Pet Plan exclude entire gastro-intestinal system after gastric ulcer claim - fuming
- Thread starter Horsewitterer
- Start date
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Super normal. I have just had a claim for lymphangitis in his near hind, and I was seriously surprised that they didn't exclude the whole leg following that, they did only exclude lyphangitis. (ETA: when I say 'they' I mean m insurers, not Petplan. I'm with Insurance Emporium).
He also has all growths/tumors excluded because he has some old sarcoids, and all skin conditions due to a mud fever claim beforw I owned him.
He also has all growths/tumors excluded because he has some old sarcoids, and all skin conditions due to a mud fever claim beforw I owned him.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You don't have any choice but to accept it.
That's why many of us no longer insure.
TheMule
Well-Known Member
You said they paid out with no problems? So it's entirely fair, they then minimize their future risk by not insuring potentially related conditions. They are a business, not a charity. They need to earn money from you.
If you don't like it, self-insure
MyBoyChe
Well-Known Member
Fair...no
Usual...yes
Its one of the reasons I dont bother with horse insurance any more, it seems to me you are paying a load of money per month to claim for 1 injury per area of horse, so 1 strike and youre out!! I prefer to keep a spare credit card for emergencies. I will say that PP have always paid out for my dogs without a quibble, except for the last time!! We had several lumps removed from our spangle, vet sent them off for biopsies and we got charged 2 excesses because they came back with different results. I did feel a bit agrieved about that
Usual...yes
Its one of the reasons I dont bother with horse insurance any more, it seems to me you are paying a load of money per month to claim for 1 injury per area of horse, so 1 strike and youre out!! I prefer to keep a spare credit card for emergencies. I will say that PP have always paid out for my dogs without a quibble, except for the last time!! We had several lumps removed from our spangle, vet sent them off for biopsies and we got charged 2 excesses because they came back with different results. I did feel a bit agrieved about that
scats
Well-Known Member
I’d say that’s completely normal for an insurance company. They base everything upon risk. Your horse is now classed as higher risk of having further issues in that area.
That’s how they work.
That’s how they work.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
This is one of the major reasons I don’t insure
Jsye
Well-Known Member
My horse got a scrape just above his eye (off a fence rub i assume) a few years back which swelled up really big. Vet came out, sedated and fully checked his actual eye with dye etc. All fine just a superficial scrape - insurance renewal excluded his eyes totally in any respect.
Also excluded for abcesses after a call out for lameness which turned out to be an abscess. He's also got cushings which is now excluded including EMS which he tested negative for but I guess they're all linked.
Mine has got so many exclusions I'm almost ready to call it a day with insurance, I only really have it for colic as most of the rest of him is excluded! (all forms of arthritis due to bone spavin in his hocks, his whole back due to back pain from said spavin)
Self insuring - is this literally just saving up a pot of money instead of spending on insurance premiums each month? And an emergency CC im guessing if the pot isn't big enough!
Also excluded for abcesses after a call out for lameness which turned out to be an abscess. He's also got cushings which is now excluded including EMS which he tested negative for but I guess they're all linked.
Mine has got so many exclusions I'm almost ready to call it a day with insurance, I only really have it for colic as most of the rest of him is excluded! (all forms of arthritis due to bone spavin in his hocks, his whole back due to back pain from said spavin)
Self insuring - is this literally just saving up a pot of money instead of spending on insurance premiums each month? And an emergency CC im guessing if the pot isn't big enough!
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I self insure. The big question with colic and insurance is whether you would want to put a horse through colic surgery. Much of that will depend on the horse, age, health etc. If at the end of the day you would hesitate on colic surgery or rule it out then self insuring may be better. I have 9 and there is only one horse I would consider for colic surgery and even then it would be a hard decision. Many people would rule it out. It may also depend on how close you are to a horse hospital and if transporting a colicing horse is even a possibility because of the distance.
Self insuring is just saving the premiums. I also have a credit card with a large balance on it just in case I had a rush to horse hospital. I would think many would use a credit card with 0% balance transfer in an emergency or if there was not enough money in the pot.
Best thing about self insuring is that you are in charge. You can listen to the vet and make up your mind as to what you want. If you want to call it a day on welfare grounds you don't have to worry about what the insurance company thinks.
holeymoley
Well-Known Member
No I have public liability, personal injury and accidental injury, if he requires any vet treatment it will have to go on a credit card. I have a little bit of savings too.
