Pessoas - a quick fix?

[Maia]

Another post got me thinking. I've noticed a lot of people on here rave about pessoas but wondered if anyone shared my opinion that actually they provide a quick fix and often better results can be achieved through correct work and a little more patience.

In my experience they tend to put horses in a "correct" position and while, yes, they work the back muscles and thus improve topline I also find that they put the horse on the forehand and I have also worked a number of horses in them that have developed a nasty habit of bucking and have become very tight and stuffy as a result of being worked in a pessoa.

I have never used a pessoa on my own horses and stick to a simple elastic german bungie or elastic side reins (loose!) where I want to provide a contact for my horse to work into. My horses are all taught voice aids on the lunge including slowing/changing the rhythm and I find I can use my body and a whip to engage the back end where needed up into the contact without altering the rhythm so I have never needed a "quick fix".

So what are your views?

 

[Damnation]

I just don't like the look od pessoa's, I prefer to use 2 lunges instead because Its like sidereins but I can actually feel whats going on, I am more a believer in long and low on the lunge to work the back muscles and achieve a better topline but that is just me.

 

[Maia]

I agree about lunging with two reins however one of mine will lean and cock her head to the side unless I am directly behind her (no idea why but she is an odd, sensitive soul) whereas an elastic contact seems to keep her straight and soft, hence the bungie. I'm not sure I believe in what most people percieve as long and low but I do like a horse to engage its back end, swing through its back, and take the contact forward - I like the poll to be the highest point on the neck but also like the horse to stretch forwards if that makes sense?

 

[kerilli]

my dressage trainer hates the pessoa, says that because it goes around the haunches to the bit, it socks the horse in the mouth with every stride on alternate sides.
i do minimal lungeing anyway, i prefer to be on top monitoring balance, teaching contact, acceptance of aids, etc etc. if i do lunge, i use a chambon, which i think has a far more honest and soft influence on the horse.

 

[hannahealasaid]

Great if you cant do ridden work. My horse had a lot of muscle wastage and we couldn't fit a saddle so the physio told me to use one to build it back. I do think its better if you're able to ride your horse correctly but sometimes they can help.

 

[Maia]

Kerilli I agree - I wonder if that is the reason some horses take shorter, stuffier strides and start bucking?

 

[BethH]

Have a massive dislike of gadgets, think they do more harm than good. My horse had to have back op and had to work long and low after and surgeon recommended pessoa work, so tried it as thought would get him used to it pre-op, he turned himself inside out and would have done himself more harm than good post op had I carried on, the broncing and bucking was unbelievable, I think he felt really trapped and claustrphobic, and that was with it on loose!!!!! Funnily enough he took to proper long reining (not lunging with 2 lines) without any fuss and worked beautifully and very politely.

He has come back into work brilliantly and I swear it is the bond I built up with him by working him slowly initially with long reins and then riding on a long rein but encouraging back end to work. My physio says his back is better than most horses she sees without any problems so for me that confirms my belief that they are not necessarily long term solutions, although if you have a calm horse, it can help them to find their way through the path to working correctly but it isn't for me or any horse that I will ever own!

 

[malibu211211]

Don't like gadgets either

Prefer to use two lunge lines on my boy

 

[em1]

Well I'm going to vote for the pessoa. It really helped my horse with his outline & also with his concentration on the lunge. I'm sure that if I were a better rider/lunger/long reiner then I could have got the same end result without the pessoa - but I'm not, so I'm quite happy to use a gadget to help me get there!!

 

[henryhorn]

We find them useful for young horses once they actually lunge, but anything that goes on it's forehand will go worse in a pessoa. I agree they can produce horses in a false outline behind the bit.
The continental method of lunging through terrets on a roller achives far better results but you do have to be very skilled to use it, which is why pessoas are so poular.
If you are a skilled rider you don't need any gadgets, but be honest, there are an awful lot of people out there who haven't the talents to school properly, so they do have a place.
Not everyone has the desire to achieve results the proper way, and as a gadget provided you acknowledge their failure they are not as bad as some things I've seen used.

 

[the watcher]

Are they a quick fix? Well yes, in that they are effective in a short space of time
Does that make them a bad thing? Not in my view.

