Petition to license horse traders and dealers

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terigower123

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After finding a foal left to run in distress by a dealer on a main road near Swansea. I met Emma Kurrels who rescued him.

On her website there is an online petition to license traders and dealers of horses,ponies,donkeys and mules.This is to be given to Lord Rooker Minister of State for Animal Welfare. Please spare a minute and go to

www.voicesforhorses.co.uk
Every signature counts.
 
Someone else has posted this link, but thank you anyway.
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I cannot sign I'm afraid, as there are too many unanswered questions and I see it as purely another tax on horse owners. The idea sounds good, but in theory it cannot possibly work.
 
did not see this link posted but will look for it I mistakenly put it on soapbox.. it is meant to stop horses being left to die as in Amersham any unfit trader like him would not be given a license please contact Emma Kurrels for help with any unanswered questions at - www.voicesforhorses.co.uk
she is dedicated to helping horses .and this appeal for signatures will help equines in the future.
 
Hi Tia,

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this. I am interested in everybody’s views, good bad and indifferent regarding the petition and changing the law in respect of equine welfare. It would help to know what questions you want answers to and why you believe ‘changes’ cannot possibly work. We are collecting information and feed back from all perspectives – equine dealers and traders included. I appreciate you do not agree with the course of action we are perusing but your views and beliefs are just as important as we research the different ‘arguments’ - I would be very interested to know for example why you think a change in the law would impose “another tax on horse owners”

I would really like to hear from you.

Kind regards
Emma
Voices for Horses
 
I just don't think this will help at all - sorry
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We have legislation that requires everyone to maintain the essential needs of animals (for food, water, attention to injuries and illness and natural movement), but it isn't being enforced. We also have passport legislation where ordinary decent people have to buy and carry a passport for each horse, but the bad horse traders, the auctions and the abbotiours ignore it and the Authorities do nothing!!! If those pieces of legislation were routinely enforced (even occasionally would be nice!), that would be more than enough to deal with this problem! Therefore, we don't need further legislation related to this issue. If we had it, the evidence suggests that it wouldn't be enforced!! Also if he had need a licence, he may well have got a licence as he was obviously cabable of caring properly for horses - as evidenced by his own TB.

I commend your desire and efforts to protect horses, but I just don't agree that this will do it
frown.gif
 
I would want to know what the definition of 'dealer' and 'trader' are - is it defined by the number of horses the buy at one time, the number they buy in one year? Having worked for a riding school, I have been to sales and bought up to 4 horses at a time, for use in the riding school - yet I would not class that as being a 'dealer'. How would it be regulated if it was an annual figure (given if I bought one horse per sale, the sale room would not know) How would you regulate private sales? Many dealers I have worked with also buy and sell from private homes.

Who would cover the cost of dealer inspections (if that is what you are proposing?) The current riding school inspections are utterly substandard IMO (to the extent that they don't even look at all the horses, and the inspectors have poor knowledge themselves) Would you suggest these same people carry out the inspections? If not, who. How often? Announced or unannounced? What fee would a licence cost? Would a dealer licence be akin to a 'mass passport' or would they have to pay multiple fees? What would be the penalty for not having a licence? How would evidence be gathered (seeing as how there is no limit on the number of horses you may own privately, nor any law about buying or selling a horse in itself)

Some of the questions I would want answering
 
Thank you for you very valid questions, concerns and points of view.

Only due to time restrictions would you be kind enough to post these important issues on the Voices for Horses forum? People on other forums are debating the same subject and I am going to attempt to put us all together in one place so the conversation can be constructive and objective without diluting your views or me failing to get back to every individual on multiple forums.

I have created a thread specifically for your concerns and questions at: http://vfhcommunity.voicesforhorses.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164

You do need to register with the site to use the forum but it is totally free.

I don’t want you to go to the trouble of re writing your posts - just cut and past!

