Physio, chiro or both?

[MarvelVillis]

I have the physio out for my gelding every 6 months, but I have been wondering if I should also be getting the chiro out regularly as well, or do you only tend to need a chiro if something needs fixing (may be a stupid question!)? What do others do, have one/both regularly?

 

[Birker2020]

I have the physio out for my gelding every 6 months, but I have been wondering if I should also be getting the chiro out regularly as well, or do you only tend to need a chiro if something needs fixing (may be a stupid question!)? What do others do, have one/both regularly?

In general, chiropractors will focus more on the skeleton of the horse, stabilising and balancing it so that the rest of the body works well around it.

Physiotherapists within the veterinary field can better help deal with the soft tissue of the horse, creating programs that will help rehabilitate it over time.

 

[MarvelVillis]

So it sounds like it would be beneficial to have regular chiro sessions as well as the physio?

 

[Starzaan]

Helloo, professional rehab yard owner here.
My personal horses have physio once a month from birth to the day they die. I would recommend going for more regular physio if you can, and make sure it’s a veterinary physio too.
I would talk to your physio about chiropractors. There are some great ones, and a lot of cowboys. I have had a fair few horses come in having been injured by chiropractors, so I would be very wary. I only have one chiropractor I will allow on my yard, and she is a veterinary chiropractor.

 

[scats]

Mine see the vet Chiro every 3-6 months.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

One of my horses has the physio every 6 weeks it makes such a difference to his way of going and his posture, I also do lots of stretches everyday with him to keep him supple.

My other horse doesn't seem to need it as much so I tend to get him done every 3 months unless I feel there is an issue.

I don't use chiropractors.

 

[AntiPuck]

I have started to alternate physio/massage every 3 months and chiro (McTimmony, which I think is a form of) in-between, as they do focus on different things and can really complement each other - as someone else said, soft tissue v.s skeletal or structural issues - and both give valuable "prehab" plans which are slightly different in focus

 

[Tiddlypom]

Mine see the vet Chiro every 3-6 months.

Same here. She covers all the bases, plus as a qualified vet she can diagnose, which neither a non vet chiropractor or a physio can do. She's not cheap, but it still works out cheaper than having an osteo plus a physio out, which is what I used to do. And she's better than either. Not that they were rubbish, but the step up in the quality of treatment is remarkable.

 

[Fieldlife]

My horse has chiropractor every three months, sports massage every three months, physio every three months.

I think they all complement each other.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don’t do chiropractors for myself one too many bad experience so for horses where there’s even less regulation I would not consider it unless the person it was a vet who happened to be a chiropractor as well

 

[Birker2020]

I don’t do chiropractors for myself one too many bad experience so for horses where there’s even less regulation I would not consider it unless the person it was a vet who happened to be a chiropractor as well

I agree. My experience of a chiropractor wasn't great.

Having had a popular McTimoney Chiropractor in our area look at my wobblers horse who was swinging his outside leg dramatically outwards when turned on a tight circle and who looked as p***ed as a f*rt when walked they still didn't think to diagnose wobblers. I had them out twice to him.

It was only my incessant googling of his symptoms that I made them see it might be something other than EHV which is what the vet thought it was and sure enough he was sadly diagnosed as having untreatable wobblers/CVM and was pts at hospital.

I'd really be hesitant to use one again. I was going to use the one that is offered recommended on here for Lari but my vet didn't rate him at all so I didn't.

 

[Goldenstar]

I agree. My experience of a chiropractor wasn't great.

Having had a popular McTimoney Chiropractor in our area look at my wobblers horse who was swinging his outside leg dramatically outwards when turned on a tight circle and who looked as p***ed as a f*rt when walked they still didn't think to diagnose wobblers. I had them out twice to him.

It was only my incessant googling of his symptoms that I made them see it might be something other than EHV which is what the vet thought it was and sure enough he was sadly diagnosed as having untreatable wobblers/CVM and was pts at hospital.

I'd really be hesitant to use one again. I was going to use the one that is offered recommended on here for Lari but my vet didn't rate him at all so I didn't.

A chiropractor can’t diagnose anything it is unlawful unless they are a vet as well.
Owners must not expect that sort of advice from complimentary therapists they can only do what they do.
A much bigger problem is people making diagnosis or ruling things out when they simply can’t do so . Its a cause of considerable suffering IME.

 

[Birker2020]

A chiropractor can’t diagnose anything it is unlawful unless they are a vet as well.
Owners must not expect that sort of advice from complimentary therapists they can only do what they do.
A much bigger problem is people making diagnosis or ruling things out when they simply can’t do so . Its a cause of considerable suffering IME.

So your telling me that if a chiropractor thinks a horse might have wobblers syndrome or is ataxic and has a stiff neck and therefore believe it might have compression in the vertebrae they are not permitted to say this to the owner??

