Photo's of Ellie, reported to the RSPCA

pastie2 said:
I concider that the horse is failing, she is old, and the time has come to make the most heart wrenching decision that eventually comes to us all. Please realise that the time has come. Its late june and she will never ever look any better than she does now.
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And you know this for sure - how? Maybe a tweak to her diet is all that is required. There is no reason why this can't be attempted.
 
She does look a bit poor. I might have reported her if I'd seen no improvement over a few weeks.

You said she gets sugar beet- how much? I'd soak a big bucket for her and let her munch on it all day. It's a good food for putting weight on. It's mostly fibre, so she can have as much of it as she'll eat without causing problems. You could also add some grass/hay pellets to the soaked mush if you can find them.

Maybe add a small amount of soaked barley to her diet too?
 
Not a chance.

I see a horse whose coat is good, who is thin but obviously old, and who is clearly eating. I might have watched her for a few days, but no, at first glance, I wouldn't have reported her.

We have a 33-year-old who is thinner than that and whose suspensories are parallel to the ground (the vet just shakes her head at them), but he totters about the field with his old ladies, eats his huge buckets of sloppy feed, gets the dentist,his shots and everything, and is good for at least this summer.

Every autumn we get the vet to assess him and tell us if we are being cruel by keeping him going, but his attitude is so good that so far, she thinks he should still be with us.

We were reported to the Humane Society too, and they investigated us and just laughed it off. They have far more serious cases to follow up on. It turned out to be a vindictive ex-boarder in our case.

Good luck with Ellie.
 
Poor you and poor Ellie! Many big hugs and polos!

Now whilst she does have fairly significant muscle wastage to her topline, I have seen horses in much poorer condition with less actual body fat. The one thing I do immediately notice is that she has what I would describe as an empty belly. The rear area of her barrel and under her hip bones are sunken in which would indicate that the actual quantity of food bulk in her system is too low (this is regardless of her body condition). You say she has ad lib haylage available but if she is in with your other horses can you actually be sure how much of it she is eating? If haylage is required I presume you have a lack of grass. The absolute best solution for weight gain in the absence of a predisposition to laminitis is as much grass that you can throw at her! My old girl was in the haylage field for 4 weeks and she now looks great for it! To be honest that amount of grass would probably have killed most horses!!!

Back to the empty belly scenario. The horses digestive system is designed to principally digest fibre and when fibre intake is too low (could be inability to eat due to poor teeth or pain from arthritis in the jaw or just through inappetance) the balance of bacteria essential for digestion in the horse can be very seriously affected, often leaving the horse with a very limited ability to actually extract any significant amount of nutrition from all that feed you are giving her.

Therefore my suggestions for you to try if you wish are based on rebalancing her gut and ensuring that she is receiving enough fibre to keep her digestion working as efficiently as it is able.

A pro and prebiotic supplement, such as pink powder that has already been mentioned at the highest recemmended initial dose will help to address any bacterial imbalance there may be. Providing her with a selection of high energy fibrous feeds will hopefully promote her interest and intake levels. Products such as high fibre cubes, alfalfa chaffs, grass chaffs, grass nuts, rice bran (equi-jewel I think), copra meal (coconut meal), high oil supplements such as baileys outshine - I'm sure there are many more such things on the market but those are a few to think about. Also have a look at Bailey's Endurance mix as a hard feed - its a great conditioning feed although that is not what its actually marketed as.

I would also suggest trying her on a sachet of bute a day if she's not already on it. My old girl has a considerably lower food intake level without it. This could be due to pain specifically from arthritic changes in her TMJ (jaw joint!) which my vet says he can feel or just generally improves her aches and pains overall so subsequently as she's happier, she eats more. She is nicely covered (maybe even chubby!!) at the moment at 616kg on the weigh tape. Before I got my head around the above, I was pouring £25 worth of high starch feeds into her every week and she was 467kg at her worst. I was probably making the situation worse and assaulting my bank balance!!

I wish you the very best for your beautiful girl and hope that you have maybe been able to get some help from my suggestions.

