Photos before we fully go barefoot, just for the record

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Fifty Bales of Hay

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Here are my horses photos before his front shoes are taken off next week. He had the backs taken off 5 weeks ago. Thoughts and advice please re getting hoofboots to fit him. His fronts measure 14.5cm wide (but this might come down to 14cm after a trim) his backs measure 12.5cm width. Length - well that's anyone's guess??????? Please see the tape against his feet, his toes are so long and his heels aren't in the right place.























Phew - sorry there's so many!
 
Yes, you are going to be a bit restricted on choices there, give Liz at the hoofbootique a call :)

Have you seen alexhydes posts? I think she is using fusions pretty successfully on her much longer than wide girl.
 
Very flat and forward run feet. The heel bulbs need to really grow and beef up and then the toes won't be so far run forward. It's definitely a case of time and so typical of badly shod poorly balanced feet. I've seen horses shod all their lives with excellent balance. This isn't one of those I'm afraid.

I agree with ester, call Liz and send her the photos and be prepared to change boots in a six months/a year thereafter as the hoof capsule remodels and beefs up underneath.

Great photos. You'll be glad you took them in a years time! :)
 
Thanks, yes will talk to Liz next week, now I am organised with photos. I will no doubts need lots of help and encouragement, it's going to be a long road! I've only had him since the middle of May, and took off the back shoes straight away. I wasn't brave enough to take off the fronts but having a while to think about it and now he has settled, his next farrier appointment is next week - so off with the fronts! Eeeek!

I am happy to change boots again in a few months time, and will try if I can to get secondhand to fit him for now. As not even sure we'll be riding to start with. See how it goes.
 
for the backs I would get a glove fit kit to include 2.5 as I think that will be the size that fits. Possibly it will help after your farrier has trimmed if you can keep the edges rolled. It is much easier to boot with smooth rolled walls. If you are not happy using a rasp than a sanding block will work well. It may also help if you can get a glove to fit to get some straps for them.

As for the fronts then I have always found it better to measure once the shoes are off and the farrier has rolled the walls. Again I would keep rolling the walls every couple of days with a sanding block to prevent splitting as the nail holes come down.
 
I did mean to add that if this was my horse I would be asking the farrier not to rasp the walls on the fronts. Simply to remove the shoes and then roll the edges. The new growth is coming down tighter and if you can keep the edges rolled it will work it's way down.
 
There are a couple of facebook groups that are good for keeping an eye out for boots as well as ebay/preloved. I have never paid full price for any!
 
Thanks paddy. I think the top bit of growth is since he's been with me about 6 weeks/7 weeks? I can see it in the photos. His diet here will have changed as I don't feed starch or sugars, also he's been on some good vits and biotin for his feet. I think it's showing?

So the Glove would be a 2.5 ordinary fit? Any guess as to what the fronts might be? As I will need to act quite quickly once the shoes are off as he's going to be in quite a bit of pain I feel. If I can get a fit kit ready I can try on and order for the following days delivery, and keep him in his box on a deep bed until the boots arrive.

What do you mean if I can get a Glove to fit - to get some straps for them? Do you mean the straps above the boot? Or is there another strap that goes over the front of the boot? Sorry I am all new to this.
 
I think paddy means power straps, which tighten the front of the boot by stopping the v- section opening.
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My feeling would be re the fronts if you think he is going to be particularly sore would perhaps be to get some cavallos which are pretty forgiving fit wise and can be faffed with with pads and socks (of the human kind!) to alter fit a bit more than some of the others.
Usually plenty about on ebay etc 2nd hand.
I have some size 4 simples and size 4 sports (with pads) here if they might do the job but am not sure they will be long enough as am not that experienced at sizing from pics (I sent mine to liz! )
 
Thanks Ester, yes I've seen them before - pretty colours too but didn't realise what they actually did LOL.

It is the fronts I am more worried about at the moment. The backs although we've not been hacking he's been working just fine in the school and walks out over stones to the field with no fuss or limping/footiness. He will I think fairly quickly transition now on the backs, but of course with backs and fronts off he might go "backwards" on his feeling of the backs? So need to be prepared to boot him all round I guess?

I'll look up the sizes of the Cavallo's in 4's but I have a feeling his bulbs will be under pressure if they are too tight. Can pad out the sides of boots if he's not doing too much work initially.
 
ha, I bought silver ones to bling us up, thought it might be easier to find if I lost one but doesn't make blind bit of difference riding what we did last week though! I actually got them before I started trimming him myself because he would flare one side and wear the other because of how he walks so would quickly alter the fit. We do only ever have issues cantering having walked through deep sloshy mud though, I think just because they loose their grip a bit on a dry hoof (the inside of a glove is rough and grippy)- I ought to try their zinc oxide tape method at some point if/when using them again.

