photographers? again...sorry!

diggerbez

diggerbez

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sorry i know that its been done to death but i really really don't understand event photographers sometimes...they moan about people nicking pics off their websites (completely understand why- its wrong/ infringement of copyright etc) and then when some of them come on here they explain how its a difficult industry to make money in- again, totally understand as i can imagine that it is...yet so many of them persist in only offering what i would consider to be expensive options to purchase photos...£15 for a print or a similar amount for hi res digital images. now don't get me wrong, occasionally people wish to purchase these things- i would if it was a spectacular jump or special occasion like HOYS or something...but for an ordinary BE jumping a relatively ordinary fence...well i have gazzilions of pictures like this...however, if they offered a lo res facebook version for £2-£5 or similar then i would probably happily buy 4-5 photos each time... i always now email the photographers to ask if they offer this and relatively few (round me anyway) do- just seems mental...surely £20 is better than £0? i will always buy cheap images but very rarely buy the more expesnive ones...am i missing something here? or am i right in thinking that its obvious why many photographers are struggling?
 
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No, I think you're spot on. I want a copy of the pic as a record of how it looked but I don't want a high-res one unless it is an exceptionally good photo (and realistically, how many are?!) It's nice to share them on Fb etc but low-res ones are just fine for that.
 
problem with low resolution images is that it looks bad on the photographer that has taken them (remember your images are representing their work to future clients) and your paying for their skills not just the printing. However you could ask for low resolution options some might be happy to provide them.

Bit like asking a painter to give you a sketch of an oil painting because you can't be bothered to pay the full fee for their work or creativity.

Those not making money are usually not through lack of work but lack of talent.
 
Totally agree! I've just bought three Facebook images at £2 each of a hunter trial my daughter was at. Only really wanted two but minimum order was £6 so the extra didn't break the bank. At a recent SJ comp the minimum I could have spent was £15 so didn't get anything. Okay you have to make a living but I think they're missing a trick.
 
horseloaner said:
problem with low resolution images is that it looks bad on the photographer that has taken them (remember your images are representing their work to future clients) and your paying for their skills not just the printing. However you could ask for low resolution options some might be happy to provide them.

Bit like asking a painter to give you a sketch of an oil painting because you can't be bothered to pay the full fee for their work or creativity.

Those not making money are usually not through lack of work but lack of talent.
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yes i suppose that i understand this HL...but really- would many people troll about looking at someone's facebook photos and decrying the quality of it? its not the same as displaying art in your house is it?
 
From a photographer's point of view... I set up my event photography business this year after years of freelancing for other event togs at county shows, hickstead shows etc etc... the new business is doing really really well for its first year!

I offer a range of purchase options, from 12x8 prints right down to 7x5. I print 9x6 on the day and have show day deals i.e. 3 9x6 photos for £25 or £10 each, which gives people an incentive to buy on the day. I offer 9x6 or 12x8 on the day, nothing else, no low res images.

However I also upload the photos to my website and offer low res photos for £4 each. These are no bigger than 600pixels on the longest side, not suitable to print (you might get away with a 6x4 but it's not going to be great quality). I offer a low res photo for £2 if you buy a £10 9x6 too which a lot of people seem to go for.

No other photographer in my area offers low res photos... if people want a print, they will buy a print. However the low res images are there to a. give people a low cost alternative to nicking them off my website and having my name sprawled across their picture 4 times and also getting a message to politely remove said photos if I do come across them or face having an invoice sent to them for the use, and b. to cater for those customers who may be on a budget and/or don't want a hard copy of the photo. I had one customer send me a lovely email this weekend thanking me for offering the low res option- she doesn't have the money to buy lots of prints and wanted to buy 1 low res pic from me as I am the only photographer in the area that offers them... she actually bought 3 because she couldn't choose which to go for!

Low res images don't look bad on the photographer, they are a cheaper alternative to having a print, and if you accept that the quality may be slightly less and the size is not huge, it should have no bearing on how good the photographer is.

I introduced a low res option primarily to reduce the amount of people (read kids and teenagers!!) nicking photos off my website, and it's worked, so I will continue to offer it on web sales. I won't charge pittance for them though, you see some 'photographers' charging £1, this will never put food on my table, but the £4 is IMO very reasonable and a lot of people go for this option as well as buying prints.

And it's also a useful option for producers selling horses- most of which email asking to use it in the advert, to which they are more than welcome too just so long as they put 'curteosy of twizzel pics' below it :)
 
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As a photographer I have thought long and hard about this I now offer a small jpeg for £2.50 for web use etc. It sells well and I really don't think it cuts into my sale of prints as I think it's a different market.
 
