pics + a vid - CS working today:

Im afraid im with DC on this, quite often CS looks tense, has his jaw and poll set and does not looked relaxed and soft in his outline. If you look at pictures of say FB's Frodo and Rauti they are both in my opinion happy horses who are relaxed and soft in their work.

Its not that people are picking faults with PS (or CS) its simply other peoples opinions which we are all entitled too.

Im also with DC in that i do worry that you are pushing him too much PS, he might be talented but hes only 6 years old, theres no need to hurry him especially when he has tension issues as it is. You obviously do very well competing in your area however your marks (IMO) are quite low and if I was in the same situation as you I would personally be striving for 67/68% at Medium before moving up to Adv Med and so on. But thats my personal opinion and I dont believe in rushing horses up the levels before they are happily scoring decent consistant marks at the level below.

Am sure im going to get shouted down and abused, do crack on everyone - I hardly come on here any more so probably wont read the abuse that gets thrown back at me anyway!!

Id like to add that obviously CS is super talented and PS has done really well with him and obviously manages to cope very well with his tantrums that he throws.
 
lmao! this thread has got me so confused! even the simplest things can develop into an argument round here :D what does it matter really? The horse is beautiful and looks to be performing well but I think all arguments are valid, people just get a bit carried away. I'm not sitting on the fence or anything ;)
 
these are a further 3 pics from the same session.
i can quite assure you the horse is neither set, nor tense-he fairly trampolined me round tonight with his little ears pricked so hard they met in the middle bless him, with not a tantrum or deep leap in sight.

i dont think you can say this horse doesnt look happy:
p2.jpg


relaxed neck?
p4.jpg


looks happy enough in his face/eye to me?
p1.jpg


tempi- i do find your post a bit contradictory TBH. I dont think its fair to drag another forum member in to this, and im not snide enough to go looking or bring up old posts, but i bet any money i can find pics of those horses looking momentarily tense, or in fact of virtually any horse looking peed off for a moment.
 
I'm impressed you can all tell so much from a photo, your powers of deduction must be amazing......;) From my knowledge of Fran and her horses she always works hard on suppleness and relaxation but insists on a good work ethic and works hard which is why she gets good results. From my knowledge of Star he has always had these moments, IMO like all horses do, pushing the boundaries.

Fran he's looking great, Ali and I looked at your latest set of pics and went "wow".
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
the episodes are not new, are lesser in frequency and er intensity(!)

there are *yes* horses and *maybe* horses, CS is a *maybe* horse-he has to check how much i want it, each and every day, and thats fine with me because it doesnt bother me in the slightest and i couldnt afford a *yes* horse with GP potential.
Click to expand...

Mine is a *mayb*e horse too, he test's the water most days (odd occasion where he just can't be bothered and works fluently from the onset) to see if I am with him. Definitely gives in after the first few attempts.
Your boy wouldn't be as talented as he is if he didn't have some kind of spart there and I've seen him for a few years now and he's a saint compared to when I first ever saw you and him together.

I think he looks the perfect package of 'super dooper' achievement from a very good and devoted rider and a highly talented horse.
Don't fix what's not broken and if all is well which it is in your case, go for it and reach the level you want to, in the best time you feel right for both you and him.
Just because he is sailing up the levels doesn't mean he is being pushed, I think it just means he's a talanted horse who loves the job he's doing right now :D
 
PS please continue to post your photos, i for one always enjoy reading yours and your sisters posts. I love the photos and I thank you for being so honest about the 'highs' and 'lows' of horses.

I fully admit that i am an amateur and will therefore probably have my opinion disregarded but i thought i would just flip it on its head for a second:

1) a happy horse is at grass stuffing his face....im not saying they don't enjoy their work but we have to accept that a horse is never going to be truely happy working.

2) CS is only 6yrs old, of course he will have moments...thats the joys of young horses. I am fortunate to have a very genuine 5 yr old but occassionally the devil horns come out and i have to wedge myself into the saddle.

3) competitive dressage is what it is and we aspire to be at the top, we may need to do things differently to what we would if we just training for trainng's sake.
 