Yes that is my thought, you would need more length than a 4 to start with. I wouldn't worry too much about the hinds, have never booted them myself.
 
AMP said:
Thanks paddy. I think the top bit of growth is since he's been with me about 6 weeks/7 weeks? I can see it in the photos. His diet here will have changed as I don't feed starch or sugars, also he's been on some good vits and biotin for his feet. I think it's showing?

So the Glove would be a 2.5 ordinary fit? Any guess as to what the fronts might be? As I will need to act quite quickly once the shoes are off as he's going to be in quite a bit of pain I feel. If I can get a fit kit ready I can try on and order for the following days delivery, and keep him in his box on a deep bed until the boots arrive.

What do you mean if I can get a Glove to fit - to get some straps for them? Do you mean the straps above the boot? Or is there another strap that goes over the front of the boot? Sorry I am all new to this.
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yes the glove would be an ordinary fit but if you have to go there get a fit kit with 3 sizes in it.

the top bit shows your change in management and is improving. If you imagine that all the way down you can see his front feet are going to change in size. I would remove the fronts and go for the cheapest boots you can find that take pads. That may be cavallos but it will only be for a while. Having got the fronts off I would turn him out and let him get on with it. A few days won't hurt whilst you measure and source some boots. If you have say a short distance over stones in your yard you could carpet it and that will make it easier for him. If you have a half mile stoney track that won't help of course!

Until shoes come off the front you can never tell what is going to happen. Some with the most awful feet walk away quite happily and some with good feet are like cripples. I find it best just to find them a reasonable surface they can cope with, restricted grazing perhaps if necessary and to let them get on with it for a few days.
 
I was thinking Paddy if I got the fit kit to include a 2.5 to see if that's good on the back, that I might include in that kit a size that might be tried on the fronts, but no idea what to go for yet. Perhaps wait until the shoes are off then take pictures again and assess then before ordering a fit kit?

I know at the moment for the fronts because of his bulbs and getting them to fit in a boot, I'll need quite big ones that are going to be too wide, so will pad out the bottoms and the sides to stabilise them as much as I can.

Unfortunately the first few days are going to be the worst I feel. He's not going to be the type to "just get on with it" he is going to be walking like a cripple and this will be upsetting for me to watch. Hence trying to get something organised before next week for him now in preparation to get on as soon as shoes are off.

We don't have far to walk to the field, and I can walk to the side of the stones, it's just it's a good test as to how they are coping walking over them. A small paddock on his own is better for him than being out with my other horse who might decide to chase him round just for the fun of it!

I am getting a bit worried now about how it's all going to be! I'm not very good at ignoring a hobbling horse even for a few days, I am a bit of a softy I guess?
 
If he were mine I would have them removed in the field and plan to leave him out for a few weeks moving at his own pace. I would bute him if necessary, there's no need for him to be in agony. As I said to you already I did this with my daughter's pony, she's never had boots, was bare behind but very sore in front when she lost a shoe just after I got her 2 years ago. We shod her in front for the rest of the summer then around November when the nights were darker and wasn't bothered about riding so much they came off and she was left to it in the field. She was never in agony and in a couple of months was ok on stonier ground. Brought her back in to work slowly in the Jan (having not had her trimmed so there was some protective extra hoof wall) and she's been rock crunching and self trimming ever since.
 
AMP said:
I was thinking Paddy if I got the fit kit to include a 2.5 to see if that's good on the back, that I might include in that kit a size that might be tried on the fronts, but no idea what to go for yet. Perhaps wait until the shoes are off then take pictures again and assess then before ordering a fit kit?

I know at the moment for the fronts because of his bulbs and getting them to fit in a boot, I'll need quite big ones that are going to be too wide, so will pad out the bottoms and the sides to stabilise them as much as I can.

Unfortunately the first few days are going to be the worst I feel. He's not going to be the type to "just get on with it" he is going to be walking like a cripple and this will be upsetting for me to watch. Hence trying to get something organised before next week for him now in preparation to get on as soon as shoes are off.

We don't have far to walk to the field, and I can walk to the side of the stones, it's just it's a good test as to how they are coping walking over them. A small paddock on his own is better for him than being out with my other horse who might decide to chase him round just for the fun of it!

