Pet flea treatments poisoning rivers across England, scientists find

My mum constantly nags at me to keep up to date with the dog and cats wormer and flea (she’s a vet receptionist) but I am firmly in the “they’ll get it when they need it” camp.

When I did give the cat his flea/tick treatment because he was coming in covered with ticks, he still came in with multiple ticks a day (our garden backs on to woodlands with deer so is a hotspot!). I check him every day for ticks and remove as and when I see them with one of the remover tool things.

I don’t like the idea of pumping them with chemicals unnecessarily, must admit I hadn’t even considered the impact on the environment
 
I was addressings mule’s question how the water ways are becoming contaminated from just pet flea products, as the study oddly focuses on pet flea treatments as the being the main contamination sources.

When both chemicals have been used agriculturally, thousands of gallons sprayed over thousands of acres, in comparison to 5ml drops administered to domestic dog/cat population who arent ALL swimming, peeing and pooping directly in waterways. So the likely contamination comes from the agri sector using the chemicals, than the domestic pet industry.

Despite the ban of imidacloprid, the residue used on soils and leaching into waterways, will take years to clean up. The half-life’s youve given are under ideal aerobic situations with soil/water organisms present in healthy populations to degrade the chemicals down. As Dow’s own study ‘in the field’ of their chemicals showed, the active state remained for over many years in anaerobic conditions (my contaminated manure pile was 8 yrs old- still killed plants) and under aerobic condition with healthy soil bacteria aerobic conditions took less that 5 to be completely eradicated. Yet in lab conditions they thought it not to have the capacity to not degrade quickly. Hence why changes are made once these chemicals are rolled out to market and have already caused environmental toxicity.

BTW was the ban in 2013 complete or just restricted use? i’m confused how it could be banned in 2018 if it was already banned in 2013?

fiprinol is still used agriculturally. It is restricted so can no longer be used on grasslands, paths, etc...but crops can, seed coatings. Providing the crops are harvested before flowering....so bees dont pollinate them and die from fiprinol toxicity.

https://www.nfuonline.com/cross-sec...news/restriction-of-the-insecticide-fipronil/

“In the UK there are currently no approvals for fipronil, however fipronil treated seed is imported into the UK. Most of this imported seed is treated with the product Mundial, which is approved in other EU member states for use on leeks, shallots, onions and a range of brassicas. There will be no restrictions on use of fipronil on glasshouse crops or on field vegetables that are harvested before flowering, which the NFU understands will mean the main uses of fipronil (as the product Mundial) in the UK will be exempt from restriction.”

Here’s a link on the HSE’s site detailing their restricted use of many pesticides - youll need to scroll down to “F” to find date of fipronil open use restriction on 1 september 2012.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pesticides/resources/L/LTAEU-excluded-active-list-2014.pdf

QUOTE;

The following uses are not permitted under the Long Term Arrangements for Extension of Use.
• Aerial applications
• Use in or near water (in or near water includes drainage channels, streams, rivers, ponds, lakes, reservoirs, canals, dry
ditches, areas designated for water storage).
• Use in or near coastal waters.
• Use of rodenticides and other vertebrate control agents.
• Use on land not intended for cropping, land not intended to bear vegetation, amenity grassland, managed amenity turf and
amenity vegetation (this includes areas such as paths, pavements, roads, ground around buildings, motorway verges, railway embankments, public parks, turf, sports fields, upland areas, moorland areas, nature reserves, etc.).

So this is why i fail to see how the researchers of the study linked the domestic pet industry as the primary culprit of contaminating uk waterways, when the agri industry has been applying thousands of gallons of both chemicals on its cropping fields and seeds annually, bar 1 due to a recent ban.

I notice the UK media picks up this study to write about and other toxicity from OTHER countries contaminating eggs, yet don’t publish the studies showing they’re just as guilty in this ‘chemical age’ we live in?
Why is there the persistent need for the media to turn a blind eye to agricultural-based environmental damage and blame ANYTHING else, than the true culprit? Like they think no-one can see the giant elephant in the room if we point to a flea hopping about in the corner! ?