Loving the pics! I only hope that one day Row will go like this!
And just have to say, I think his neck is like body building for horses- look at that muscle!!! Should look at it when learning the muscles of the horse at uni :)
 
Gotta love how PS's threads always end in arguments :rolleyes:

PS - CS is looking amazing as usual. I didn't actually realise he was only 6, that horse is going to go a long way!

I understand why you come across all defensive because you do often get a bit of a slating on here, particularly about the hat. However, I will say that DC does raise a perfectly valid point about how advanced he is at his age. I get the feeling that CS is a horse that likes and needs to be challenged because he is a clever boy so I understand why he is progressing so quickly. However you know your horse, maybe it's just a thing to bear in mind.
 
Tempi said:
Im afraid im with DC on this, quite often CS looks tense, has his jaw and poll set and does not looked relaxed and soft in his outline. If you look at pictures of say FB's Frodo and Rauti they are both in my opinion happy horses who are relaxed and soft in their work.

Its not that people are picking faults with PS (or CS) its simply other peoples opinions which we are all entitled too.

Im also with DC in that i do worry that you are pushing him too much PS, he might be talented but hes only 6 years old, theres no need to hurry him especially when he has tension issues as it is. You obviously do very well competing in your area however your marks (IMO) are quite low and if I was in the same situation as you I would personally be striving for 67/68% at Medium before moving up to Adv Med and so on. But thats my personal opinion and I dont believe in rushing horses up the levels before they are happily scoring decent consistant marks at the level below.

Am sure im going to get shouted down and abused, do crack on everyone - I hardly come on here any more so probably wont read the abuse that gets thrown back at me anyway!!

Id like to add that obviously CS is super talented and PS has done really well with him and obviously manages to cope very well with his tantrums that he throws.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^
Best reply on here, totally agree.
 
Also agree with the people who Have said consider slowing down. Of course you have done Well with him but his naughtiness tells you he is not coping with What is being asked
To say That he doesn't do it a lot is simply not true, many reports/pics you put up tell of similar episodes.
With regards to commenting on the neck, although the horse is out to the contact, the muscle defination doesn't scream relaxed to me.
You Also seem to Have to almost create the bend in the half pass by crossing your inside hand across neck showing That the suppleness and relaxation to peform the movement is not yet there.
what marks and comments do You get for the lateral moves and changes? This of course should be your guide.
I would also look at sticking to the snaffle until he is totally confident and happy in all his work as the double will enhance and lack of forwardness.
I have Just sold a Very talented and balanced ex racer and the temptation to over push has been there but he soon told me, in a similar way to yours, That although the potential is there, the physical and mental ability was not yet. I backed off and the happy althlete returned.
At six, he has years to be a world beater. Better to give him the time he needs to be the potential superstar he could be.
 
I don't post much. I'm a bit of a lurker but there are two sorts of people on this forum:

1. The followers, mainly young girls/ladies in ore or someone else's prettystunning/talanted horse. They make it known their horse will never be as good and they won't ever ride as well as the said pretty horse and it's rider

2. The professional/far more experienced horse owners who read the threads, comment very little but would love to write what they think but most of the time they don't just for peace. When they do they are bombarded with 'critique' from all the girlie/ladies who follow the pretty horses/popular thread posters.

:D
 
I am not getting into the discussion but there was a comment earlier about the double bridle and when it's "appropriate". To anyone out there in tv land (foreigner joke ;) ), the 6 year olds at things like the Bundeschampionships and the World Championships for Young Horse, go in snaffles. And they are, even in the estimation of the very experienced people who produce them, proper prodigal freaks, well ahead of most of their contemporaries.

Anyway, nothing to do with PS or her choices or anything else - not my business. Just a point for anyone out there thinking their horse *should* be doing this or that.

Carry on. :)
 
Sebhorse- I find that quite a narrow minded and insulting view to be honest. I keep my replies on these threads short and supportive because of the likelihood that PS will be jumped on for something as I'm sure a lot of other people do. If I have anything to offer advice wise I save it for fb. I don't think you should be so quick to make judgements.