I am getting a bit worried now about how it's all going to be! I'm not very good at ignoring a hobbling horse even for a few days, I am a bit of a softy I guess?
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FW's is a good idea to turn him out. It you cannot do this because of grass then electric fence a grass track so he can move but not pig out. Whatever you do, don't fuss, just leave him alone. He will be in far more discomfort being constantly monitored and you being upset. You really cannot ever tell how a horse will react when the shoes comes off. He may hobble but he will get on with it. .

I think your fronts may start at 3.5 but end up at 3. I don't see why getting his front bulbs to fit in a boot is a problem. I would caution you against buying big boots that are too wide. Padding around the sides won't solve the issue, they will twist. That will make them useless and also dangerous. Boots have to fit and they fit tight. They are not like large comfortable slippers, if they don't fit and are not tight (or at least the correct tightness for the make of boot) they will come off. You really don't want a horse spooking itself and trotting around with a twisted boot half off. That also simply breaks the gaiters which you don't want to do at £25 or so to replace. To put a new glove on I use a mallet especially for the first few times as they are tight when new. There would be no room whatsoever for any padding around the edges and if there are gaps then that is what the power straps would help.

The bottoms of boots are padded (with comfort pads) for the feet not to make the boot fit.
Presumably you are only going to put boots on to ride or lead him out? he shouldn't need them just to go in the field.

walking over stones is a good test for a barefoot horse however not one just out of shoes. I wouldn't even be thinking of walking over stones for a long while yet. If he walks over them it certainly won't tell you he is sound enough to go over stones and if he wimps it will be painful for him and upsetting for you.

I have taken lots barefoot. If he was mine I would turn him out and just leave him for a couple of weeks.
 
Thanks FW and Paddy. Not something I'd thought of just turning him out. Its possible I guess, but he's not happy with the flies and we have no field shelters so sort of is weather dependant regarding this.

Is there no difference between how a say "native pony" copes with going barefoot to a "sportshorse" - is it much the same? I've somehow been led to believe or understood it's easier with ponies with the transition to barefoot (probably because so many are never shod in the first place?)

That makes sense about the boot fit, and yes primarily just for hacking out I'd like to be booting him initially. I am hopeful in the school on a surface he'll cope favourably but we will have to see. I'd not even consider taking a newly barefoot pony or horse over stones, but when they are happy with being barefoot my set up is ideal and I have a good indicator with having stones for them to walk over if I want them to. They don't "have" to though.

Taking the shoes off out in the field is a brilliant idea thank you, that hadn't even crossed my mind, I will get the farrier to do that and have a little paddock set up for him to stay in.
 
some ponies really struggle and some horses step out of shoes and never look back. Frank struggle for a while because of his negative palmar angle he had very flat soles, they still aren't amazing so even though he is welsh he doesn't have the best of foot confos.
 
ester said:
some ponies really struggle and some horses step out of shoes and never look back. .
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I'm afraid this is the case. You will only find out when they come off hopefully with minimal trimming. The horse will wear away any length and you, or the farrier, just need literally a tidy up to prevent chipping.

If you look at how they barefoot horses at Rockely, they take the shoes off, put the horse on a track and let them get on with walking. Every step they are walking they are improving, every hour spent just standing in a stable is doing nothing for the feet. I can sympathise with the flies. I have managed to keep ours out as long as possible with rugs and masks but even so I have had to bring them in for a couple of hours each day in the afternoons. Roll on winter.
 
Many apologies for not keeping this post up to date (see below, have had problems). Shoes came off on 8th July and here are the pictures:





























As a few people had suggested I left him out in the field to "get on with it" and didn't bring him into his stable as normal at night, then unfortunately went out on 12th July to find this:



So he's been on box-rest ever since but started going back out in the field this week. So we're back at "week one" really in our rehab programme, but so far haven't had to put boots on him. He was ridden today in the school and seemed to be moving well.
 
Poor boy!!! Hows the eye?

Feet look like they are already growing out a new angle which is fab.... like a hoof sigh of relief :)

Keep going :)
 
The eye is doing really well now. He had to have a General Anaesthetic to sort it out - so £2000 later with a fabulous surgeon/vet and the following day it looked like this:



Healing is continuing each day and although there's a bit of "pink" in the right hand corner to be seen now, you wouldn't really know he'd ever done anything.

I am glad the feet are already looking better to you, I see little difference in them myself, and he was a bit "ouchy" coming out the stable this morning onto the concrete, but trotted off in the field so can't be too bad?
 
Bless him.... he is gorgeous! What an experience.,.. Considering you've had such a traumatic setback and still so chipper, it's this attitude that will get you through :)

Wishing your boy all the very best!!

