone badly badly wrong. Id be getting an IHRA out. A competition horse has no need to be any difference to any other horse at grass roots and as a 4 yr old just brought into work he is NOT a 'competition horse' in the sense it is being used on here.
 
patch1234 said:
He did go off as a pet and came back a competition horse but why on earth cant he be both, a happy competition horse or am i missing something??
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He hasn't come back as a competition horse - he's come back as a newly broken in youngster.

My own view is turn him away and pick him up in the spring. Or if you're determined to keep him in work, hunt him.

Lots of posts on here reading far too much in to his behaviour.
 
When I say competition horse I mean ability to eventually compete and has talent to do so if all goes to plan.

I have had lots of people ask for trainers name. Please understand I have absolutely no problem with my trainers riding ability or methods of training that i saw under saddle, I saw my horse ridden weekly and the improvements were fantastic. My trainer is sympathetic and kind but firm when needed, he is a competion rider so is of the mind the horse has to do his job, but not to beat it into submission.

The problems are on the ground and stable management when he returned home.

Of course I have no idea what was happening when I wasnt there but I cant imagine he was cruel in any way.

I have realised one thing in that professional competition riders are different to the every day casual rider and may be that is something I have to understand.
 
patch1234 said:
When I say competition horse I mean ability to eventually compete and has talent to do so if all goes to plan.

I have had lots of people ask for trainers name. Please understand I have absolutely no problem with my trainers riding ability or methods of training that i saw under saddle, I saw my horse ridden weekly and the improvements were fantastic. My trainer is sympathetic and kind but firm when needed, he is a competion rider so is of the mind the horse has to do his job, but not to beat it into submission.

The problems are on the ground and stable management when he returned home.

Of course I have no idea what was happening when I wasnt there but I cant imagine he was cruel in any way.

I have realised one thing in that professional competition riders are different to the every day casual rider and may be that is something I have to understand.
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I would say your boy thrives on the busy yards, many a competition horse can not cope with the quieter life. I would keep him in work and maybe be a little more workman like around him on the ground, and dont be afraid to tell him off. He is at that age where he will be pushing the boundaries. He could also be rather confused by the whole thing.
 
amymay said:
Competition horses aren't made in 12 weeks. And what relevance does a Badminton horses vs your local 'plod' have to this thread?
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Well it wont be far off it, why else do we have 4 yr old classes, it has a relevance in that your local plug is far easier to look after than you top class horses.
 
kirstykate said:
Well it wont be far off it, why else do we have 4 yr old classes, it has a relevance in that your local plug is far easier to look after than you top class horses.
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4 year old classes are for potential, and there's no difference (generally speaking) in looking after your top class horse and your local little plod.

And before you ask me - yes, I do have the experience to say that.

Anyway we digress. OP has a newly broken in horse and needs to know best how to manage him.

Some good advice on this thread - so hopefully it will help.
 
amymay said:
4 year old classes are for potential, and there's no difference (generally speaking) in looking after your top class horse and your local little plod.

And before you ask me - yes, I do have the experience to say that.

Anyway we digress. OP has a newly broken in horse and needs to know best how to manage him.

Some good advice on this thread - so hopefully it will help.
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Indeed, but these top horses thrive on work and a busy environment thats what makes them special;)
 
I think the most sensible thing would be to go back to the trainer and ask him for his opinion on what has happened and what to do. But feel free to ask him outright whether he thinks that 12 weeks of no turnout and being ridden everyday (albeit ridden well and sympathetically) might have been a little too much for him, and if so, what steps should be taken next.
 
OP I feel for you so much. It must be heartbreaking for you.

I personally would never turn away a horse that was not going well as although I agree he probably was worked too much too soon I think just turning him away now would be counter productive and he may be exactly the same as he is now when you start him again.

I would concentrate on groundwork exercises more to try and help to rebuild your bond, maybe go for a few hacks but all low key and no pressure.

I would also be getting the usual checks done + maybe checking for or treating for ulcers as all if this behaviour could be pain related.
 
amymay said:
Sometimes, true - but not always;)
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Beat me to it!

I only know about race horses but we had some that were sharp and some that were absolute dopes. Why should every fit 'competition' horse be some kind of fruit loop on the ground?!

O and probably quite relevantly of all the ones that I knew that went off to be 'normal' horses only one really wouldn't settle as a common plod given time to adjust. He went to the racing school. Most of them were quite happy pootling about...
 
amymay said:
Sometimes, true - but not always;)

And we're not discussing a top horse here, merely a newly broken in youngster (don't I sound like a broken record??)
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you do but an accurate one.

to my thinking if these 'competition horses' that have never been to a copmetition are more special than the 'plugs' then they would need more sympathetic 'breaking' (i prefer backing horses to breaking them myself) rather than less.

OP i agree with a previous poster if you are happy with the trainer and their methods then speak to them and ask for sme advice
 
In my view it really sounds like a job for a good equine vet.
I would also be having the trainer round to see what's going on.
If I bought a youngster home from such a yard it would have home one day in work the next I would be leading out from another horse in walk a bit of lunging and gentle work in the school and generally getting the horse to wind down over say six weeks before a break.
The handling issues and the weaving would worry me far more than the horse being an idiot on the lunge that's why I would be getting the vet pronto if the horse where mine.
 
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