Oh and cover her slender frame with a fly rug to keep the interfering (although undoubtedly well meaning) public at bay!!
 
brighteyes said:
Anyone remember Boodle on here? And the truly heartbreaking decline of her beloved Trixie? She did everything in her power for Trix (who was slowly fading away) and regularly posted pictures *lots* and asked for advice. She knew, and we knew, that it was getting close to Trixie's 'time' and had Trixie not made the call herself, Boodle was facing up to her responsibilities as every great horse owner does.

I take my hat off to you for braving the forum's responses. I do not condemn you. While she is relatively happy, eating and managing the day to day things important to her without too much effort, then let her be.

I look at it this way - the people who called in on her behalf, were checking to make sure someone was looking after her. And you are. So that's OK. Are horses not allowed retirement and a few years mooching about for fear the 'ribs police' will strike? She may well be healthier than these lardy creatures waddling about in fields and the showring. Let's face it - she has got to 28! I wish you and her a lovely summer. She'll let you know if and when she's had enough and you will do right by her. I have no worries on that score.

Chin up x
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I was trying to remember the forum member's name. Trixie was far older and (no offence Boodle if you're reading) thinner than Ellie, but she was a happy pony who enjoyed mooching round fields and going for walks, just being loved. She lived to a ripe old age.

ME: you clearly love her to bits, and no-one should have any concern for her welfare.
get a good night's sleep and do what is right for Ellie, not what others say. She's happy, she's alert and you've the whole summer ahead of you. xxx
 
Gosh, what a diverse range of replies.
Personally, I do think she looks poor, but she's an old girl... she's allowed to let herself go a little :)
I think, personally, when you said that she is still happy in herself, that was the answer. Until she starts letting you know that she no longer wants to be here, if you can and want to keep her here, do so!!

There's lots of great advice on here and I'm sure you'll agree you owe it to both you and her to give a few things a try. If your vet is happy, you are happy and she is happy, surely they are the most important opinions that matter??!
 
pastie2 said:
I concider that the horse is failing, she is old, and the time has come to make the most heart wrenching decision that eventually comes to us all. Please realise that the time has come. Its late june and she will never ever look any better than she does now.
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You see I am going to put my neck on the line here and disagree. If this horse is happy within herself and what I mean is shows a good quality of enjoying life then why should she be put down because she looks thinner than is accepted? (Has anyone ever seen how humans age?) I have a friend with a pony who is almost 40 years old, looks similiar, gets well fed as does this horse and all her needs catered to. She is still fit enough to withstand the horrendous Winter we have just had with good care, is as bright as a button, still wants to tease the geldings and is thoroughly enjoying life with a spring in her step. My friend has even had the vet give their opinion, and their opinion is that they would not want her to be much thinner but as she is enjoying life and is cared for then they are fine with that.

I don't think an elderly horse needs to be put down because it can't carry the same weight it used to when it was younger. There are ways and means to catering for elderly horses. As long as they are happy to be alive, are not becoming skeletal due to ailments and are still displaying a healthy attitude to life, food and things in general then I see no just cause to say, 'put it to sleep'.
 
She does look underweight so I can understand why some people would ring RSPCA or other animal welfare society. Presume the person who rang doesn't know you or your horse amd I suppose they were thinking better to be safe than sorry particularly, with the Jamie case still fresh in peoples minds.

You've nothing to hide, you are taking good care of her and that will be evident to the RSPCA.

She's a grand age - bless her :)
 
It sounds like you are doing everything you can to keep her well and happy so well done.I think you've had some honest comments and good advice so far, especially on feeding.
Now.....I'm sure i'll get jumped on by someone for this but here goes..... I think part of the problem is the cushing coat, which will also be quite hot for her this time of year. We used to have one a bit like her and in the end we ended up clipping her out in summer and it did make her look alot healthier and more comfortable - it might help the appearance for the passer by as an added bonus?

Disclaimer: I am not suggested health problems should be covered up to be ignored by strategic grooming, just feel this might make MEs life easier from the POV of outside interference.
 
Hi Mrs Elle

Well I've seen worse. But she is old. The grass around her looks rather sparse or is it just near the gate? Have you tried Bailey No4 Topline cube? I have no doubt you have and always will do the best for Ellie. Good luck
 
Persephone said:
If I didn't know the background, then yes I would have reported her.