Thanks for highlighting the issue SD.
 
Worth bearing in mind - when google throws up a result that a chemical is ‘banned’ - it oftentimes means its no longer allowed to be used unrestricted by farmers, gardeners, the public etc and rarely means it’s completely
banned, just the use has been tightly restricted.
 
PurBee said:
I was addressings mule’s question how the water ways are becoming contaminated from just pet flea products, as the study oddly focuses on pet flea treatments as the being the main contamination sources.

When both chemicals have been used agriculturally, thousands of gallons sprayed over thousands of acres, in comparison to 5ml drops administered to domestic dog/cat population who arent ALL swimming, peeing and pooping directly in waterways. So the likely contamination comes from the agri sector using the chemicals, than the domestic pet industry.

Despite the ban of imidacloprid, the residue used on soils and leaching into waterways, will take years to clean up. The half-life’s youve given are under ideal aerobic situations with soil/water organisms present in healthy populations to degrade the chemicals down. As Dow’s own study ‘in the field’ of their chemicals showed, the active state remained for over many years in anaerobic conditions (my contaminated manure pile was 8 yrs old- still killed plants) and under aerobic condition with healthy soil bacteria aerobic conditions took less that 5 to be completely eradicated. Yet in lab conditions they thought it not to have the capacity to not degrade quickly. Hence why changes are made once these chemicals are rolled out to market and have already caused environmental toxicity.

BTW was the ban in 2013 complete or just restricted use? i’m confused how it could be banned in 2018 if it was already banned in 2013?

fiprinol is still used agriculturally. It is restricted so can no longer be used on grasslands, paths, etc...but crops can, seed coatings. Providing the crops are harvested before flowering....so bees dont pollinate them and die from fiprinol toxicity.

https://www.nfuonline.com/cross-sec...news/restriction-of-the-insecticide-fipronil/

“In the UK there are currently no approvals for fipronil, however fipronil treated seed is imported into the UK. Most of this imported seed is treated with the product Mundial, which is approved in other EU member states for use on leeks, shallots, onions and a range of brassicas. There will be no restrictions on use of fipronil on glasshouse crops or on field vegetables that are harvested before flowering, which the NFU understands will mean the main uses of fipronil (as the product Mundial) in the UK will be exempt from restriction.”

Here’s a link on the HSE’s site detailing their restricted use of many pesticides - youll need to scroll down to “F” to find date of fipronil open use restriction on 1 september 2012.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pesticides/resources/L/LTAEU-excluded-active-list-2014.pdf

QUOTE;

The following uses are not permitted under the Long Term Arrangements for Extension of Use.
• Aerial applications
• Use in or near water (in or near water includes drainage channels, streams, rivers, ponds, lakes, reservoirs, canals, dry
ditches, areas designated for water storage).
• Use in or near coastal waters.
• Use of rodenticides and other vertebrate control agents.
• Use on land not intended for cropping, land not intended to bear vegetation, amenity grassland, managed amenity turf and
amenity vegetation (this includes areas such as paths, pavements, roads, ground around buildings, motorway verges, railway embankments, public parks, turf, sports fields, upland areas, moorland areas, nature reserves, etc.).

So this is why i fail to see how the researchers of the study linked the domestic pet industry as the primary culprit of contaminating uk waterways, when the agri industry has been applying thousands of gallons of both chemicals on its cropping fields and seeds annually, bar 1 due to a recent ban.

I notice the UK media picks up this study to write about and other toxicity from OTHER countries contaminating eggs, yet don’t publish the studies showing they’re just as guilty in this ‘chemical age’ we live in?
Why is there the persistent need for the media to turn a blind eye to agricultural-based environmental damage and blame ANYTHING else, than the true culprit? Like they think no-one can see the giant elephant in the room if we point to a flea hopping about in the corner! ?

