Pessoa Legend or Bates Elevation?

[CastlelackSportHorses]

I have the option of buying one or the other.
Only 100quid difference in the price, but I cannot trial the Pessoa.

Both interchangeable gullets(though the pessoa gullets are hard to find) both black, both same size.

Anyone have experience with either saddles?
Pros and Cons?

 

[ihatework]

I’ve found the bates to be generally good saddles and if it’s the one you can trial to see if it fits, then that’s the one I’d go for.

 

[sbloom]

Any information on how they would fit the horse and you? Ultimately they're the only things that really matters. Bates more expensive new than Pessoa, very different panel types and balance points, Pessoa SHOULD be fitted as a forward balance saddle but that depends on it fitting the rider appropriately, Bates is more regular mid to rear balance point. Forward balance can be better but only if it works for both of you, not a recommendation as such...

I agree that being able to trial is a big factor, also how good the price is so that you can resell easily.

 

[little_critter]

Any information on how they would fit the horse and you? Ultimately they're the only things that really matters. Bates more expensive new than Pessoa, very different panel types and balance points, Pessoa SHOULD be fitted as a forward balance saddle but that depends on it fitting the rider appropriately, Bates is more regular mid to rear balance point. Forward balance can be better but only if it works for both of you, not a recommendation as such...

I agree that being able to trial is a big factor, also how good the price is so that you can resell easily.

Out of interest would you be able to explain what a forward balance saddle is? It’s not a term I’m familiar with.

 

[w1bbler]

Is this for the horse you previously asked for fitting advise on? You said on that post that you had been advised Bates isn't suitable. You need to take advise from someone who has seen your horse, not which saddle randomers on the Internet prefer

 

[Aleka81]

I can't totally comment on fit etc. But my Elevation is my all time favourite saddle ever! The only one I will never loan out for people to try as it's way too precious too me.

 

[sbloom]

Out of interest would you be able to explain what a forward balance saddle is? It’s not a term I’m familiar with.

It's seldom addressed (or trained) in British type saddle fitting (which influences the world of course) so not surprised you've not heard of it.

Where is the lowest part of the seat, and the widest, in relation to the stirrup bar? The further forward, also relative to seat size, the more forward balance the saddle is. It places the rider more over the centre of gravity of the horse, as well as making it much easier to get their leg underneath them, and makes the rider easier to carry. However it creates a different model of saddle fitting, one that does not rely on gusseted panels to stabilise the saddle on the whole, or spread weight, so if they're not fitted correctly, or there is significant asymmetry etc in the horse and/or rider then they may cause more problems than they solve.

If fitted correctly they are likely to help the horse move with much more ease, and help them to be in better balance, less wear and tear on the body ultimately. But those are a lot of ifs!

 

[mini-eventer]

It's seldom addressed (or trained) in British type saddle fitting (which influences the world of course) so not surprised you've not heard of it.

Where is the lowest part of the seat, and the widest, in relation to the stirrup bar? The further forward, also relative to seat size, the more forward balance the saddle is. It places the rider more over the centre of gravity of the horse, as well as making it much easier to get their leg underneath them, and makes the rider easier to carry. However it creates a different model of saddle fitting, one that does not rely on gusseted panels to stabilise the saddle on the whole, or spread weight, so if they're not fitted correctly, or there is significant asymmetry etc in the horse and/or rider then they may cause more problems than they solve.

If fitted correctly they are likely to help the horse move with much more ease, and help them to be in better balance, less wear and tear on the body ultimately. But those are a lot of ifs!

That makes sense to me. I used to teach and one of the working liveries had a lovely bates It did tend to put some riders in more of a chair position, and they struggled to get their legs underneath them. I assume the saddle was not a great fit for these riders

 

[sbloom]

That makes sense to me. I used to teach and one of the working liveries had a lovely bates It did tend to put some riders in more of a chair position, and they struggled to get their legs underneath them. I assume the saddle was not a great fit for these riders

This is on a similar theme, as is my "why can't saddle fitters agree" post - https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog-and-resources/the-search-for-knee-room

 

[little_critter]

I once had a schoolmaster lesson on a horse wearing a saddle that just didn’t work for me. I kept being told to get my legs back under me and I simply couldn’t because the saddle kept sending them forward.
It was a rather wasted lesson.

 

[mini-eventer]

This is on a similar theme, as is my "why can't saddle fitters agree" post - https://stephaniebloomsaddlefitter.co.uk/blog-and-resources/the-search-for-knee-room

Thanks for sharing this, it makes a lot of sense

 

[Jango]

I always think posts like this are crazy! You need a saddle which fits your horse and also you. My friend is taller and slim with a big ID, I'm small and a bit chunkier with a lighter mare. We have the same saddler, do the same kind of thing, but very different saddles. If we swapped horses we'd probably both need different saddles again!

You need a saddler who understands how to fit to you and your horse, then take their advice and don't buy anything you can't ride in!