Pesky 4 year old - posted in picture lounge accidently too

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elsielouise

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Just looking for some alternative easy to implement ideas for my rising 5 year old cob. This is long sorry but the detail might help...and posted in wrong place in picture lounge too as not paying attention - just realised, won't let me delete it there either.

Anyway - Had her about 8 months now but turned her away in November after a wolf tooth out and a back problem was sorted(reared a couple of times with my helper). She'd done nothing but light hack last summer and so I decided would start her again this spring.

Am now working on gaining her respect on the ground before I start ridden work as she is really bargy and constantly invades personal space. She also constantly nibbles and bites everything from zips to wellies to jeans and of course hands. I don't hand feed her anything and have had a helper and my OH doing a lot of handling most of the winter which I think has contributed.

Anyway, I'm able to spend time with her every day now and am trying to teach her 'stand' where I walk round her and she stands still and 'no' every time she goes to nibble.

Problem is she doesn's seem to care one jot about voice commands and I've today resorted to telling her sharply 'no' twice, then on the third time a flick on the nose. Have had the most success with this but it doesn't feel very positive as a method.

She does respond to me making myself big and asking her to go back but only when it suits her and will barge out the stable if she feels like it. Spent an hour the other day leading her in and out to stop this and she hasn't done it since but has come a bit close.

I wonder if she was either weaned very early or very late (would it make a difference?) and is mouthing everything but has discovered her strength- she's just like my older mre was when she was six months old and she was weaned at 4 months as mare died). Fixed my older mare with voice commands and several times a day handling but this one is just 'dead to voice' it seems.

She's an Irish cob so wonder also if she hasnt just been yelled at and pushed around by a bloke as she's much better with my OH and doesn't do it with my farrier either?

SORRY about length...
 
No time at the moment for a long reply, but it sounds like she thinks you are a bit of a pushover!

Maybe try getting a be nice headcollar and being firmer with her?
 
hmmmmmmmm I couldn't be less of a pushover really though I accept that's what she perhaps thinks. My other horse is a big WBx and her manners are delightful. Had her since she was weaned and brought her through this stage, as mentioned, with voice and body language. This one ignores it all.

I've used pressure halters before but unsure how that will stop her biting or make her stop 'stepping about' when I want a stand although it will help with the barging and may make her think.

By 'being firmer' what do you suggest? I'm consistent with voice and body language so it's not a lack of that. Her routine is established and she never gets away with anything. She just never seems to stop trying.

She simply seems to just not care. Maybe she's not very bright - She's the sort who, for instance was tied up outside her stable, managed to back up into the water trough and then ended up with one foot in the trough of water without actually caring it was cold and wet. Then again she picks up buckets and throws them out of her stable when she's finished eating so maybe I should just work with her and teach her some tricks...
 
I have had my gypsy cob since 13 months - he can be a cheeky little bugger though never nasty. He has a great personality and is very intelligent and has the potential to be a total s*d if not kept in check.

Unlike my TBs, he needs a far firmer touch to get messages through on occasion. A gentle prod on a finger made the TBs move over, I had to resort to a few hard flicks with a rope to get same result - he knew what I wanted but a finger, fist or elbow prod meant bugger all.

He soon realised that a gentle prod or voice command was better obeyed or Mr Flicky Rope came out. This has been the case with most things - do it on nice command or I won't be so nice on second request. However, this is only with things that he knows what is expected of him.

He nipped once - firm slap stopped him immediately, ditto striking out - each time I kicked him back harder on offending until he got the message - took about a week and 6 kicks.

I have never beaten him and he is the most friendly chap - but is not frightened of anything and will given half a chance push his limits.

Mine needs to be in some sort of work all the time - he needs to think or he gets bored and destructive and this has been the case since 18 months. May I suggest you get the ground rules quickly established asap before she walks all over you. She should back up immediately you ask her - if not flick her chest with a rope and harder each time until the message is got through. At the end a word command should do it.

I am not saying beat her, but toughen up and give her consistent firm messages and be prepared to need a rope to flick if hand pressure does not work. Do a little something with her every day to ensure that you are the leader in your relationship.
 
Maybe it is the mix of cob and clever then. Am used to sensitive WB and TB types too and all mine usually move from a finger too. Don't get me wrong this one NEVER gets away with anything but we have to re-inforce EVERY day and have had to since I got her.

She planted her hind legs when I got her - had never had back feet lifted and so I used a rope initially to get her to lift. She tried to kick a couple of times and I growled at her and booted her back then too I think. She doesn't do it now.

Just not used to using too much brute force and it wouldn't be the right response when for example, all she is doing is sticking her nose in my pocket. Then, if I ignore that she licks my pocket, then bites it and next thing I know she's grabbed my zip and has half my jacket in her gob!