As to any horse that has the odd moment being pushed to far, one of my horses will have the odd moment. The other will sometimes become inattentive and spooky.

It is my job as the rider to asses why my horses do this and to bring the focus back to work and make it an enjoyable session.
How many of you have been there in the flesh when PS schools? How many see how she conducts her sessions?

PS has stressed that she only plays with more advanced moves to prepare him and suss his capabilities. Dont you think she would be jumped on if she hadnt spent time preparing him and building his strength and suddenly asked all of this of him when he was a lot older?

I know my instructor wouldn't allow me to push my horses too far too fast and I highly doubt PS's instructor would either. Let her enjoy her boy.
 
"I dont find your posts half as annoying and smug as your sisters"

actually?!as in, you actually thought it was appropriate and reasonable to bring that in to a totally seperate thread?!

i really dont think there is any point in bringing Nik in to this, except to try and throw another low blow, it doesnt really matter what you think CallyH because what i think of you after that cant be printed!

charlie76-im glad you definately know my horse better than me and can say for absolute sure what his "naughtiness" tells you ................i cant possible remember every single mark for the lateral work but he's had all 7 except one 6 for his changes, which i dont think is a bad track record at all.

its amazing how many people have such selective memories, because re the double-iv actually commented several times on past threads that the horse is more settled in his mouth and MORE FORWARD in the double, aka he's happier in the double, as i have found other ex-racers to be...perhaps its because its totally unlike any bit they encountered racing, who knows, but if the horse is obviously that much happier in it, taking a better contact, then so be in and he can stick with the double...............i havent had any negative comments on it from judges so clearly they are not seeing it as a problem.

also-yes he does throw these little flids on a regular basis i guess, but not half as regular as they were, and not half as determindly, iv said that several times too but its conviniently ignored that the horse is getting better not worse! i think iv commented on nearly every show report for the last 3 months that his attitude in the warm up is improving every time,even without his snuff(!) but that is obviously proof of nothing...................

finally,my little yard jockey has been riding him a bit recently, with the intention of going out to do some elems on him, if he was THAT brain fried, fixed in the contact, behind the leg, un-supple and unhappy.........................i doubt a slim nervous 15yo would get much of a tune out of him, but she does........ I guess the proof will be in the pudding though and you'll just have to wait for her show reports.

i post the bad pics as well as the good because people seem to have this unrealistic idea that its all lightness and joy every single session, or that it should be.................when in reality, anyone who has trained a number of horses will know that sometimes they throw something unexpected at you, and that some horses just are trickier than others..................training wise CS is the easiest horse ive had, iv not had to teach him much, just set it up and let him rock and roll................but RIDING wise, he wouldnt be everyones cup of tea and wouldnt every be described as a novice ride etc. id like to give hope to everyone else struggling with something a bit tricky or naughty, that it will be worth it.

shame on me for showing reality as it happens.
 
I have been following this thread with interest, as have being bitten by the dressage bug hard myself :P I think PS has done well to contain her temper on these threads, the horse is an absolute stunner, and I don't know about anyone else, but I will admit I am extremely jealous, yes, jealous that she has got such a tune out of him, I also have an ex racer who is like a wonky donkey and can only just about do a nice prelim when he feels like it.

You are obviously a talented rider. How long have u been dressage riding? Is he your only horse? (I havent seen many of your threads)

As far as the comment about his neck muscle not looking relaxed, he is a TB, and TB muscles are very defined, I don't think its an issue.

As for peoples reactions here, although they will deny it, maybe they are a bit jealous... I admitted I am!! But thats no reason to make the gal feel bad about her spectacular horse
 
My trainer is coming over tomorrow and if I ask her how her new horse is going and she replies ''well he's been a testing ride again'' shall I tell her to back off him? Tell her she's going to quickly and it's his way of telling her he's not ready?

He's 4yrs old, just been bought over from Germany and being prepared for the 5yr old classes next year.....Does she know what she's doing??

Of course she does! We all know horses are quirky animals and CS isn't objecting to his work, it's his character. My horse doesn't object to his work, he is spooky and sharp but again that's his character.