You have raised some very important issues and I thank you and I hope to see you there

Kind regards
Emma
 
Why dont you contact Simon Davies of Bucks? he is a dealer who has struggled to get a governing type body up & running to over see dealers, it dodnt take off I tihnk as the joining fee was too high but he clearly knows what the industry needs?
 
Thank you Ponyplanet - I have sent you a message.

From communications so far I have been told industry governing bodies are meeting in February and will be - amongst other things - discussing the ‘feasibility’ of licensing and regulating equine dealers and traders. This is a start - at least the subject is on their radar! That said, you will appreciate the answers to your questions are a way off especially if a repeat of passport administration errors and inadequate enforcement are to be avoided.

Governing bodies need to be forced to look at all their failings and stop depending on law abiding horse owners to pay for and make their inadequate systems work. That said without pressure from the equestrian community they will continue to get away with grand statements such as

"It goes without saying the horse industry is committed to insuring that the welfare of all horses is protected by the adoption of good husbandry practices"

- So committed in fact that if all the equines suffering and dying in this country right now were put together Amersham would pale into insignificance. Just one example - soon after Spindles Farm the ILPH were investigating cases in Wales and Scotland that jointly involved 100 horses………Are we prepared to let this continue?

The UK horse owning and riding populating generate around £4billion a year and there are approximately 2.4 million of us. One law will not be the solution to the equine welfare crisis in this country (and there is one make no mistake) but a message from us that we will no longer tolerate lip service, paying membership/passport fees etc and demand a complete over haul of the welfare protection system will.

In regard of the fact dealers and traders of other livestock are licensed and the law is enforced - In a letter that has been sent to the heads of equestrian governing bodies this question has been asked:-

The arguments I hear against introducing licenses for dealers and traders are put down predominantly to inherent complexities and multiple implications. Is it then the case that unscrupulous dealers and traders will be allowed to continue to do as they please making a mockery of the combined intelligence and business acumen of equine industry heads?

The petition to licence dealers and traders is just the start. Who foots the bill, enforces the law and works out how it is enforced? You have the power to decide IF and only if pressure in put on the industry heads. It is THEIR job not the general publics to ensure equine welfare in this country - bearing in mind the only ones truly currently paying the price are horses ponies donkeys and mules …..with their lives!

Regards
Emma
 
i'm not sure it's really 100% a "dealer" problem..

as i've mentioned many times before, if Joe Public didn't buy from "dodgy dealers" in the first place, these places would soon be out of business...

i, for one, would be well pi55ed off if i needed to get a licence to buy and sell ponies...................after doing it for 20 odd years without!
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

How do you define the difference between a ‘dodgy dealer’ and a professional, caring respectable dealer ……….such as yourself?
 
In the area that i live there are what i call a 'numpty head' dealer family.
They have little knowledge or compassion for their horses, which is evident by the state of some of the horses. Strangely, they feel they are doing a great job by taking on the horses that nobody wants. They tend not to give them the care they need and 'lose' many in their care.
The authorities are contacted constantly about them but do nothing that is remotely effective. The 'numpties' keep their worse looking states at a yard, hidden from people.
One was bought by one of our customers, to 'save' it and she brought the photos into my shop to show me. They were appalling, i was amazed that this poor horse who was a living skeleton, was in fact still alive. The dnumpties had already had it for some time and bred from it.
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Its a shame that these types give dealers a bad name.

I for one think it is a great idea that ALL dealers should have to gain a license to buy and sell horses.
If someone has nothing to hide they would not having to have one. After all it is a business and why should the care of horses be considered anything less than that of children in care or animals kept in zoos. They are all eqeally vulnerable and open to possible abuse without the intervention of authorities.

I have-on my travels- been to some yards where you can just see that the ethos of horsemanship is of the less desirable type. Horses darent even put their head over the stable doors because they have learnt that this is unsafe for them. These types should be closed down-so something does need to change.

As i said earlier the good practisioners would have no concern at all about the prospect of licensing.
 
