Philippe Karl - School of Légèreté

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juliap

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My instructor is following his course and is bringing his methods to lessons. I've only had a couple of lessons using this approach but it makes sense.

My horse ISH is built slightly downhill, with a long back and previous approaches of having still hands & trying to activate / engage the hind legs wasn't helping to lighten the front end.

By lengthening & raising the neck he seems to activate his hind quarters without having to kick him.

It feels strange at the moment esp at the start of a session but as he releases & gets more mobile in his poll and neck it starts to feel better.

Has anyone followed his methods and what do you think?
 
Really like these methods :) Had the chance to be a working pupil at a yard teaching them but sadly didn't think it would work for me at the time :( Wish it could have worked out better really as think it would have been very beneficial. My lad certainly made a quick improvement in attitude as well as work.
 
yup, I'm one of the "auditors" on the teacher training course :)

Also riding on the Birgit clinic at Derek's this weekend...... will you be there?
 
no - my instructor has been attending as a "listener".

It's a different approach & it's hard not to fall back into old habits - it feels a bit strange at the moment but I've only just started back with lessons after a bad fall in May so there is a lot to absorb.

I have noticed such a huge difference in forwardness once the neck & shoulders are up and mobile. I can't wait to see how it develops. I'm also struggling to get out of my habit of nagging with my legs until he starts to go forward properly.

It's a lot to take on at the mo but I'm enjoying it.

Have you seen the new dvd's - are they worth getting? Are the new ones better than the previous series?

Hope the clinic goes well.
 
glad you're benefitting from it :)

not sure I have seen the latest DVD actually, if I'm honest.....

Do let me know how you get on with it :)
 
juliap said:
My instructor is following his course and is bringing his methods to lessons. I've only had a couple of lessons using this approach but it makes sense.

By lengthening & raising the neck he seems to activate his hind quarters without having to kick him.
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Could you explain what you mean by lengthening and raising the neck and how you go about this?

Thanks.
 
I'll try to explain but as I said I've only had a couple of lessons so may get it wrong.

To start I have to make sure he is forward but not by endless nagging with the legs - one nudge on a 20m is all that I'm allowed to do. If he slows in whatever pace then I use my whip just behind my leg in an increasingly hard tap. It doesn't take long before he gets the message he has to stay in the pace he's been put in.

All this is done ignoring where his head is & with no restriction if he launches forward from a tap - mustn't be punished with a pull if he leaps forward - I use a neck strap so I can put reins in one hand & use the whip with the other.

Once forwardness is established then I have my outside hand still with my elbow softly against my side & the usual elbow,wrist to bit straight line. With the inside rein slightly shorter I raise it to get an inside flexion - this without pulling back at all. As soon as he softens I bring the hand down/give as reward. To start with I have to lift it quite a lot & have it fairly short.

It's taking both of us a while to get it & it seems really messy to start with but as he loosens up then less flexion is needed. The aim is to keep the neck & shoulders up and head should never be behind the vertical.

I do 20m circles with inside & outside flexion then figures of 8 keeping the same flexion - ie inside on one circle then outside on the next, inside on both, outside on both etc and in all paces. It is a great workout & really makes him mobile.

I used to keep my hands still & try to activate the hind legs but it seemed to push him more on his forehand.

Every now & again I give with both reins so he can stretch & the power in the trot is great - once his shoulders are up he has the room to bring his hindlegs through & under.

I hope I haven't got it too wrong - hopefully someone with more knowledge will correct me. :)
 
This makes sense to me too. Its all about the horse being in balance. Having just got my homebred youngster back from loan with her head between her front legs, totally on the forehand, and completely dead to the leg, I'm having to just use my seat, and constant transitions, and lateral work with a very light hand, to encourage her to rebalance herself. The worst thing is how dead she is to the leg. I'm following Nuno Oliveira's principles, and doing a lot of halt to trot, and also turns on the haunches, with aids for one step at a time, to get her to listen and react to light leg aids. Rome wasn't built in a day though!
Going out with the bloodhounds has helped a lot as well!!
 