Even a horsey person would look at her and think, she needs three feeds a day and maybe her teeth done.

You are doing the best you can for her Mrs Elle, which is great, but unfortunately that's not always bery obviousl when our horses become elderly.

I think it was a fair reporting.
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I completely agree with what Percy has said. :(

Sorry, Mrs Elle, but she does look incredibly poor, and without any knowledge, if I saw her, then I would be concerned for her welfare.

I hope that you can find a diet that helps her. Best wishes for you both. xxxx
 
Personally, if I saw her in the field, yes D: But that's without knowing her age or situation, just if I was driving past and saw her out the car window, I would probably give them a ring.

Butt, I've never had any elderly horses apart from natives, and they're good doers anyway, so I wouldn't know what diet to recommend. One of my boys was a rescue, and severly malnourished, and Alfa A worked wonders for his condition, without making him too wild! And oil, I guess, is always good for weight.
 
Mrs Elle , you say in the post in soapbox that she has "a bit of lameness". If she isn't on bute already it might be worth putting her on it, if she is comfier she may put on weight too. My oldie was on a low dose of bute for a long time, my vet said long term damage wasn't an issue , more important to keep her happy for the time she had left. She actually kept going far longer than we anticipated with no problems at all.
 
She does look quite poor at the moment but we all know from your posts that you are a caring and committed horse owner and I'm sure you'll take on board some of the suggestions re alternative feeds to try.
 
LittleSoph said:
Gosh, what a diverse range of replies.
Personally, I do think she looks poor, but she's an old girl... she's allowed to let herself go a little :)
I think, personally, when you said that she is still happy in herself, that was the answer. Until she starts letting you know that she no longer wants to be here, if you can and want to keep her here, do so!!

There's lots of great advice on here and I'm sure you'll agree you owe it to both you and her to give a few things a try. If your vet is happy, you are happy and she is happy, surely they are the most important opinions that matter??!
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My thoughts exactly:D
 
Sorry Mrs Elle, I do think she looks poor and I can see why a passer-by with little horse knowledge, or a more knowledgeable passerby with no idea of the horse's history might feel the need to report to the RSPCA. I know of other oldies who have been reported. Of course as soon as the Inspector hears the age, the frequency of vet visits etc, he goes away again saying ' you are doing as much as you can'. I would be most worried about the poor backend and obvious discomfort that this horse is in. Is she on bute? Or have you tried magnet boots? I can recommend both for arthritic horses.
Our oldie, who used to be a very good doer, lost weight as soon as she went out 24/7, this year. She refused to eat any supplementary feed and we were quite worried about her. She has now picked up again and is eating grassnuts again. We find that these are very good at putting/keeping weight on (but not if they're left in the bucket, lol).
We have been told that her heart is not good, so we, too, are thinking that we probably won't take her into the winter. We will have a last chat with the vet at flu/tet booster time in Aug and make the decision then. We have had her a very long time and she has been brilliant. She owes us absolutely nothing and we owe her a dignified end, while she is still relatively well.
 
ive seen a lot worse, yes shes thin, but she looks *old* NOT abused or neglected. Shes obviously well cared for - her feet have been seen to and shes obviously had a groom recently. I agree she looks 'tucked up' and i think there have been some brilliant and very throughful replies on this thead as per feeding recommendations.


i do concede that a general Joe Bloggs probably wouldnt know the difference though.

MsE its obvious how much you care. Full credit to you for doing all you can for this mare. xx
 
I have to say that i probably would have been concerned if i didnt know her history.
It seems that as a member of the public, you are damned if you do, and damned if you dont. I hope with a true case of neglect, there is someone to contact the RSPCA.

Just a side thought, could you tidy her up a little, ie pull her mane etc, she may look a little less like shes just been thrown in a field.

If this has been said already, then pls ignore, i dont have enough dedication to HHO to read 8 pages. lol
 
I'm afraid I'd agree with most others - I'd be seriously concerned if this were my horse. Has she been like this long? My veteran (22 yrs old I think) has only this year come out of the winter (albeit very bad winter) looking very "hippy" and too slim. Cant see his ribs at all, but he's definately not as good condition as usual. I've been depserately trying to fatten him up a bit now before the winter, difficult when he's cushings as have to watch what he eats though - he cant get any of the "senior" type feeds. Have you had yours tested for cushings?? Might be worth doing so.
 