I understand everyone wanting to give their opinion, because after all that's all it is... their opinion. We all know what it's like on a busy livery yard (well some of us do) and the competitive'ness' that goes around and the bitchiness between riders of all levels, well sometimes it comes across like that on here but it's harder to word correctly/tactfully?
It does sometimes come across as jealousy whether it's meant to or not.

I certainly wish my horse was going as well as CS and although things are not right at the moment and whether it's with my current horse or another one, I too hope one day to ride at a higher level. In the mean time I can't wait to watch and support CS at his next competition. Both horse and rider have clearly worked hard and deserve to be where they are.
From what I've seen and heard PS rides very well, sympathetically, doesn't bully and is not an agressive rider reaching for the higer levels in a short space of time out of anything other than both being pretty talanted.
PS has some good trainers too and I'm sure they give her good advice that she listens too and lets face it at British Dressage I see the same names year after year doing the same level they did about two or three years back :)

My post is definitely not aimed at anyone and it's not a post to stick up for PS because she can do that for herself very well, I just wanted to to share my thoughts about yard gossip and how sometimes that posting here comes across like yard gossip :D :D

oh and just to end my post, how in the name of 'whoever' can someone tell from a photo whether the horse looks sad, happy, in pain, tortured, ruined, battered, loved or any other emotion we want to think of?
 
coreteam1 said:
We all know horses are quirky animals and CS isn't objecting to his work, it's his character.
Click to expand...

Well that's ok then, as long as it's in his character to look more tense and sucked back than he used to, and nothing to do with the questions being asked of him then we don't need to worry :rolleyes:

And yes, if people don't agree with PS and the way she is training her horse then it MUST be because of jealousy. What other reason could there possibly be. Sigh.

Horses that are pushed too far too young don't have long and happy careers. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak.
 
Saratoga said:
Well that's ok then, as long as it's in his character to look more tense and sucked back than he used to, and nothing to do with the questions being asked of him then we don't need to worry :rolleyes:

And yes, if people don't agree with PS and the way she is training her horse then it MUST be because of jealousy. What other reason could there possibly be. Sigh.

Horses that are pushed too far too young don't have long and happy careers. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak.
Click to expand...


A photo is a moment of suspension (in the camera not the horse) so we can't judge the horse's tension from merley looking at a photo of him. We can only judge and therefore truely comment if we actually saw him being ridden in 'real life'. I've seen him in real life and he is definitely nothing like he use to be. He was tense previously (he is an ex racer after all) but now much better, again it's a moment shown on film.

I certainly don't think anyone should be worried about what someone is doing with their horse on here, it's none of our business for a start and there is nothing going on that anyone should be worried about?
It does sometimes come across as jealousy though, I do think though that it's hard to write what you want to, without it being read incorrectly so to speak :)

I totally agree with ''proof in the pudding'' and lot's of horses get broken early on, however, how do we all know (on here) that CS really isn't the talanted horse he seems to be? How do we know he isn't going to storm through his next year and come out on top? We don't. So all we can do is watch. I don't mean people shouldn't comment and the first person Dressagecrazy was tactfull in the way she wrote her post, it was her opinion but then others come in and that's where sometimes it goes pear shaped :D
 
Last edited:
And yes, if people don't agree with PS and the way she is training her horse then it MUST be because of jealousy. What other reason could there possibly be. Sigh.

Horses that are pushed too far too young don't have long and happy careers. The proof will be in the pudding so to speak.[/QUOTE]

I never said everyone posting on here would be jealous, but I bet a few people are! I admitted honestly that I am!
It just bugs me that people carry the welfare of every horse in the world on their own shoulders. It is her horse, and if she ruins it, which I doubt she will, that is her prerogative.
 
hayleyshep88 said:
It just bugs me that people carry the welfare of every horse in the world on their own shoulders. It is her horse, and if she ruins it, which I doubt she will, that is her prerogative.
Click to expand...

Exactly! What has it got to do with us anyway, nothing.