Thanks for highlighting the issue SD.
Click to expand...

I am quite happy to accept the opinion of Dave Goulson, Professor Of Biology (Evolution, Behaviour and Environment), University of Sussex, who said “It has to be the flea treatments causing the pollution,” Goulson said. “Really, there’s no other conceivable source.”
 
Well there’s many more professors who would disagree with prof. Dave ...they’ve been submitting their own studies too, just like Dave.
 
PurBee said:
Just this year i discovered the herbicide treating weeds commonly used on hay fields, remains on the grass, travels through the horses system, still active, makes it in a dung pile, still active, and even after years sitting in a dung pile, that still active herbicide laced manure applied to food crops, will kill the plants at a strength of just 1 part per billion.
Click to expand...
Just like moxidectin used to worm horses.
 
rabatsa said:
Just like moxidectin used to worm horses.
Click to expand...

That comment made me curious to know more.

I read that it negatively affects seed germination of temperate grassland. (I only read one article on the affect on seed germination)

"Moxidectin is also toxic to aquatic organisms including fish. Only use the product according to the label instructions, and do not allow treated animals to have access to watercourses during the first 10-11 days after treatment."
https://www.scarsdalevets.com/environmental-impact-of-moxidectin

It is also used as a topical and injectable antiparasitic for dogs and cats. (Advocate, for example, contains imidacloprid and moxidectin). Double whammy.
 
I havent looked into the longterm effects of wormers, how long they take to break down, if its in horse manure/pee etc...

As this is a thread about pesticide contamination, i thought i’d share a couple of pics of potato trials i was doing. Unbeknownst to me at the time i was also doing a manure/hay herbicide contamination trial!

AC966023-30A3-4BEA-9D19-C09AF86A2E96.jpeg

In this first pic you can see in the foreground rows of potatoes where i’ve mulched some plants with old hay - the leaves within the week started to curl up, go yellow and before long went completely yellow and died.
The rows of potatoes in the background are very large plants, very green, growing well - nothing applied, just planted into soil.
The middle rows, where the garden fork is - were fertilised with 8yr old horse manure, that has been sitting in a place for 8 years unturned -anaerobic composting. Those plants are smaller, turning yellow and eventually died.

7C4C1543-7423-42EC-B30C-548A7B9B5F5A.jpeg


Here’s another angle of the same plot, you get to see a real difference in the size of plants. These are all main crop potatoes, except for far right 2 rows, are earlies and grow smaller, not fertilised with anything. They were all planted at the same time. The 2 left rows i had started mulching with old hay - you can see them half the size than the plants in the same row further back. These eventually remained small, went yellow and yielded no potatoes.
The middle rows to the left of the garden fork were the rows fertilised with 8yr old manure contaminated with herbicide.

At the end of that season, after having fertilised some more, thinking the leaves showing yellow and curling was nitrogen deficiency, i ended up with just 2 buckets of potatoes! I should have had 150kg+ at least.
Also, due to the plants being weakened by the herbicide contaminated hay and manure, attracted garden pests to really move in and attack the plants like nothing i’ve seen before. Huge amounts of slugs and wasps - wasps suckings at the stems, 5 on each stem base....really weird to see that!

I went through 8 years of crop failures due to this. Took 8 years to figure out because the info out there regarding agri - chemicals is inaccurate. Having considered this issue before, the literature assured me these chemicals are broken down and don’t linger to cause crop failures. Now the industry is seeing the reality, doing widespread testing, and revealing the true longterm contamination effects.

None of the literature lists the decomposition rate of most herbicides in the ‘years’ category - yet myself and other farmers globally have found, in reality, in the field, it is astounding how they can remain in an active state after many years in manure. Dow is the only company who now admits that.
The only thing to break it down are soil microbes. I dont know which ones specifically. Sunlight, rain, UV, frost, doesnt break it down. The manure has to be dug into the soil so as many microbes can break down the herbicide as quickly as possible...1-2yrs. If its just sitting on top of soil as a mulch it’ll take much longer.