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As i said earlier the good practisioners would have no concern at all about the prospect of licensing.

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I agree - From the evidence I am receiving it seems reputable equine dealers have no problem with the idea of being licensed. They would prefer be distanced from disreputable dealers - rather than be 'tarred with the same brush'.
 
Here are a few more stories that highlight the equine welfare crisis in the UK.
( I hope the links work)

If any of you come across welfare stories either on or off line would you be kind enough to let me know. They are being added to the document to go with the petition and to build a case that provides evidence that a complete review of equine welfare is needed across the industry
Thank you
Emma

Residents tell of fears over horses on loose
http://www.northantset.co.uk/wellingborough/Residents-tell-of-fears-over.3746223.jp

Foal died 24 hours before help arrives
http://www.freepressseries.co.uk/mostpop...elp_arrives.php

31 horses removed because of poor living conditions
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7228094.stm
 
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The 'numpties' keep their worse looking states at a yard, hidden from people.



.

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A friend of mine was in a yard like that once when she was looking for a 'project' horse. The dealer had half decent horses on the yard then took her round the back, lifted up a makeshift curtain to which he then showed her lots of very poorly looking animals
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All of which she wouldnt of touched with a bargepole! It probably is quite a common thing amongst the dodgier dealers
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[ QUOTE ]
Here are a few more stories that highlight the equine welfare crisis in the UK.
( I hope the links work)

If any of you come across welfare stories either on or off line would you be kind enough to let me know. They are being added to the document to go with the petition and to build a case that provides evidence that a complete review of equine welfare is needed across the industry
Thank you
Emma

Residents tell of fears over horses on loose
http://www.northantset.co.uk/wellingborough/Residents-tell-of-fears-over.3746223.jp

Foal died 24 hours before help arrives
http://www.freepressseries.co.uk/mostpop...elp_arrives.php

31 horses removed because of poor living conditions
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7228094.stm

[/ QUOTE ]

These stories do not support the claimed need for licensing of dealers.

The first is essentially a story about the failure of the police to enforce existing legislation regarding animals loose on the road.

The Animal Welfare Act 2006 is quite clear. One can be prosecuted for having animals in conditions in which they might suffer if the conditions are not changed.

So the RSPCA and other organizations are simply failing to use the powers available to them.

No new powers or licensing are needed here.

The next two items are speculative in that we have not heard from the Defence and until there is a successful prosecution all we have is an incident that is horrible and for which we all seem to be looking for someone to blame.

Hard cases make bad laws. Before we introduce even more restrictions and costs on having anything to do with horses, or indeed any animal, let us make sure that the existing laws are properly enforced and that the failure is one of failure to act and not one of lack of power.

The real campaign should be for No New Legislation and taxes on horse and other animal owners while existing legislation is not fully enforced.

Remember that all of the costs of this will be passed on to the end user. And that is every one who owns or rides a horse.

The next step is likely to be licensing of owners and riders.
 
ILPH are doing the same petition need to find the link and post it..what really gets me more than anything is that people complain that nothing is being done BUT when someone is working hard trying to make an effort towards a change there is no support ????
It may or may not work but who will know unless you try ?
And also look at the Animal Welfare Act...that one started with petition and have now saved the Amersham Horses and the horses that were rescued the other day...Rome was not build in one day and you got to start some where..so stop moaning and complaining and support the people that are trying to make an effort !!!! Or think of something that think can make a change !!!
 
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

How do you define the difference between a ‘dodgy dealer’ and a professional, caring respectable dealer ……….such as yourself?

[/ QUOTE ]

all the ponies i buy are wormed, are fed groomed rugged if neccesary and receive whatever treatment is needed before they are found a new home.