In the very least they should have told me to speak to my vet if they had any suspicions.

I was under the impression that they worked under veterinary consent or referral both of which applied to my horse.

 

[Goldenstar]

They can say I am really worried that this may have some kind of neurological problem and my advice is that you consult a vet at once even that is more than some think is ok.

You have no way of knowing if they have been trained to spot this type of issue. I would not expect them to know more than I did when it came to that sort of thing .

 

[Birker2020]

They can say I am really worried that this may have some kind of neurological problem and my advice is that you consult a vet at once even that is more than some think is ok.

You have no way of knowing if they have been trained to spot this type of issue. I would not expect them to know more than I did when it came to that sort of thing .

Well that's rather like saying that a doctor wouldn't recognise a broken leg because he's not an orthopedic surgeon.
But whatever.

 

[TPO]

Well that's rather like saying that a doctor wouldn't recognise a broken leg because he's not an orthopedic surgeon.
But whatever.

No it's not.

For the benefit of others who may read this thread it is illegal for anyone to diagnose any animal other than a vet.

Of course therapists can advise the owner to contact a vet but thats as far as their "power" goes. Why anyone would get a physio/chiro out before a vet to a horse presenting as described is beyond me.

 

[sjdress]

I use a chiro every 3 months or so. I’ve always noticed a big difference after my horse has been treated, but no difference from a few physios that I have used. Same for myself. Physio was useless, chiropractor sorted me out.

 

[ycbm]

A much bigger problem is {physios/osteos/chiros} ruling things out when they simply can’t do so . Its a cause of considerable suffering IME.

I have experienced this twice and seen it happen to others. It's a huge problem, and one where I am now reluctant to use a bodyworker at all. My history with them is that they either worry me when there is no cause or reassure me when the horse actually needs a vet.
.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I have a McTimoney chiropractor every 6 months and a veterinary physiotherapist somewhere between every 2-6 months to my gelding (more often in Summer simply as he does more/longer distances) or sooner if he does anything silly! I find them both compliment each other & like the fact two professionals see and feel him regularly.

Neither have ever diagnosed anything as outside of their remit but have said 'You probably want a vet to look at X, it doesn't seem quite right' or to 'keep an eye on Y and contact vet if any more concerns'.I know my physiotherapist a little better so they sometimes then add something caveated like 'I can't diagnose anything but generally speaking when I've often seen X, it can be Y or associated to Z'

 

[LegOn]

Osteo! Biomechanically found it more beneficial with a bigger performance difference in my horse, and me!

I've yet to find a good physio that doesn't leave my horse sore afterwards... same for myself if I'm honest. (I'm not the UK, we have different legislation in Ireland on physios). I have used McTimmony Chiro which I thought was really good too, same practitioner does riders aswell, I like to know what my horse is experiencing!

I've also had great success with Amutsu therapy, again both me & horse feeling fantastic afterward!

 

[SEL]

A good soft tissue therapist should be able to release any muscle spasms that might be leading to wonkiness in the horse. There are a couple of chiros I like and both of them do soft tissue work before any limb manipulations.

Absolutely not allowed to diagnose and one of the local chiros I won't use is forever diagnosing tendon issues, spinal issues etc etc. By all means point out to the owner swelling, lameness and other areas of concerns - in fact they shouldn't be continuing with the treatment if they have concerns.

What they should be saying is 'I am concerned about X and would like your horse seen by a vet before I do any therapy with it, please feel free to give my details to the vet and I am happy to discuss it with them directly'

 

[Goldenstar]

Well that's rather like saying that a doctor wouldn't recognise a broken leg because he's not an orthopedic surgeon.
But whatever.

No it’s nothing like that it’s like saying that the lady who gives you a massage can diagnose a condition.
There is no comparsion what so ever between and doctor and these type of practitioners.

 

[Fieldlife]

A good soft tissue therapist should be able to release any muscle spasms that might be leading to wonkiness in the horse. There are a couple of chiros I like and both of them do soft tissue work before any limb manipulations.

Absolutely not allowed to diagnose and one of the local chiros I won't use is forever diagnosing tendon issues, spinal issues etc etc. By all means point out to the owner swelling, lameness and other areas of concerns - in fact they shouldn't be continuing with the treatment if they have concerns.

What they should be saying is 'I am concerned about X and would like your horse seen by a vet before I do any therapy with it, please feel free to give my details to the vet and I am happy to discuss it with them directly'

Yes, I dont think any bodyworker is allowed to treat a lame horse. Lame horse / horse presenting issue need to be referred to vet. All the bodyworkers treating my horse need formal permission from the vet, before treating for their insurance to be valid.