If these type of chemicals are banned its a step in the right direction. It’ll still take years for natural microbes to clean up the soil and water courses, but it will be clean at some point, if we stop re-infecting the earth and water....causing all sorts of horrendous consequences for nature and man.
If chemicals were developed that would be decomposed by U.V light and cold temps, then we could be sure that they would be broken down that year before they got the chance to contaminate other sources of life.
 
"Vet associations call for risk-based approach to parasiticide use for cats and dogs

Leading veterinary associations have set out recommendations on the use of small animal parasiticides, as new research shows almost all (98%) companion animal vets are concerned about the impact of some treatments on the environment, with more than two in five (42%) feeling very concerned.

There is increasing concern that some small animal parasiticides, which are commonly used to treat and prevent against parasites on millions of dogs and cats across the UK, could contaminate the environment and cause harm to wildlife, ecosystems, and in turn to public health. This could occur in many ways, from being excreted in animal waste to the product being washed into rivers from wastewater in homes after being applied to an animal’s skin. There are also worries about the risk of product resistance building up."

Read in full here:

https://www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog...proach-to-parasiticide-use-for-cats-and-dogs/
 
skinnydipper said:
"Vet associations call for risk-based approach to parasiticide use for cats and dogs

Leading veterinary associations have set out recommendations on the use of small animal parasiticides, as new research shows almost all (98%) companion animal vets are concerned about the impact of some treatments on the environment, with more than two in five (42%) feeling very concerned.

There is increasing concern that some small animal parasiticides, which are commonly used to treat and prevent against parasites on millions of dogs and cats across the UK, could contaminate the environment and cause harm to wildlife, ecosystems, and in turn to public health. This could occur in many ways, from being excreted in animal waste to the product being washed into rivers from wastewater in homes after being applied to an animal’s skin. There are also worries about the risk of product resistance building up."

Read in full here:

https://www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog...proach-to-parasiticide-use-for-cats-and-dogs/
Click to expand...

That came out last October and yet the three small animal vet practices close to me all still push their regular flea treatment programmes, and routine worming, with no information about only treating when needed/those at high risk.
 
Do the dogs in England not get many fleas? I'm wondering because in my part of the world, mid-Atlantic, USA, we have horrible flea problems unless the animals are on flea control. Ticks are bad too. I keep mine on flea/tick control year round now that we don't always get hard enough frosts to kill the little so and sos. Thank you climate change.

I've seen fleas running up and down on dogs bodies when the owner either refuses that there is a problem or can't afford good control products. I've also seen enough animals with some nasty tick borne diseases that I don't want to risk it. I also have friends who have been sick with Lyme Disease and some never seem to really clear it. i do believe there is something to the idea of long Lyme. I would love to live somewhere where I didn't have to worry about those little b@#$tards.
 
So can someone advise ignoramous here please. I use nexguard as it protects from lung worm and that is a real problem where I live. I give it every 8 weeks not monthly as I dislike using chemical but worry about lung worm since my friend lost a spaniel to it 3 years ago. I don't use anything applied to the skin or tick collars etc. I'm just concerned now. My vet who I trust and have been with for years recommends nexguard and using it monthly.
 
The problem is enormous in our waterways, not just pet parasites killers but human ones too. Also all our medicines, enzymes and hormones and everything else you can imagine that is flushed down the loo from our waste and whatever else we apply e.g. sunscreen, moisturisers, acids, alcohols.... We are disgusting creatures really.
 
I hate using pesticides on my dog, but I also hate finding fully gorged ticks crawling across my bed :eek:. My dog has a dense curly coat, so it’s really hard to see ticks. I only treated her once (back of the neck fipronil) last year and then did her a couple of weeks ago, after the bed tick issue, but I wish there was an effective product that didn‘t come with so many environmental issues.
 