I sell upwards of 50 ponies a year...mostly colts that i've bought from the New Forest.

i suppose i'm regarded as a dealer due to the numbers of ponies i sell, but i also have a "real" job for 25 hrs per week to support them!!

i've been to Southall (now thankfully no more!), go to Reading, Exeter, Taunton, Leominster, Llanybidder, Shrewsbury...all over really and believe me you get to "know" the guys who wouldnt p1ss on a horse if it was on fire...they arent there to buy a pony that they can see in a nice PC home..they are there to make money..END OF!

there is a hidden code amongst the dealers..they bid on each others ponies to up the price as joe public is bidding to get a higher price...they even "buy" ponies back if they feel they could get more at the next sale..

i ONLY buy ponies i can do something with..beit a 6 month old colt or a 12 yr old Dobbin.....it matters only that it looks at least 70% viable and i can make up the 30% when its sold on.

i would NEVER buy something that i call the "ah factor pony".....every "dealer" has one or two at a sale.....because a few members of the public insist on "rescueing" a pony from the "meatman"

i do sell at sales..but not often, picking and choosing where and at what time of year to get the better type of buyer.

the type of "dealer" i would discribe as what everyone refers to as "dodgy" is the type that buys up sale dregs and sells them on as good riding ponies to a gullible and novice public..
 
Paddywhack I echo your thoughts entirely and do believe that licensing may be the step forward if only to generate monies that can be used towards the cost of overseeing the welfare of equines.
Funding has to come from somewhere and sadly I don't think most of joe public would feel the urge to give up some coffers.
My own personal view is that in order to maintain the long term welfare of equines we need a change in this country.
The present system is not working and there has to be a change.
More education about welfare and animal husbandry ( not just equines) is needed. Stopping the source of needless cases of cruelty and neglect is another by regulating breeding and stopping the unscrupulous people who just perceive the animal as a money making machines and to hell with the consequences of equines raised on poor nutrition or with severe congenital and conformation defects being passed to joe public.
There is a time and a place for slaughter of equines though which are deemed as either dangerous or where there will be no future quality of life due to defects, that is not what I am disputing as I have no issue with slaughter on humane grounds.
I am against the breeding and slaughter of horses for food though and although seemingly in a minority on this forum my views on that will not change. However my post is not about that subject I am just merely expressing my views on that matter whilst we are discussing licensing dealers.
The horse passport system is a joke and I feel we should have the same records on equines as you would a car and regulated as such so that tracing equines over the period of their life is possible.
If the cost of introducing such a system means a tax or licence on horse dealers, owners and breeders then so be it in my eyes.
I would have no qualms about paying such a charge so long as the revenue raised was ploughed back into the horse industry and the money spent wisely to protect both horse and rider alike. I say that because as JMO7 rightly pointed out there are dealers who will sell horses and ponies as unfit for purpose. My interpretation of her words are that they are not safe enough to be ridden or kept as field ornaments due to both physical and mental problems and should not be passed on to joe public.
Joe public needs to be protected from these unscrupulous people and those equines that will ultimately suffer as a result need to be removed from the system entirely or prevented from being in that situation in the first place.
Abused horses can be literally anywhere and even end up going under the hammer at an auction. Unless there are people who know how to specifically deal with their problems then sadly these animals will ultimately become someone else's problem further down the line unless slaughtered or being bought by a caring and knowledgeable home.
These equines end up in the situation due to many reasons including poor handling and rearing as foals, poor breaking in methods being applied, poor nutrition and them ending up with inexperienced owners who fail to address issues properly and these animals just end up doing the rounds at the sales. That is just a few examples but there are more.
Overbreeding is another major cause of the problem as there are too many horses and ponies. Rescue centres are flooded with equines needing new homes year in year out.
It would be very interesting if someone conducted a study into the average duration a typical horse or pony stays in each home before being passed around?
I would hazard a guess that the results would be shocking.
I know I am not going to make any friends with this post but I feel it should be said. I think as in the case with other pets that we humans have for self pleasure and gratification ( dogs and cats included) that we live in a society in which it is all too easy to simply throw away.
Overbreeding of cats and dogs for example. People taking on pets as a whim, growing bored of them or underestimating the costs involved and then just throwing the animal out with no thought as to the consequences and welfare of the animals.
I feel it is the same in the horse world. Overbreeding and flooding the market with unwanted equines. People preferring not to take the kinder option of having an elderly horse or pony pts, instead passing them on privately or at the auctions with no guarantee of the future welfare of the said animal. Out of sight out of mind in many cases.
I can remember seeing a 24 year old gelding for sale at the auction in the catalogue and thank gawd it was a no show or else I could not have been forgiven for the ear bashing I would have given that person who had sent it to the sales!
If you cannot keep an elderly or aged equine then why not put it down instead of burdening overstretched rescue centres or passing it on to people not knowing where it will end up.
I think too many of us have little thought about the consequences of our actions and like it or not we are all part of the same problem when it comes to cruelty, neglect and the welfare of equines.
This issue does not concern a few people of the horse community. It affects us all and we all need to question our stance within the bigger issue. We are all guilty in one form of another of contributing to the overall problem whether that is by demanding the production of the perfect equine athlete, to throwing out or passing on equines no longer suitable for our purpose. Talking but no action solves nothing but petitioning and campaigning goes a very long way to sorting out a problem. Constant arguing within the horse community about who should pay for what with people saying they don't want to contribute because it is something they feel they don't have to pay towards achieves nothing.
If everyone in the community gave just a little of their time and pennies then overall the time given would be beneficial and those pounds and pennies would soon mount up and providing we could establish a committed organisation to organise those efforts and spend the monies wisely then big changes for the better could be achieved.
But to just keep bouncing around off each other and arguing serves little purpose. It is like playing a fast game of squash, sooner or later someone will take their eye off the ball and the game will be lost.
We all need to pull together on this one and unless funding and resources can be derived by another form of taxing then starting with the people who make money out of horses for a living seems a good way to start since they should in my opinion give something back to equines.
Licensing breeders and owners would then be another way forward to derive monies to be used to ensure the future welfare of equines. I would personally have no qualms about paying for a licence to keep my horses if that money was used to increase welfare standards of equines and to educate joe public and people in the horse community about the need for such changes.
Sorry for long post.
Caroline
 