It is the fences they pick that really annoys me! Some fences look great from the back (so would make a great front pic of the horse jumping) and other fences look more spectacular than they actually are - why not pick these?? they always seem to pick the most boring fence on the course. I know they have to conisder the light ect, but how ever good the position or the big the smile on my face, I only ever buy a picture if it is at an interesting fence!
 
This does frustrate me as well as an amateur photographer as I am very picky about the quality/composition of any image I buy.

The payin for sketch not the oil painting doesn't really apply with equestrian photography as the finished product the photo is taken with no promise to purchase. Therefore if there is a choice between selling a low res image (which won't damage the photographers rep if cropped etc properly) and nothing the low res should always win especially when they can be used for advertising in themselves with a well placed web address in the corner etc.

I am very anti people 'stealing' copyrighted and watermarked images and now refuse to take photos even of friends who do so in the hope they will eventually learn!
 
Muddyboots said:
It is the fences they pick that really annoys me! Some fences look great from the back (so would make a great front pic of the horse jumping) and other fences look more spectacular than they actually are - why not pick these?? they always seem to pick the most boring fence on the course. I know they have to conisder the light ect, but how ever good the position or the big the smile on my face, I only ever buy a picture if it is at an interesting fence!
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I got moaned at on Sunday for not picking an interesting fence... I was stood by a whopping big trakehner! 'Why aren't you photographing the water?' I replied with 'All photographers photograph the water there is nothing special about it- small jump in and out', this jump is something different that nobody ever covers... plus it's huge!' 'oh... ok then' :P :P
 
Twizzel said:
I got moaned at on Sunday for not picking an interesting fence... I was stood by a whopping big trakehner! 'Why aren't you photographing the water?' I replied with 'All photographers photograph the water there is nothing special about it- small jump in and out', this jump is something different that nobody ever covers... plus it's huge!' 'oh... ok then' :P :P
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Good on you! shame you werent at the event i was at. The fences had some beautiful flowers set in it and the photographer was taking the images side on so you couldn't see any of them -it just looked like a square timber box!
 
Spidge offers an amazing deal. I have bought two off him that I would never have bought otherwise but they were good value. I have bought none eventing this year.
 
The photographers round here seem to offer low res digital images for a couple of quid - it's got to be the way forward, because as others have already said, a few pounds earned is better than none.

I like to post pics of my horse's outings on Facebook, but there's no way I'll buy any more hard copies of photos unless someone takes a truly exceptional one. There's only so many photos of the same ginger horse you can display in the house! But I'll probably always have a FB image for a couple of quid if it's a good pic.
 
I have the same bug bear about digital images.

I did an event in the summer on somebody else's horse (a catch ride when mine broke!) - he ended up winning. I didn't want to purchase a full price photo not of my horse, but I did happily spend a fiver on a digital image of his lovely medium trot, so I could out it on fb & show his owner :-)

I recently did a big event where the regular 'togs do a "buy 4 pics (£40) get free fb images" deal. However I was eyeing up a 4 shot special montage. This costed more (£48) than just 4 pics on their own. So when I enquired as to if I could have the free fb images too I was told they'd be £4 EACH...so an extra £16 on top of a £48 montage just for 4 digital images...which they'd give away for free if I'd spent LESS on 4 standard photos...?!? Think I missed something there!

So I didn't get the montage in the end as I wanted the digital images, I don't mind if they're low res they're just nice to share!
 
Twizzel I think you are spot on with your policy.:)
I would definitely end up spending more with you with the options you give !
 
glad its not just me...i'm with lauraandjack- i am adopting a new policy and only buying from togs who offer the lo res option in future....maybe they'll get the message! ha :rolleyes:
 
dixie said:
Twizzel I think you are spot on with your policy.:)
I would definitely end up spending more with you with the options you give !
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thankyou :) yes people seem to spend more, you rarely get someone buy just 1 low res pic, normally they buy a few (I had one person buy 10 all from 1 dressage test!) or buy a print plus the digital file.
 
One of our local photographers has been offering reasonably priced low res pics for a while now, and their business seems to be expanding rapidly, so presumably that approach has been successful for them!
 
diggerbez said:
yes i suppose that i understand this HL...but really- would many people troll about looking at someone's facebook photos and decrying the quality of it? its not the same as displaying art in your house is it?
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And anyway, its not making the photographer look bad as the quality isnt as good since if you buy a pic, you wont have his/her name on it anyway so nobody would even know who took it!
 
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