I work in close contact between my trainers, my physio, my chiropractor, sports massage therapist and vet. The ideal is to have a wholistic team feeding information in and working together. As well as saddler and farrier. All are credible equestrian professionals in their own right, who I have not chosen lightly.

The older I have got, the more obvious it is not simple and there are lots of shades of grey, and there is no one professional that has the whole picture. e.g. a farrier can make a horse unlevel, or fix a foot balance issue causing unlevelness. It is not as simple as all unlevel horses need the vet etc.

If dealing with a performance issue, I value the input of the whole team of professionals working on my horse. And expect my vet to do his own diagnosis, whilst taking account of the input from others. e.g. if physio said last two times seen horse has been sore in glutes etc. I'd expect my vet to use this information in building a picture. If farrier says horse is dubbing toes more the last few shoeings, I'd expect vet to take that on board etc.

There are always bodyworkers, and bodyworkers. Lots of people can get the qualification. Some are really good at what they do and really add value. Some are not. The good people can be amazing, no smoke or mirrors, just significant different how horse moves before and after.

 

[Fieldlife]

I have the physio out for my gelding every 6 months, but I have been wondering if I should also be getting the chiro out regularly as well, or do you only tend to need a chiro if something needs fixing (may be a stupid question!)? What do others do, have one/both regularly?

In answer to the question. Do you see a benefit afterwards to the physio treating your horse? Does he move / go better afterwards? Do you have a recommendation of a good chiropractor? A vet chiropractor or one that you have a good recommendation on e.g. from your trainer / saddler etc. If can find a good one, that checks out, I would try one treatment and see if you notice a benefit or not.

I do think a chiro and a physio have different approaches. But equally depends on the workload challenges, and the physical state of your horse. If all is well and no concerns. I am not sure I would add additional checks, unless you think there is room for improvement or issues to monitor.

 

[Orangehorse]

My horse has had regular physio for years. Recently he developed a problem which the physio didn't think they could do anything about, so I contacted the vet about the problem and it was decided to get a chiropractor - whose treatment and in hand exercise plan has cured what was wrong.

I continue to use the physio for routine maintenance because there is a difference.

But I have used various bodyworker type people for many years with mixed results. And another friend said that some seem to have their "pet theory" for what is wrong.

 

[rara007]

ACPAT (think that’s the letters!) physio only.

 

[Birker2020]

ACPAT (think that’s the letters!) physio only.

Yes that's right, my physio is registered under that.

 

[sbloom]

I think it entirely depends on the individual, I recommend people from all sorts of bodywork disciplines. Some of my favourite bodyworkers started out as massage therapists but added a ton of modalities over the years, this coupled with experience and a view that takes in movement patterns, and talks about patterns, compensations etc and how to improve them...rather than finding tight and sore bits, "fixing" them, and giving a few carrot stretches.

ACPAT physios trained to treat humans first, then went onto horses, vet physios do not and start with a specialised equine (probably small animal too) qualification. Not always the biggest fans of each other!

 

[Birker2020]

The vet physio I use is registered under IRVAP (The Institute for registered Veterinary and Animal Physiotherapists).

 

[Birker2020]

My physio uses a number of different techniques and equipment including heat therapy which is suitable for arthritic patients.

Cryotherapy for orthopaedic post op cases or where oedema is present and pulsed magnetic field therapy which incorporates dynamic magnets which alter the bodies cells within the tissue restoring them. Pulsed mag therapy has demonstrated excellent healing properties with fracture and bone repairs, pain management, nerve regeneration and inflammation reduction.

She also uses phototherapy which allows energy from the light into the tissue structures which in turn creates an alteration within the tissue cells. Blue is used for its antibacterial properties within wound management. Red phototherapy is used also for wound management, soft tissue injuries and as a muscle relaxant prior to manual therapy techniques.

My own horse was treated with therapeutic ultrasound for a check ligament injury which healed in an incredible 3 months following a scan which showed a hole in the ligament. It was used in conjunction with ice therapy using IceVibe boots and ice cupping. Therapeutic ultrasound works by applying sound waves to an area which in turn increases circulation, extensibility. This is extremely beneficial in conjunction with cryotherapy for an improved quality of heal in tendon and ligament injuries.

My physio also uses neuromuscular electro stimulators which apply small electrical currents to tissue. This is beneficial for building muscle mass, pain management and nerve regeneration.

Hydrotherapy is also very useful, it allows the body to be used correctly without putting unnecessary stresses on the joints and tendons. Its also very useful for weight management.

And of course manual manipulation techniques which help with tissue repair and improved circulation.

She also recommends passive and active exercise programmes to improve circulation, prevent adhesions and to encourage pre-injury mobility, things like ground work exercises and stretching which you do with your horse in your own time which can help to produce a better outcome.

She is an amazing physio and we are very lucky to have her, she helped Bailey and Lari no end.