Pessoa/Whitaker Training Aid - Opinions

[Aoibhinn]

hey guys, this could be a bit long so bear with me!

Had saddler out yesterday to have a look at the horses. My TB x Connemara has very little top line and has two hollows (I suppose?) on either side of his withers. Saddler said to me to try and do as little ridden work as possible for the next 6-8 weeks. Lunge him and get him working long and low to build up the top line.

He suggested using a Pessoa or a John Whitaker training aid on him. I have heard of them but haven't ever used one and was just wondering what people thing about using them. I suggested maybe lunging him in a roller and side reins? I wouldn't be keen on using anything if all it was going to do was force him into a false outline. I would appreciate any comments/reviews on them thanks!

 

[cornbrodolly]

You answered your own question - All these so called aids do is force an outline. How can that build correct muscles? Ride him in a natural head carriage , hacking him at walk and trot,for increasingly long periods , this is how to build muscle and get the horse fit. The way your saddler [ and who is to say the saddler is an expert?!] suggests is boring and wont have the desired effect. There are no short cuts to a getting a fit and well muscled horse ,despite claims made from the gadget makersGood luck and enjoy your riding.

 

[Henry02]

You answered your own question - All these so called aids do is force an outline. How can that build correct muscles? .

No they don't... Search for the kerilli lunging method on here.

If your horse likes to think it's a cross between and camel and a giraffe (like mine) riding it with a "natural" head carriage will build up muscles in all the wrong places if you let him do what he wants

 

[saddlesore]

They get a hard time in here but I think they're great if fitted correctly. I only ever use a straight nathe to lunge in and always use the setting between their legs. I then adjust the front section so that the horse comes down and forward to seek the contact. I e never seen one of mine 'sock themselves in the mouth' but admittedly I've never had a big moving warm blood.

 

[Shay]

Its early in this post but I'm sure the negative responses will come... Like Saddlesore I do use a Pessoa and they do have their uses. They need to be correctly fitted - not tight and it helps to completely understand how they work and why. The absolutely should not "sock the horse in the mouth" warmblood or not! In my experience side reins can cause the horse to drop back behind the bridle; unless they are so loose as to not be of much use; I prefer a pessoa or a lungie bungie, depending on what I am trying to achieve that that particular time. Lunging without some support will simply allow your horse to go around in the same position he has been in; continuing to build the wrong muscles. He needs gentle help to train himself better. You are right to consider things with an open mind.

 

[Aoibhinn]

Thanks for the replies I wasn't sure whether to try one or not because I have heard a lot of negative things counteracting the positive ones. The problem is that I need to keep off his back to allow more blood flow to the muscles so that they can be built up. Hence, he needs to be lunged and long reined for the next 6-8 weeks. There really isn't much of a point in lunging him without any support as he will be working the wrong muscles then.

I was looking at a few posts on here and would using side reins and a tail babdage tied around his hindquarters be of any use?

 

[Wheels]

I would agree in some respects with your saddler and that is that if the hollows are as bad as you alluded to in a previous thread then you shouldn't be riding for a while and I think a few of us said that at the time. I am pleased they said this to you rather than just selling you another unsuitable saddle which isn't unheard of!!

It would be a good idea to get a good and qualified physiotherapist to do some muscle release work, I know there are not many qualified physios in Ireland but there are some and they really do help these situations. They will also be able to give you advice and guidance on exercises to work on from the ground and whether it is a good idea to use a pessoa type contraption on this horse or not.

What you really need to aim for is a lifting of the tummy which in turn means the back muscles are stretched, at a standstill this can be achieved by doing belly lifts, in movement it is achieved by ensuring the inside hind foot lands at the midpoint of the tummy sort of halfway in between the front two feet. I am not sure a pessoa will produce that result for you but it can be done in hand and on the lunge but you may need someone to show you how. Once the belly is lifted correctly and the horse is stepping under the point of mass then they start to lower the head and come round without the need for gadgets. This method is a way to help them learn self carriage but it takes time!!

 

[Aoibhinn]

I would agree in some respects with your saddler and that is that if the hollows are as bad as you alluded to in a previous thread then you shouldn't be riding for a while and I think a few of us said that at the time. I am pleased they said this to you rather than just selling you another unsuitable saddle which isn't unheard of!!

It would be a good idea to get a good and qualified physiotherapist to do some muscle release work, I know there are not many qualified physios in Ireland but there are some and they really do help these situations. They will also be able to give you advice and guidance on exercises to work on from the ground and whether it is a good idea to use a pessoa type contraption on this horse or not.

What you really need to aim for is a lifting of the tummy which in turn means the back muscles are stretched, at a standstill this can be achieved by doing belly lifts, in movement it is achieved by ensuring the inside hind foot lands at the midpoint of the tummy sort of halfway in between the front two feet. I am not sure a pessoa will produce that result for you but it can be done in hand and on the lunge but you may need someone to show you how. Once the belly is lifted correctly and the horse is stepping under the point of mass then they start to lower the head and come round without the need for gadgets. This method is a way to help them learn self carriage but it takes time!!

He showed me how to do the belly lifts in hand which I am doing with him for 5-10 minutes a day also

 

[Cortez]

Rather than paying out a lot of money for a pessoa (I am not a fan of them), you could get a much simpler and cheaper contraption such as a lungie bungie. There are several ways to attach the straps, the one I use most to help horses use their backs correctly is in the form of Vienna reins (from girth through bit rings attaching back to a roller or saddle at the level of the girth straps or higher - up to the front D's). Vienna reins are very forgiving as they offer the horse his own release when he puts his head forward and down.

 

[NativePonyLover]

If you already have side reins, why not just use elasticated bandages around the bum & attached to the roller?

 

[Aoibhinn]

If you already have side reins, why not just use elasticated bandages around the bum & attached to the roller?

I was thinking about doing that, is it a good idea?

 

[exmoorponyprincess1]

I have the Kincade version of the Pessoa (much cheaper!) and it has worked wonders for my mares topline over the last 6-8 weeks using it once or twice a week in addition to regular lessons and working whilst out hacking too. I prefer it to the lungee bungee (have one of those too!) as it encourages her to use her hind end - I find the lungee bungee, whilst it encourages her to hold her head in the correct place, it doesn't help with encouraging her to engage from behind as well as the Pessoa type aid does.

 

[laura_nash]

I've seen the Pessoa work really well on some horses that tend to be strung out and gangly or stick their head in the air. I tried it on mine once and it was a disaster, he went overbent and on his forehand immediately and couldn't balance in the canter - kept losing balance, kicking out and socking himself in the mouth. I would try and borrow one if you can before buying as they seem to suit some horses and not others.

 

[Aoibhinn]

I've seen the Pessoa work really well on some horses that tend to be strung out and gangly or stick their head in the air. I tried it on mine once and it was a disaster, he went overbent and on his forehand immediately and couldn't balance in the canter - kept losing balance, kicking out and socking himself in the mouth. I would try and borrow one if you can before buying as they seem to suit some horses and not others.

My fella rarely throws his head around in the air, just need something to encourage him to work longer and lower and try and engage the hindquarters!