I've got four cats that all go outside, they get fleas in the summer if I don't treat them. I don't do a blanket treatment all year round but they have to be treated at least every couple of months in the summer. Do the less environmentally damaging products work?
 
GSD Woman said:
Do the dogs in England not get many fleas? I'm wondering because in my part of the world, mid-Atlantic, USA, we have horrible flea problems unless the animals are on flea control. Ticks are bad too. I keep mine on flea/tick control year round now that we don't always get hard enough frosts to kill the little so and sos. Thank you climate change.

I've seen fleas running up and down on dogs bodies when the owner either refuses that there is a problem or can't afford good control products. I've also seen enough animals with some nasty tick borne diseases that I don't want to risk it. I also have friends who have been sick with Lyme Disease and some never seem to really clear it. i do believe there is something to the idea of long Lyme. I would love to live somewhere where I didn't have to worry about those little b@#$tards.
Click to expand...
I have only ever once had a bad flea infestation, I rehomed some very young feral kittens and at that time there were no treatments for kittens that young, and I can say from experience fleas can jump several feet.
I have two cats and two dogs, and they get treated usually mid summer for fleas, and the rest of the time unless I see a problem not regularly. They sleep in my bedroom so if they have them I am dinner.
I worm more often because the cats like live food, and eat what they catch.
 
misst said:
So can someone advise ignoramous here please. I use nexguard as it protects from lung worm and that is a real problem where I live. I give it every 8 weeks not monthly as I dislike using chemical but worry about lung worm since my friend lost a spaniel to it 3 years ago. I don't use anything applied to the skin or tick collars etc. I'm just concerned now. My vet who I trust and have been with for years recommends nexguard and using it monthly.
Click to expand...

It sounds like your dog doesn't have neurologic problems/seizures so Nexguard should be safe. Does your vet recommend it every 4 weeks for lung worms to?
 
maisie06 said:
And that makes me wonder how much kid's headlouse treatment is washed into the waterways....
Click to expand...
Pony Club was the worst for head lice, every year they would get the blighters again. Two girls with long blond hair, a nit comb through with hair conditioner every time they had their hair washed sorted it for the rest of the year. Why would anyone want to put insecticide on their child's head on a regular basis.
 
My youngest niece had lice a couple of years ago. My sister washed everything in hot water, threw out a bunch of things and the two of them had some treatment that consisted of fine combing, wearing something like an old fashioned hair dryer head piece, having their hair treated with very high heat, and then having it fine combed again.
I'm just glad my sister could afford the treatment. She said it was not cheap.
 
GSD Woman said:
It sounds like your dog doesn't have neurologic problems/seizures so Nexguard should be safe. Does your vet recommend it every 4 weeks for lung worms to?
Click to expand...
Thank you :-) . Both of mine have no neuro problems (fingers crossed). Vet does recommend it 4 weekly but I use it about 6 to 8 weekly in summer and less in winter.
 
honetpot said:
Pony Club was the worst for head lice, every year they would get the blighters again. Two girls with long blond hair, a nit comb through with hair conditioner every time they had their hair washed sorted it for the rest of the year. Why would anyone want to put insecticide on their child's head on a regular basis.
Click to expand...
Many years ago I worked at a very very exclusive boarding school for a while. Some of the parents were bonkers (think J R-M types though not his family just his type).
One family had 4 girls at the school and they were lined up in the garden on return home and hair sprayed with Rose Clear!! Apparently "it's wonderful dear. Does a really good job!". Who knew....
 
Mines not had a treatment or a flea at any point in his life and he's nearly 6 now. He is a whippet with pink skin so any would be easy to see. i have no doubt now I have said that he will be crawling in fleas tomorrow!

As someone who lives on a boat on the canal system we are all very wary of the water! If I touch it or it gets on me then I will immediately wash it off, and I am the sort of scruffy blighter who happily mucks out then eats a bag of crisps without washing my hands, so far from a clean freak. I just have a healthy respect for just how filthy and potentially dangerous the canal water is
 
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