I’ve paid insurance for 16years without a claim. By the time I paid the excess and a few others things that amazingly turned out not to be covered during the laminitis claim, I’m not sure it was really worth while.
Horsewitterer
Member
Totally agree with your point of view!
Horsewitterer
Member
Yes colic is the main reason I insure as the bill could be big, which is why I’m so cross.
Horsewitterer
Member
Thanks all for taking the time to reply to me, I appreciate it. I’ve been fortunate in not needing to make many claims over the years - this is the first claim for my mare in 12 years. I’ve made one claim for my Welsh Mountain for laminitis and that’s it. I’ve been in touch with SEIB and they say they wouldn’t necessarily exclude for colic following ulcers - so long as she has no history with colic.
My vet also disagrees with the exclusion and so he is the one who spurred me on to complain to Pet Plan.
Over the years I’ve spent far more on insurance than I’ve ever claimed, which is true of most people I imagine - annoying! My view is we should all argue the toss with insurance companies more often - nothing changes without challenge. There’s no harm in trying any way!
My vet also disagrees with the exclusion and so he is the one who spurred me on to complain to Pet Plan.
Over the years I’ve spent far more on insurance than I’ve ever claimed, which is true of most people I imagine - annoying! My view is we should all argue the toss with insurance companies more often - nothing changes without challenge. There’s no harm in trying any way!
KEK
Well-Known Member
Interesting horse insurance is so different from dog/cat. I’m with Petplan and they do not exclude for entire body systems, or even the same conditions as long as you have the insurance at least 4w before the animal presents (longer for some conditions like cruciates).
dogatemysalad
Well-Known Member
Normal but not fair. I haven't insured any of my animals for years. It means that I can call a vet without worrying that it will result in exclusions or that the animal is forced to go through unnecessary investigations to satisfy the insurers check list. It also means that in the event of an emergency, I can make a decision immediately without spending hours trying to contact the insurer out of hours to get permission.
OrangeAndLemon
Afraid of exorcism
Mine had both front legs excluded after kicking his door and getting concussion in one hoof (we didn't know that at the time, vet suspected abscess). He had a back leg excluded because there has a crack in the hoof on his pre purchase vetting.
KBIS have removed these exclusions when I asked, after I provided vet reports showing that he hadn't received any treatment for it in the 24months since, and a statement from me confirming he is happy, healthy and in normal work.
KBIS have removed these exclusions when I asked, after I provided vet reports showing that he hadn't received any treatment for it in the 24months since, and a statement from me confirming he is happy, healthy and in normal work.
SOS
Well-Known Member
My personal opinion is horse insurance is a dying trade. Unlike car insurance where you may go all of your life without a bump or scrape, horses have 24 hours a day to break themselves and very very often do. Hence why the exclusions are so heavy, as if not they’d never make any money.
If you self insure make sure you start with a few thousand in the savings and/or a credit card. I used £4500 of one horses insurance within 12 months of owning, on investigations alone, having paid just £600 to insurance. So it definitely paid off.
I have always been with petplan as get substantial discount that makes it worth while. They have paid out for claims fine but have had to argue a few things. First when my premium went up 10% for each horse on renewal and when asked why I was told ‘advances in veterinary research’, I then asked what specific advances will benefit my horses as I work within the industry to which they didn’t know... and found my a better price.
Second was a recent one where I had a horse vetted, for insurance purposes, and a small, presumably benign lump was noted on its canon (think skin tag size). I’ve known the horse 7 years, as had our mutual, trusted vet and it’s never had a problem with it. Petplan then tried to exclude ALL warts, tumours, growths, sarcoids, melanomas, abscesses and hoof abscess. Bar the hoof abscesses I would of happily accepted that as we haven’t tested the lump and don’t know if it could be anything more serious. However I had a horse insured two years previously with them, after a vetting, that had several warts noted and the vet had stated they may be sarcoids but could not comment for definite. They only excluded sarcoids... so I did get my vet to write a letter in regarding this new horse and we sent his full history over and they changed the exclusion to that lump alone. It took some careful wording and strong persuasion though.
If you self insure make sure you start with a few thousand in the savings and/or a credit card. I used £4500 of one horses insurance within 12 months of owning, on investigations alone, having paid just £600 to insurance. So it definitely paid off.