Thank you Fenris for your post.

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These stories do not support the claimed need for licensing of dealers.

- As I mentioned these stories are being added to the document to go with the petition to build a case that provides evidence that a complete review of equine welfare is needed across the industry. Licensing and regulating dealers and traders is just one area that needs to be addressed.


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The Animal Welfare Act 2006 is quite clear. One can be prosecuted for having animals in conditions in which they might suffer if the conditions are not changed.

So the RSPCA and other organizations are simply failing to use the powers available to them.

No new powers or licensing are needed here.

- I do not believe anyone will dispute laws are useless with out enforcement - the problem is - enforcement or not - the industry is still only fire fighting as opposed to being preventative. In an ideal world we would not need legislation let alone more of it - but the equestrian industry is far from ideal.

I take on board your views and many share them which I respect but the petition is not just about changing the law it is about saying the 'majority' of the UK equestrian community has had enough. The petition means we make a stand. For too long people have paid for membership fees, passport fees, rising insurance fees - the list goes on - while in the mean time nothing changes. Organizations are quick to ask for support and funds when it works for them - and because we care we respond gladly and they know we will, but who is truly listening when there are concerns and support wanted at grass root level? I am for one and I will always provide a platform for people to fight for change where change is needed. There has never been an independent body that horse owners, riders and enthusiasts can turn to - well there is now!


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Hard cases make bad laws. Before we introduce even more restrictions and costs on having anything to do with horses, or indeed any animal, let us make sure that the existing laws are properly enforced and that the failure is one of failure to act and not one of lack of power.

