Phillipe Karl Training Method

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MissMistletoe

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I have a nice 5 year old late starter whom I broke in and began to ride away and for unforeseen reasons, haven't worked since October.

I have been doing some research over the past few weeks as I have been getting lots of articles on Straightness Training coming up on my FB newsfeed. I was impressed with the information and it all made sense, so I started to look at lots of ST videos on Youtube. Then after hearing on this forum on an old thread somewhere that ST is a system based upon old methods/classical masters etc and it was not invented by the ST lady (name begins with M) I suddenly became fascinated with 'work in-hand'.

I then came across Phillipe Karl on Youtube and his methods have caught my attention. I feel that this (and other trainers using this method) is a very good way of training the horse and seems to make a lot of sense.

Just a query I have to ask any of you with any knowledge of PK's method.

The lifting of the hands. Please in simple terms explain why you do this. I understand that the aim is to have the horse reaching down and forward into the bit and consequently the rider lowers the hands as a reward. But I have seen riders lift their hands whilst the head is low anyway.

Do you think that the horse's benefit from this training from a soundness pov and most importantly, are they happy in their work?

Pm me if you wish, but I am intrigued to find out more the good and the not so good.

My horse is going to be a low key allrounder, mostly hacking out, but I want to do right by my horse (as we should really)

Also, if you know of any trainers who could help along the way, please pm me for my location.

Thanks.

Appologies if I don't reply soon, i'm nipping out after Ive walked the dog!
 
I would thoroughly recommend reading his classical dressage series DVDs
I am a fan and incorporate his jaw flexions into how I train my horses which makes them very light and easy in the contact. He is an amazing man, I've been lucky enough to spend time with him and the softness and welfare of the horses really is paramount to him, whilst being able to train them to a high level
 
I took a horse to a long lining training session taken by a trainee of his. This incorporated her demonstrating a number of 'jaw flexions' on my horse. The horse didn't actually have an issue with contact prior to the session, I thought I was simply going to have help with long lining.

I should have done my research more thoroughly before signing up to the clinic. It took weeks to settle the horse into accepting the contact again.

Maybe it is different when taught under saddle rather than in hand, but once bitten, twice shy, I won't be having any more to do with this system.
 
He is a very nice man who has written some entirely incomprehensible books which are full of diagrams and prolix reasonings. His horses go very nicely in the French manner (soft and round, with not as much "snap" and engagement as I personally like). The jaw flexions are pure Baucher (French manner), nothing new, and not IMO entirely helpful if you want to progress.
 
I did a "taster weekend" with one of his coaches, and I must stay that my horse had never gone better. I could feels his hindlegs working and he was so much more connected. I think there can be a problem with this "raising the hands" of how it is interpreted. You don't go around with your hands in the air, it is supposed to be a give from the horse and you release. I have seen some people riding round NOT releasing. If there was a local trainer, who had done the full 3 year course I would seek them out. Should I ever have a young horse again, this is the method I would use.

Phillipe Karl's books - quite entertaining! But what I liked was how you can train any horse to do dresage, it doesn't have to be a warmblood.
 
I'm a big fan! I've been spectating on his UK teacher course for the last couple of years and it's amazing to see some very ordinary horses doing some very extra ordinarily good work.

He has so much knowledge and experience that he always seems to know what to do - the change in the horses between the start and end of the session can be quite a transformation.

On top of all that he is a true gentleman and is very entertaining too.

So the hands OP - yes people can get this wrong but when used correctly it is an excellent tool for the box!

It can be used for a horse that doesn't take the contact forward, maybe they have been used to overbending or always gone inverted or possibly just fussy in the mouth or scared of the contact.
 
Becky Holden is one of his accredited teachers - she is very very good, having trained with Heather Moffett too and also done clicker training and in hand training. She is near Manchester but does regular clinics at June Scott's, in Bedfordshire. She is on Facebook. Otherwise don't they have a list of accredited trainers on his website?
There is also a set of DVDs which one of my contacts was circulating in return for a donation to a charity and they are well worth a watch if you can get hold of them.
 
I train when I can as am 5 hours away with his first accredited UK instructor Catherine Marshall.

The lifting of the hands really needs to be taught as in a riding lesson but the objective is to open the poll and extend the neck. It something that you have to develop a feel for. Whilst the books and DVD's are great nothing replaces an actual lesson .. I also find that attending the Instructors clinics really helpful. I also know Catherine runs clinics in the spring / summer as well as I have ridden at a few and always find them really helpful to watch too.

I really wouldn't call Philippe Karl a guru a Master yes.. Having watched him teach in the UK (bare in mind English is not his first language) his lessons are very intelligible and he has a terrific understanding of both horse and rider. They really are Master classes. But like most "Masters" he is very approachable and good at answering questions and only too keen to pass on his knowledge and experience.
 
MissMistletoe said:
...............
The lifting of the hands. Please in simple terms explain why you do this. I understand that the aim is to have the horse reaching down and forward into the bit and consequently the rider lowers the hands as a reward. But I have seen riders lift their hands whilst the head is low anyway...............
Click to expand...

The reason why a rider might raise their hands when the horse's head is already stretched down is to open the poll... to bring the head so that is in front of the vertical .. often you see horses in low position but the head is behind the vertical. This is very very common and many elite riders do this and to a certain extent this has been accepted as OK. Mostly I think as people do not know or understand how to open the poll. I suspect it may also have been confused with "rounding" which is normally done in higher position once the neck has been stretched.
 
Wheels said:
I'm a big fan! I've been spectating on his UK teacher course for the last couple of years and it's amazing to see some very ordinary horses doing some very extra ordinarily good work.

He has so much knowledge and experience that he always seems to know what to do - the change in the horses between the start and end of the session can be quite a transformation.

On top of all that he is a true gentleman and is very entertaining too.

So the hands OP - yes people can get this wrong but when used correctly it is an excellent tool for the box!

It can be used for a horse that doesn't take the contact forward, maybe they have been used to overbending or always gone inverted or possibly just fussy in the mouth or scared of the contact.
Click to expand...

Yes the hands are definitely the most misunderstood (and criticised), yet the most useful!
 
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