I have always been with petplan as get substantial discount that makes it worth while. They have paid out for claims fine but have had to argue a few things. First when my premium went up 10% for each horse on renewal and when asked why I was told ‘advances in veterinary research’, I then asked what specific advances will benefit my horses as I work within the industry to which they didn’t know... and found my a better price.
Second was a recent one where I had a horse vetted, for insurance purposes, and a small, presumably benign lump was noted on its canon (think skin tag size). I’ve known the horse 7 years, as had our mutual, trusted vet and it’s never had a problem with it. Petplan then tried to exclude ALL warts, tumours, growths, sarcoids, melanomas, abscesses and hoof abscess. Bar the hoof abscesses I would of happily accepted that as we haven’t tested the lump and don’t know if it could be anything more serious. However I had a horse insured two years previously with them, after a vetting, that had several warts noted and the vet had stated they may be sarcoids but could not comment for definite. They only excluded sarcoids... so I did get my vet to write a letter in regarding this new horse and we sent his full history over and they changed the exclusion to that lump alone. It took some careful wording and strong persuasion though.
MrsMozart
Just passing through...
I self-insure now.
Had a couple of disagreements with insurance companies where the horse was end of life. I went ahead with what I and my vets knew was the right thing for the horse, I then had the discussion with the insurance company. They've only not paid out once.
I no longer want that sick feeling of wondering if they'll pay, what do I have to do to deal with them at a time when I'm emotionally drained, etc., I and my vets make the call now without that added stress.
A cc is kept in a drawer, with light use and payment to keep it ticking over (and so I know where it is and I don't forget the PIN!), and as I won't have colic surgery for any of them it's enough to cover the treatment.
Had a couple of disagreements with insurance companies where the horse was end of life. I went ahead with what I and my vets knew was the right thing for the horse, I then had the discussion with the insurance company. They've only not paid out once.
I no longer want that sick feeling of wondering if they'll pay, what do I have to do to deal with them at a time when I'm emotionally drained, etc., I and my vets make the call now without that added stress.
A cc is kept in a drawer, with light use and payment to keep it ticking over (and so I know where it is and I don't forget the PIN!), and as I won't have colic surgery for any of them it's enough to cover the treatment.
PSD
Well-Known Member
My mare had grade 4 ulcers and animal friends excluded the whole digestive system afterwards. I think it’s fairly normal, I have thought about self insuring but it’s not an option for me as I don’t have a credit card.
Evie91
Well-Known Member
I think it’s completely fair. I’ve also claimed for ulcers in the past and had the same exclusion apply. Pet Plan in my experience have always been brilliant at paying out. Considering I paid a monthly fee of less than £60 and claim totally ££££’s I’d say completely fair. Ulcers can come back, can cause colic therefore too much high risk for insurance company.
I had an older horse who had several exclusions but I chose to continue to insure, for me it seemed worth it.
I had an older horse who had several exclusions but I chose to continue to insure, for me it seemed worth it.
Woody50
Well-Known Member
I had one treated for ulcers and had full lameness workups. My insurance excluded his whole gastrointestinal system and his whole muscularskeletal system!! Basically only his eyes insured. I cancelled it. The next one was insured but when things went wrong he went to Liphook for investigations and he was PTS whilst there. The insurance wouldnt pay for most of it and i was left without a horse and a 4k vet bill top pay.
I now dont insure as think its a waste of money.
I now dont insure as think its a waste of money.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Completely normal for insurance.
I don’t insure any longer (except 3rd party) due to the excessive exclusions.
Well that and the fact that they wanted nearly £1500 a year with a £500 excess to insure my veteran lad because of his showing results in the past. As much as I love him I wouldn’t put him through major surgery so it was pointless.
I’ve had one major vet fee in the 3 years I’ve had him and that has been just shy of £1600 so I’m still £400 better off.
I have a couple of credit cards with enormous limits on them (£15-20k range) in case of emergencies and I put the equivalent of the monthly premium away in a savings account each month
I don’t insure any longer (except 3rd party) due to the excessive exclusions.
Well that and the fact that they wanted nearly £1500 a year with a £500 excess to insure my veteran lad because of his showing results in the past. As much as I love him I wouldn’t put him through major surgery so it was pointless.
I’ve had one major vet fee in the 3 years I’ve had him and that has been just shy of £1600 so I’m still £400 better off.