Just want her to learn 'no' <sigh>
 
Hmm, think cobs/native breeds just tend to be a lot more intelligent and will try and see what they can get by pushing the boundaries. Unfortunately I think WBs can tend to be alittle bit more dim (don't want to offend) but the cob types are so inquisitive and want to put things in their mouths.

my sisters young horse (4) used to try nip a lot if you ever out your hand to the side of his face. He has been shouted at several times and i think stopped doing it without us even noticing - he's just grown up (he's 8 now). They just use their mouths to investigate so it will go with time when they find their 'investigating' doesn't get them anywhere. Maybe try flick a whip at the front legs/chest if she continues nipping if she doesn't repond to a 'no' command. It is risky slapping them aroudn the face area as you don't want to end up making them headshy but their legs are quite sensitive so a little tap will get a repsonse and is also useful to use when asking the horse to go back or halt when you're on the ground - ie they try step forward a "stand" command and tap on the knee/leg to get them to put the leg, that they were trying to step forward with, back where it came from eventually gets through!
 
Ooh an more of a "ah ah" loud and sharp noise as opposed to "No" when reprimanding for nipping may work better?
 
Tried that. And a 'growl' and a 'flippin get off you daft ***'.
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Not all at the same time of course... see note about consistency! Just decided 'no' was something my helper and OH could also use.

S'prolly just because she is a cob and I haven't had one before... and she's not been in work. More telling off required, more work and perhaps just me doing her for a while rather than OH and helper.
 
Not all horses will respond to loud voice commands... unfortunately, no matter how much growling, shouting and shrieking you do.
Actions speak louder than words and it looks like your horse has well and truly got you in your place.
Your certainly right about starting out with good ground work, after all, if he does not respect you on the ground, then you'll have fun and games on board!
Your horse is nipping because he's testing how far he can go, how much he can dominate you, you see this in youngsters that have been turned out with each other, its not because your horse dislikes you, its very natural behavior but as you know this must stop now before it gets dangerous and pushes the boundaries too far and injures you or someone else.

Small taps on the nose won't really help, its annoying and will make him head shy and problem won't take much notice to be honest, you don't see horses tapping each other on the noses in the field if they have a disagreement so why should your horse take notice of you doing that?
You need to distance him from you so he does not get the opportunity to nip at your jacket, step on your toes, head butt you, pinch your legs, barge out of the stable (yes I been there too) doing this and you are already avoiding an argument, ones less argument to tackle, after all who wants to be shouting and hitting there horses if we can avoid such instances....we all have to take a step back and think firstly what I am doing wrong rather than what the horse is doing wrong.

A sharp hard elbow in the neck, side of face will warn him to stand back and away, it will hurt and it will shock him, sounds harsh but you will only have to do it once or twice before he gets the message, everytime he puts his face in your space you must react quickly with the same sharp elbow, he must learn to walk with you but not right at the side/front or behind, once he learns that's the right place ..a comfortable place he will accept this and be happy.

Learn him to back off, pushing him with your hands will not work, your horse is bigger, stronger and he knows this. Using the end of your whip to prod him quite hard in the chest as you say back will be very uncomfortable, it won't hurt him. Before you know it he will back up with just the words 'back' and will be willing and happy to do so. Again moving him over use the end of the whip not to flick, beat him with but to poke near his flanks, certain places on a horses act with pressure and sometimes take only one sharp prod/press to ask for movement and they will remember for ever more.
Always always reward, a gentle stroke in soft voice is all it takes. No need for mints and carrots, you don't see horses rewarding eaching with nibbles because one horse has moved out of the way of another when there grazing in fields because this is basic manners and respect which should established without needing to reward.

I had a cob exactly like yours, after a few months doing the right things, asking the right way, I could contol him off the lead rein, backing up, walking on, moving in circles both directions around me all with just hand signals.

Never loose your patience, stay calm and quiet and always finish on good note, dont put yourself into circumstances where you will both wind each other up, takes time but you will get there.
 
So agree with what you say - you do have to be tougher with these chaps than TBs etc. With Chancer the flicking rope - harder each time and the occasional kick to his leg and hard elbow in the rib has been the only way to get through. I could stand and scream until my throat bled, ditto the finger - it would be worn away if I gently poked him.

They do soon learn that the first time asked gently is best to be obeyed. Nearly all the time now, Chancer moves on a tap with a finger/voice but only because he knows the second ask will involve a rope flick or really hard poke. Every now and then he looks at you to say "so what", and out comes the rope and he instantly remembers his manners, often before I do anything. It is less and less required as he has grown up.

My chap uses his mouth a lot and I do give him some slack as he is very very gentle but he knows never to nip or bite (actually loves to sniff and lick my OH's jacket and hair).
 
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