I think I would agree with the majority on this one and say yes she does look poor but no I probably wouldn't have jumped to calling the RSPCA as i would have tried to find out a bit more about her first. However, it can be very hard as an outsider to approach a horse owner and draw attention to things like this as it can be taken wrong, cause upset and confrontation so maybe whoever did this was just considering your horse's welfare.

I would be concerned she seems to be hanging on to a fair bit of coat to be honest as she should have shed this by now. We have a 26 yo TB who came out of winter a bit thinner than usual and seems to have taken longer to pick up but he is very glossy in his coat, has lost all his winter coat and is very perky and eating well.

I would maybe reconsider what feed you are giving her. Fast fiber (soaked) is supposed to be brilliant at putting weight on. Years ago when we had oldies (one lived til 36 one, well god knows how old he was) we fed them a mixture of high fibre and stud cubes which really kept the weight on. Allen & Page also do an Old Faithful mix which we did feed our TB before this last winter and will probably put him on again this winter as he did so well on it and LOVED it!!!

I wish you luck. We had one in a por state many years ago and we too had the vet check him regularly as we thought maybe it was 'time' for him but the vet checked his vitals and they were all fine and he told us as long as the pony was still alert and happy and eating then we were best to keep going as we were. We knew he wasn't suffering but eventually it did come to be his time, his whole demeanor changed and we knew he'd just had enough. I think the sign on the gate may be useful and stop any further RSPCA calls!
 
Sorry but I agree with the others, not knowing the history of the horse I would be concerned, I have a 28 year old gelding and he looks a picture of health, hes on nothing but grass at the moment. Hope you sort your mare out. Good luck
 
If she were mine this would be her last summer. I couldn't go in to a winter with a horse that thin and on that much food. By all means change her diet, see what you can do, but remember, its better a day to early than a day too late.
 
My old horse was much much thinner after an illness. Fortunately he was a good doer and got his weight back on with veteran plus, equijewel (which I think someone else has mentioned), sugar beet and ad lib hay/grass. I think quite often it can be a case of finding what works for a particular horse.

Fortunately the yard was not near a road and everyone at the yard knew his history as I am sure we would have been reported every day he was that thin. If you are not the best thing to do is probably to have a chat with your vet and see what they suggest or think. Good luck with your horse.
 
Hi, I'm probably teaching Grandmother to suck eggs, but have you had Ellie's back checked by a back specialist? I have found that it's impossible to put weight on horses of any age if their backs are out, and your mare's weak back end make me wonder if she has damage in the lumbar region: it wouldn't cost a fortune to check it and it might make all the difference!
I sincerely feel for you and I know you are doing your best - keep your chin up !
 
i think i would probably have a squint at her feet, and have a nose round to see if there was water IE is this horse being looked after and checked regularly.if close by i would give it 2/3 days and look out for signs of feeding and maybe try and catch you and have a chat. if it was too far to double check (ie i saw her on the way back from a show) then yes, im afraid id report her.

have you tried linseed, charnwood milling linseed has put a huge amount of condition on my 2 ex racers,its easy to feed and digest and you dont need to make up huge feeds to get a lot of calories down them with it. worth a shot id think????

big hugs, sounds like you are trying your heart out for her xxx
 
So someone reported you. In their eyes there was justification. You appear to have satisfied the RSPCA that she is being cared for to the best of your ability. Put this episode behind you.

You know Ellie is getting the best care you can give. You know Ellie. You say she is happy and content. She is not a hat rack. You still have time to prepare yourself and her for the winter ahead. With the advice of others on here perhaps her feeding regime can change and she will pick up. Perhaps not. Don't make any decisions just yet.

Enjoy Ellie and let her enjoy you. You will know, without any influence from anybody, when the time is right to say goodbye and at the moment it doesn't sound like that time is now.

Wishing you and Ellie and Chad many happy hours spent together xxx Oh, and not forgetting Blue! xxx
 
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