How interesting, and relevant. I am a terrible leg nagger, and have had to reeducate myself on my youngster to ask for the required pace and then do nothing. It is slightly alien to ride with the legs inactive unless I want a change but horse loves it. He hates being nagged and was getting switched off and confused. The other downside to me nagging was that he was rushing, he is now slower, feels too slow sometimes, but is able to elevate his shoulders and take much longer steps.

We woudl love more classical lessons - along these lines, in the meantime I will have to put the book on my Christmas list!
 
LMR said:
Can anyone recommend me which dvd or book they think is the best? I was thinking about buying one.
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Don't know where in Scotland you are but Catherine Marshall is on the PK instructors programme .. and she is based in the Central Belt. Her contact details are listed on the School of Légèreté website. My sister who is auditing really rates her as one of the best on the programme.
 
Yes! I borrowed the DVD's a few months ago and earlier this week started Classical Dressage lessons.

WOW! It's the first time EVER I have felt my horse lift his back and start to use his hind end properly. Best riding lesson I've ever had in my life, time flew by, neither of us got stressed or tired (physically at least!) and we both came out happy and with someone homework.

LOVE IT!
 
Zuzan said:
Don't know where in Scotland you are but Catherine Marshall is on the PK instructors programme .. and she is based in the Central Belt. Her contact details are listed on the School of Légèreté website. My sister who is auditing really rates her as one of the best on the programme.
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yes, from what I've seen on the clinic, Catherine is a lovely rider (and her little bay horse is just great....).

I think juliap, you’ve got a pretty good description there of things... though for any other reader’s benefit, it might be worth mentioning that what you’re doing there is still very early stages stuff and it does refine right down from that.

One of things I really like about PK’s work is the notion that actually it’s not just “talented” horses (i.e. big warmbloods!!) that can go well with his methods. Though of course some horses will find things naturally easier than others.

It’s funny, in some ways his work isn’t a million miles from a lot of other lines of classical dressage (in a way, why would it be, it all has its roots in a lot of the great masters) but there are some bits that are distinctly different. PK has an obsession (and I don’t even think he’d mind me calling it that!) with the idea that the riders hands absolutely must be good/ must not pull back/ must not pull the horse into an outline/ must not cause the horse to overbend, etc. It’s therefore a rather refreshing antidote to the attitude of much of the modern dressage training ideas of draw reins and holding the head in while kicking the horse on and wondering why the horse doesn’t know whether he’s actually supposed to stop or to go. Of course that’s not to say that he doesn’t use the hand, he does – but he always looks to flex a horse laterally before he looks to flex at the poll and then the flexion of the poll comes from the lateral flexions.
 
I've only had 2 lessons so far but can't wait for the next one to keep on working on it. Had a good schooling session this morn - we are both getting the hang of it & he doesn't need much persuading to stay forward although why I still use my legs even when he's going forward I really don't know.

It is such a bad habit & one I'm trying v hard to break - I'm thinking about so much at the mo my brain is struggling to keep control of everything. You'd think it would be easy not to do something wouldn't you?
 
Northampton / Daventry is the host yard (Holistic Equitation) and Derek Clark there is also on the instructors programme .. otherwise they are all listed here Becky Holden might cover your area

Personally think that Twisted Truths is his best book .. Derek translated an earlier work The Art of Riding which is also good but it is an "earlier work". Twisted Truths is a basically a critique of "modern" competition (FEI) Dressage but is very good at explaining the theory behind his work to.

His work is very much based on Baucher's 2nd method (def not his first) .. check out Knight Books for old masters on Baucher. However there is something in PKs method which isn't covered by these earlier texts I think as he uses extension more than is implied by these texts... at least thats my interpretation.
 
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Zuzan said:
Don't know where in Scotland you are but Catherine Marshall is on the PK instructors programme .. and she is based in the Central Belt. Her contact details are listed on the School of Légèreté website. My sister who is auditing really rates her as one of the best on the programme.
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I am based in Fife so would definitely be interested. Does she hold clinics, travel or go to her? Would be interested in going along to watch first then to have a lesson.
 
I think Catherine will travel to your yard.. but would give her a bell to discuss. I am busy working out how I can manage to get some lessons with her as unfortunately live several hours away.
 
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