To me the feet are the barometer of horse health. Now the shoes are off, look at the sole by all means but take into account that growth. See and notice the footiness, the soundness, you're literally listening to how the horse is feeling...

My horse has never been shod and everyday is different. She's footy this morning due to the rain so the grass bulbs have released energy into the leaves in the form of sugar. It's a well grazed field, so I knew it would happen. No one else could ever know but I do because that's my gauge. I won't ride today or tomorrow as more rain forecast but I also know she will adapt in about a week. Bear in mind she comes in each day off grass, so by Thursday I will be able to school her.

No growth rings will be present as there's nothing to restrict this natural expansion in the foot. It's how nature has helped the horse in times of rich pickings.... plains horses will naturally seek rich grass after draught... the feet will expand and flatten due to enriched blood but the sole and frog will compensate, supporting the hoof inside. Predators know horses are more "lethargic" when at rich grazing so this is why they hang out at water holes and rich pasture for all grazers.

Sorry I digress......... anyway, don't fret. Let the feet do their thang as nature intended.

When I gave my old boy a chance, he had lami, navi and a box foot and I just really turned away for months and he was never better. He then competed 10 months later Xc and cane 3rd against all shod horses.

Just remember diet is 90% of the success story :)
 
Sorry FfionWinnie - I must have misunderstood or misinterpreted the replies? I thought I was doing best by leaving him in the field for his feet to adjust as was suggested? It was just an unfortunate accident, that's all. Then meant I couldn't get him out in the field at all for two weeks, due to being on box rest. I don't mean he was left in the field and not attended to.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Don't think anyone suggested leaving him out in the field to get on with it. Far from it.[/QUOTE

i had interpreted paddy555' s post in a similar way to amp as the suggestion ]was to take shoes off and leave him out for a couple of weeks and also earlier in the post said he may hobble but would get on with it ,
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Thanks for your posting splashgirl45, glad it wasn't just me, I thought I was going mad imagining things!

He is still hobbling a bit in the field, but we are only in week 2 due to the delay in being able to turn him out again. I wonder how long I should expect him to hobble when turned out in the field? The ground is very dry and not cricket pitch level, sort of uneven like most paddocks and this causes him to hobble even in walk. I have been turning him out alone as it seems unfair turning him out with others when he's not able to run away from them if chased or they try to involve him in the normal gelding games!
 
AMP said:
Thanks for your posting splashgirl45, glad it wasn't just me, I thought I was going mad imagining things!

He is still hobbling a bit in the field, but we are only in week 2 due to the delay in being able to turn him out again. I wonder how long I should expect him to hobble when turned out in the field? The ground is very dry and not cricket pitch level, sort of uneven like most paddocks and this causes him to hobble even in walk. I have been turning him out alone as it seems unfair turning him out with others when he's not able to run away from them if chased or they try to involve him in the normal gelding games!
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it was certainly what I meant to let him go out in the field and get on with it. Unfortunately I didn't foresee the eye injury. What a dreadful thing to happen, hope he is OK now with it poor lad.

If he is hobbling I wouldn't let him go with others where he could be chased. If it was possible I would still let him get out and get on with it but obviously it depends on your paddock. Sometimes you just have to adapt to suit your situation. Maybe he will have to come in out the flies and to have a lie down from the hard ground until the ground eases a bit. Sometimes what you would like to do in an ideal world has to be adapted to take into account the weather/ground.
 
Thanks Paddy - yes the eye is healing beautifully, but it's put us back a bit with out barefoot transitioning, with having to stay in for two weeks. I don't trust him now to stay out at nights so he has to go out in the heat with the flies and grin and bear it! Means I can turn the other one out at night and they don't have to be together too.

So he's getting quite a bit of time away from the hard ground to lie down etc.

But how long should I expect him to be hobbling like this for? A few weeks? Months? I can give him some painkillers if needed but if it goes on much longer I'll need to get more from a vet visit and I am convinced they will say "put his shoes back on again"
 
Thank you Tallho for your kind words and encouragement. I must say it's me who's finding it hard right now, watching him and although making progress with his eye, I see his lameness either getting worse some days or not improving, which I find hard.

He comes in every day off the grass, but he has to be out on the grass for some hours during the day, or I'd not be able to fill him up! He's a big horse and needs lots to eat!
 
It is tricky because the ground is so hard, he is also possibly getting to the stage where they get a bit worse as the hoof wakes up a bit.
did you get boots in the end? a few people, including pines of rome on here booted with cavallos and pads for turnout for quite some time.
 
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