- You say 'let us make sure that the existing laws are properly enforced - but if you read DEFRAs Animal Health & Welfare delivery landscape 2008 and Strategy for the Horse Industry in England and Wales - Action Plan March 2007 and reports on those reports you see a bigger picture - I quote

"The animal welfare delivery landscape is too complex and too fragmented and in need of reform. It is made up of a multiplicity of partners of various sizes and kinds, with different cultures, powers, and attitudes towards enforcement, under differing political pressures, located in numerous geographical locations". It goes on
"It is intended to work within an agreed national strategy for achieving defined policy outcomes, but is not capable in its present form of being managed as an entity, nor is it delivering consistent results efficiently or effectively."

You say "The real campaign should be for No New Legislation and taxes on horse and other animal owners while existing legislation is not fully enforced."

Firstly I have never mentioned that a change in the law would be a 'tax' on horse and other animal owners and secondly as the above quote shows the industry is in no fit state to enforce anything. Are you prepared to wait? Yes enforcement would be ideal but it is unrealistic as a sole goal in the current climate.

You may then ask how would a new law be enforced if current laws are not - the difference is this wold be a law brought about by the people and the collective pressure for enforcement would ensure it - because collective pressure can come in many forms.

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Remember that all of the costs of this will be passed on to the end user. And that is every one who owns or rides a horse.

- This is an assumption not a fact.

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The next step is likely to be licensing of owners and riders.

- This is off the topic but yes may be so - it would be hard for the industry to justify it based on the passport situation but if a strong, intelligent convincing case was put forward guaranteeing a positive impact on equine welfare in this country I personally would not have a problem with it - but I would open the debate with my members and the people that contact me and take their lead on what they believe is the most effective course and pursue it on their behalf.
 
Paddywhack is right - Doing nothing is no longer an option. The petition is the direct result of the collective need to act.

Different courses of action were considered but this petition was chosen specifically because it would open up debate - which it has, people are much more aware of who they buy and sell to already and it touches every element of horse ownership because the majority of horses in the UK will change hands at least once.

Thank you JM07 for coming back.

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I sell upwards of 50 ponies a year...mostly colts that i've bought from the New Forest.

i suppose i'm regarded as a dealer due to the numbers of ponies i sell, but i also have a "real" job for 25 hrs per week to support them!!

i've been to Southall (now thankfully no more!), go to Reading, Exeter, Taunton, Leominster, Llanybidder, Shrewsbury...all over really and believe me you get to "know" the guys who wouldnt p1ss on a horse if it was on fire...they arent there to buy a pony that they can see in a nice PC home..they are there to make money..END OF!

- It is with the greatest respect I ask this but do you only sell to PC homes? in which case do/would you pull your horses/ponies out of the sale if the 'wrong' person is bidding?

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There is a hidden code amongst the dealers..they bid on each others ponies to up the price as joe public is bidding to get a higher price...they even "buy" ponies back if they feel they could get more at the next sale..

- This goes on at all kinds of sales, sheep, cattle , property - I have known a auctioneer create a fake bidder to push a price up. Corruption is rife.


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i ONLY buy ponies i can do something with..beit a 6 month old colt or a 12 yr old Dobbin.....it matters only that it looks at least 70% viable and i can make up the 30% when its sold on.

i would NEVER buy something that i call the "ah factor pony".....every "dealer" has one or two at a sale.....because a few members of the public insist on "rescueing" a pony from the "meatman"

- Why not if you believe you can sell it to a good home?

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i do sell at sales..but not often, picking and choosing where and at what time of year to get the better type of buyer.

- Can you - would you then be willing to pass on some of your knowledge to help 'Jo Public' know which markets to stop going to - because if they are not there to buy there is no point 'dodgy' dealers and breeders waiting to line their pockets off the back of equine 'dregs' as you call them and vulnerable buyers.
 
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Overbreeding is another major cause of the problem as there are too many horses and ponies. Rescue centres are flooded with equines needing new homes year in year out.