While it might be virtuous to make yourself a martyr to the regime of never achieving anything unless you have spent weeks at it - if there is an effective alternative I for one am not going to feel guilty about using it.

It is not my experience that the pessoa (or copy) puts the horse on to the forehand, quite the contrary. However I should make it clear that I only ever use it on the lower settings, and not tightly. There is really no prospect of the horse injuring itself through the mouth on this setting either.

Of course every device can be liable to misuse and abuse.

 

[CBAnglo]

I dont like pessoas at all - most people dont know how to fit it correctly and it is either too harsh or ineffectual. Also, it puts the horse in a false outline and when it starts to work well, it gets sicked in the mouth. I have seen them used on 2 heavy cobs and both are terribly on the forehand.

When I was bringing my boy back into work after 6 months due to injury I did it with the use of an elastic bungie rein (on loose but gradually tighter when he had built up some muscle but still loose) and a lot of hard work. We had a lot of hysterics on the lunge to begin with (broke two fingers - 1 mine and 1 my sister's) but then when he had settled down about coming into work he really worked well. I alternated with long reining. We dont have an enclosed school (teaches them not to lean on the fence) so he could drag me around the yard and up to the fields and back. But what he learnt was that when he is on the lunge, what I say goes. He is now completely voice commanded, knows when to collect and extend and I can "longrein" in the school with only 1 rein.

I think the problem with most people is that they do not know how to lunge properly, and then they stick the pessoa on to get an outline and think they are doing a good job. A lot of people just use lunging as a way of getting the excess energy out of their horse. I think that lunge and in hand work should be used before ridden work, to get the horse supple and to teach it the aids. Then when you get on, you do less lunging but you dont ever give up on the in hand schooling. I usually do 10 minutes of in hand work before I ride, to get my horses to accept the bit, to bend and flex, do turns on the forehand and move through the back. Then when I get on, it only takes about 10 minutes to get them soft in the mouth and to get them to lift their backs and start to swing.

If you are looking for another aid, I would much rather use a chambon.

 

[Hullabaloo]

[ QUOTE ]
Are they a quick fix? Well yes, in that they are effective in a short space of time
Does that make them a bad thing? Not in my view.

While it might be virtuous to make yourself a martyr to the regime of never achieving anything unless you have spent weeks at it - if there is an effective alternative I for one am not going to feel guilty about using it.

It is not my experience that the pessoa (or copy) puts the horse on to the forehand, quite the contrary. However I should make it clear that I only ever use it on the lower settings, and not tightly. There is really no prospect of the horse injuring itself through the mouth on this setting either.

Of course every device can be liable to misuse and abuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. My horse has not taken up bucking or become stuffy since using a pessoa and he is less on his forehand than he was before.
I wasn't looking for a quick fix out of lazyness but needed something that would build my horse's muscle to a stage where he could support a rider. I have found it a very effective tool for what I was trying to do and still use it regularly. My horse has worked very happily in it from day 1 so I'm a big fan.

 

[pinktiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are they a quick fix? Well yes, in that they are effective in a short space of time
Does that make them a bad thing? Not in my view.

While it might be virtuous to make yourself a martyr to the regime of never achieving anything unless you have spent weeks at it - if there is an effective alternative I for one am not going to feel guilty about using it.

It is not my experience that the pessoa (or copy) puts the horse on to the forehand, quite the contrary. However I should make it clear that I only ever use it on the lower settings, and not tightly. There is really no prospect of the horse injuring itself through the mouth on this setting either.

Of course every device can be liable to misuse and abuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. My horse has not taken up bucking or become stuffy since using a pessoa and he is less on his forehand than he was before.
I wasn't looking for a quick fix out of lazyness but needed something that would build my horse's muscle to a stage where he could support a rider. I have found it a very effective tool for what I was trying to do and still use it regularly. My horse has worked very happily in it from day 1 so I'm a big fan.

[/ QUOTE ]


ditto this, anybody using a pessoa knows they are not a quick fix they take expert handling and can have great results producing more of an uphill horse, in my experience! but as with anyting it does take time and patients, in the wrong hands could be abused but then so could a snaffle!!!!!!!!!!