I have a couple of credit cards with enormous limits on them (£15-20k range) in case of emergencies and I put the equivalent of the monthly premium away in a savings account each month
SOS
Well-Known Member
Out of interest did the insurance actually ask about his past?! That’s bizarre, I’ve never been asked about my horses pasts just their current activity level and market value... If so how on earth would anyone insure ex-four star eventers or ex-racehorses? As they were once worth a fortune.
WelshD
Well-Known Member
Have a word with them and see if they are willing to re-word it to be less of a blanket exclusion
For example I had a pony with sweet itch, the exclusion came through as 'all skin conditions' I successfully got this reworded to exclude sweet itch only
Its worth a phone call
For example I had a pony with sweet itch, the exclusion came through as 'all skin conditions' I successfully got this reworded to exclude sweet itch only
Its worth a phone call
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
I gave them his value and his current activity level, they asked me to justify his value (£1500 is what I paid for him) and why he was still capable of county shows, I told them that he had been to hoys 4 time, won at the RIHS and looked and acted much younger than his age.
They refused to insure him for that little, popped his value up to £3000 and his premium went through the roof
Muddywellies
Well-Known Member
I'm with NFU and had this very conversation with them after they paid out for my ulcer claim.
They advised that all occurrences of ulcers would be excluded in future, and any gastric problems related to it. However they confirmed that anything gastric that is clearly not as a result of the ulcers would still be covered.
That's why I changed from KBIS. NFU are very accommodating and worth the slightly higher premiums.
They advised that all occurrences of ulcers would be excluded in future, and any gastric problems related to it. However they confirmed that anything gastric that is clearly not as a result of the ulcers would still be covered.
That's why I changed from KBIS. NFU are very accommodating and worth the slightly higher premiums.
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
Most insurance companies seem to want hit you with an exclusion, the bigger the better, so they minimise claims in the future.
We had a horse that was having problems with his breathing, he was scoped & needed medication which was best given by way of a nebuliser. The cost of a nebuliser was in excess of £800. We had recently changed out insurance company & are insured now with The Horse Insurance Company. Our vets wrongly wrote to our old Insurance company KBIS. KBIS replied informing the vets that we were not covered by thwem, no problem with that, but they also said that they do not pay for nebulisers. This was quite unexpected really regarding not paying for a nebuliser. We informed our vets that we were covered by The Horse Insurance Company & after contacting them they had no problem paying the claim for the medication & the nebuliser to administer it. The Horse Insurance Company's premiums were much cheaper that KBIS & SEIB etc & we have had no issues at all with them regarding our claim. They covered us for everything unlike KBIS.
We had a horse that was having problems with his breathing, he was scoped & needed medication which was best given by way of a nebuliser. The cost of a nebuliser was in excess of £800. We had recently changed out insurance company & are insured now with The Horse Insurance Company. Our vets wrongly wrote to our old Insurance company KBIS. KBIS replied informing the vets that we were not covered by thwem, no problem with that, but they also said that they do not pay for nebulisers. This was quite unexpected really regarding not paying for a nebuliser. We informed our vets that we were covered by The Horse Insurance Company & after contacting them they had no problem paying the claim for the medication & the nebuliser to administer it. The Horse Insurance Company's premiums were much cheaper that KBIS & SEIB etc & we have had no issues at all with them regarding our claim. They covered us for everything unlike KBIS.
SOS
Well-Known Member
That’s crazy as surely if the valuing you are insuring for is less than his true value then you’re not winning in any way as loss of use and/or death pay outs would be less... this is why I don’t work in insurance! Too confusing.
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
I know, when they questioned his value and activity level i thought that they believed i was over valuing an 18yr old welsh pony, hence i told them his previous results (baring in mind that winning RIHS was 10 years ago!), also not many 18yr olds are capable of holding thier own in the county show ring.
I couldnt believe when they told me they wouldnt insure him for less than £3000 value but consequently his premiums would go up to nearly £1500 a year!
this was Petplan!
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
One of mine had splints in her front legs as a 2 year old, they excluded her whole front legs.
Then she had colic surgery for a blood clot in her small colon - and they excluded everything from nostrils to anus, adding in her respiratory system, and repro tract for good measure.
By the end only her hind legs and her rather generously sized ears were included.
I now self-insure.
Then she had colic surgery for a blood clot in her small colon - and they excluded everything from nostrils to anus, adding in her respiratory system, and repro tract for good measure.
By the end only her hind legs and her rather generously sized ears were included.
I now self-insure.