- The breeding epidemic in this country, you are right, is out of control, it is another area to be address but if we get licensing in at the dealer end it will start to have a knock on effect. Also if buyers asked to see references from previous customers and followed those references up and refused to buy without recommendation it would start to force unscrupulous dealers out of business. The same if someone buys from a breeder.

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It would be very interesting if someone conducted a study into the average duration a typical horse or pony stays in each home before being passed around?

I would hazard a guess that the results would be shocking.

- I can set up a survey if you would be interested in helping me let people know it exists. If you and others want to think about the questions you want on it. I would be more than happy to run it for you and then we can publicize the results and make sure the information gets to the right people.


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I know I am not going to make any friends with this post

- I support you in your belief that old and infirm equines should be spared the injustice of being sold on to uncertain fates.

I know a breeder who used to sell his old brood mares at market once they were no longer producing. After a life time of service havening never been off the farm they were herded into a lorry - put through the ring invariably ending up in the back of a meat wagon shipped off to be shot. He did it because it is what his farther did and his grandfather did and what 'everyone' else does. A few gentle conversations, lots if cups of tea - a man who has lived an breathed horses all his life - 'knew it all' now puts them down at home. I defy anyone who has witnessed first hand an equine pensioner or unsound or poor individual go through the hell (for them) of a sale ring where only the unscrupulous and meat men rub their hands and not believe a peaceful dignified end is the least we can do for them.

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Constant arguing within the horse community about who should pay for what with people saying they don't want to contribute because it is something they feel they don't have to pay towards achieves nothing.

- But people have the right to their opinion and as long as the conversations can be kept constructive then great good can come form sharing different points of view and healthy debate. It is harder to work for solutions with this kind of subject because people don't get instant gratification like they do when donating to a worthy cause for example, but the long term rewards are so much greater - epically for the animals!

Hi EstherSupporter,

I did not personally but I have a fantastic hard working bunch of members who are out and about across the UK putting up flyer's and collecting off line signatures. If anyone wants to help and join in please just let me know.

Sorry I don't have the time to get back to you all as often as I would like.

Thank you to everyone for sharing your views and thoughts - they are very much appreciated.

Emma
 

Hi Emma.
Thanx for replying......I remember speaking to a lady on the telephone about the petition and then it was delivered when I had a day off (very rare lol) so I didnt know who had dropped it in or who it is to be returned to???

Do i post it off or will someone pick it up......not full up yet tho ....just planning ahead lol
 
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Thank you JM07 for coming back.

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- It is with the greatest respect I ask this but do you only sell to PC homes? in which case do/would you pull your horses/ponies out of the sale if the 'wrong' person is bidding? [ QUOTE ]


mostly family type homes..i rarely sell at a sale..as i said in my original reply, and yes, if i feel a buyer isnt suited to the pony, or vice-versa then I dont sell.



[ QUOTE ]
i ONLY buy ponies i can do something with..beit a 6 month old colt or a 12 yr old Dobbin.....it matters only that it looks at least 70% viable and i can make up the 30% when its sold on.

i would NEVER buy something that i call the "ah factor pony".....every "dealer" has one or two at a sale.....because a few members of the public insist on "rescueing" a pony from the "meatman"[ QUOTE ]


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- Why not if you believe you can sell it to a good home? [ QUOTE ]


because it fuels the "neglect" fire...

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i do sell at sales..but not often, picking and choosing where and at what time of year to get the better type of buyer.[ QUOTE ]


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- Can you - would you then be willing to pass on some of your knowledge to help 'Jo Public' know which markets to stop going to - because if they are not there to buy there is no point 'dodgy' dealers and breeders waiting to line their pockets off the back of equine 'dregs' as you call them and vulnerable buyers.

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no problem......
markets i would like to see "Upgraded" are Reading. Beeston, Brecon, Melton, Llanybidder....These sales would do well if the folk who ran them spent a day at Leominster...THAT is how a monthly Pony/Horse market should be run...

SHUT DOWN....USK!!!!!!!
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