It's the same on a big yard though, someone will comment on how many times ''such and such'' has ridden her horse over the jumps that week. How many times 'so and so' has been to the yard that week, or not. How many times 'so and so' has been in the school. It's no one's business. The horses welfare is not even in question here.
 
I'm sorry, I have to agree with Saratoga, PS often posts or post pictures of the horse being naughty/tense so it is quite a regular thing with the horse.
Also, if you only want people to put nice comments then make sure you put that in your post, if you don't want a few comments that you don't want to hear then don't put the pics/vids/posts on here!


As for jealousy! I am far from it, I have four of my own talented horses, I don't have time to be jealous!
 
I'm confused why at 6 years old CS is being pushed too hard yet I can think of 2 other HHO member's horses who are younger & seem to be working as hard if not harder but in Eventing.....
I think they are a brilliant set of photos & it's interesting to see the 'not as good' side.
I hate how PS threads always turn into a bashing about something....everyone cries 'we're not jealous, we're not jealous!' but then what *is* it that makes it ok to tear the bloody girl to bits every 5 minutes.

And I think everyone missed a very important point. This isn't some untouched, bred for the job warmblood this is a sharp ex-racehorse who has already learnt some behaviours from his previous life. PS has done a marvellous job with him & I think we should bloody applaud her not bitch & gripe at her.
 
you might not have time to be jealous but you have the time to tell someone else what to do with her horse.......
 
i watched a vid on horse hero last night , of Laura B working her 6yo................she commented something along the lines of "he's more prone to kicking at my leg on this rein"...........which to me sort of implies that he often kicks at her leg, and sure enough, later in the vid he does a good old sideways ninja kick that had it been captured in a series of stills, would look every bit as peed off as the pics of CS (and i gather the same horse did the same thing in the demo at the nationals..............)

im sure you would all be quick enough to cry that he must just be quirky/voicing his opinion on working for a living as clearly LB is going to know better than to push too hard, so what is it that makes it ok for her horse to let rip once or twice but not mine? (for the record, i think she's doing a fab job on an obviously not easy horse and he did not look at all tense or unhappy except when kicking).

Yes there are plenty of pics of CS throwing some shapes because i get 200/300 pics of each lesson and thus the little outburst is nearly always captuured on camera, and because they often look amusing-i do post them. I bet every poster here has pics of their horse lookign tense or peed off and just doesnt post them.

some horses go crooked, some snatch at the bit, some go behind the leg.....mine kicks and then spins, he then picks up where he left off and carries on......................its just a more obvious way of objecting.................if he was snatching at the bridle twice in a session would that somehow be more acceptable? Iv already said he learnt to do this racing/decided it was a good way of getting out of work whilst in race training, so he's unlikely to ever stop it completely, it will always be *his thing*.

Saratoga-i know that one of your horses used to be very heavy and very strong, perhaps that was his way of saying he was being pushed..................or perhaps he just needed to grow up and get on with it, and certainly you opted to push him though it and keep working.
your other horse is tense and spooky and also sometimes rears-is it his history comming back to haunt him or are you pushing him too hard? again, you have opted to push through it and keep working. (and in both scenarios where quite correct i think BTW)

so why then, when my horse tries to intimidate me in to letting him be a pasture puff, am i ripped to shreds for pushing him though and telling him to pull his socks up?!

I have no objection to CC,and as someone has said, DC's original posts were not a problem, but this is now some kind of witch hunt/ jumping on the bandwagon.

and for the 500th time..................the outbursts are smaller, and less frequent.....................do you not think that means the horse is getting more settled and thus that im quite possibly doing the right thing to push him though it?! or is that just being conviniently ignored?
 
Last edited:
So if I'm reading this correctly... unless a horse is an angel at all times, with no outbursts or resitances, then it's being pushed too hard and can't cope with the pressure? Well that's me screwed then, I guess I should retire my horse as he obviously can't cope with being worked at prelim level!

Prince33Sp4rkle said:
P1150965.jpg
Click to expand...

So this was after the first strop. Looks pretty good to me? Nice and relaxed; can't see the tension, personally... eye doesn't look hard... Can someone point out what you're all talking about?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top