pics + a vid - CS working today:

What a thread; took bloody ages to read through! So glad I didn't comment earlier (page 1 I think back then) asking where you stored all yours and your sister's matchy matchy, as would have been totally irrelevent :)
I couldn't care less whether he looks unhappy or happy (I think he looks a bit of both but I don't know any horse looking happy whilst having a strop), I'm still agog that he's only 6...could you come Yorkshire way and teach me?

I'm going to post my dressage to music video next Sunday/Monday - just back in work horse (possibly fat cob if JBIWH is still not up to it), doing walk and trot to "Pocketful of sunshine" - and I will be most offended if I don't get 18 pages of people telling me what's what.
 
Well, I've missed it all haven't I?! Have only just read this thread & most of the replies (got to page 16 & couldn't face reading the rest).
FWIW I have just a couple of things to add tho I admit to knowing about as much about competetive riding as I know about heart surgery;
1. Why doesn't every stop worrying about someone elses horse and get on with riding/caring for their own? Posting a comment is all well and good, it's an open forum after all, but I think it's gone waaaaaaaay too far. PS is hardly neglecting or bullying the horse and whether he is or isn't trying to tell her something is wrong what does that have to do with anyone but PS?! She's the one who will deal with it IF everything goes t*ts up!
2. In general I think PS's pictures are very nice and CS is clearly a stunning and very talented horse. I am very jealous but mainly of her boots! My legs would never look that good in a pair of those! ;):D
3. I admit that I haven't seen many of DC's and others posts but I really respect the opinion of Tempi when it comes to dressage - have you seen the pictures of her horses?! Stunning. So maybe she has a point? BUT again it's just her opinion and PS does not have to listen to it if she doesn't want to. No need to have a row about it.
4. CS is doing too much too soon? Possibly, possibly not. We have a very talented XC machine - he was BRC champion at 6 years old - did we rush him? Absoultely not, the horse jumps in & out of fields for fun and if he doesn't get the work he's very, very naughty. I realise I'm talking about XC and not dressage in this instance.
5. My horse can be naughty - not just for me but for my instructor (who produced 4* event horses through the lower levels so knows a thing or 2!) - I can say with absolute certainty that he's just being a toad, everything is checked regularly and I do not put him under too much pressure as I don't have the know how or the balls to be honest!

Come on people, we're all in the same boat, just to a lesser or greater extent! We're all riding huge animals with brains the size of a lemon at best! Let's face it we must all be bonkers :D:eek:
 
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I think what is going on here is very sad... OP has offered these pictures to the forum and it is up to other members how you view them, I know have taken them as inspiration as to what an ex racer is capable of. All the other ex race horse transformation posts have been praised in a very positive light (even for the smallest of accomplishments), people see these kinds of posts as an example of what COULD of been a horse on it's way to slaughter or a broken down youngster on the track with no quality of life what so ever. Please everyone look at the big picture, this is NOT a fancy warmblood with impeccable breeding lines and cost £££££'s!
IT IS AN EX RACE HORSE!
I think what PS has done here is really amazing and she should be so proud, not have to defend herself from other posters with no lifes. So what if he's tense, so what if it's hard for him! He is learning! Do you think every high level dressage horse has went through their hole career without ANY stress ? Whenever another horse on here has had a tantrum it has often been described as 'character' or 'spirit'.
I think the reality here is people are being negative because they have no where near the talent OP has to produce a horse to this level in such a short space of time.

Hands going back under bum for the remainder of this thread :)
 
Fwiw I think that some of the knowledgeable dressagey people have posted because they see them both as very talented and I think the aim of their posts was just to give their personal views on what might be causing the meltdowns. I think if she was average and going to be doing low level maybe people wouldn't have bothered to examine but would have just given the usual "pretty pony" response.
IMO the horse is much luckier than most ex racers and is probably being pushed as hard as many pros horses.
Would I be doing it, no, but that's probably why my 7yr old is doing 1.05 not fox. I'm OCD about them not being pushed and scared but I know with different owners mine could be doing more now.
I think the important thing to remember is everyone wants to do the best for their horse and it's hard when you're told by strangers that you're not.
 
Another thought on a seperate note Re young horse classes. ..how Many can you name that have been successful in young horse classes that Have gone on in life to do well. Not Just dressage, all dicplines? Its not many.
 
coreteam1 said:
Strange 'provocative' question to again cause and stir up misfeelings? :confused:

Why does anyone post? Why do you post? Why do I post?

In my case I like to post on what my boy has been doing, how well or not so well he's been doing. The same as I'm sure 'everyone' else posts? :confused:

You have to admit that there are 'certain' people on this forum that do make a bee-line for 'certain people's post's' and like to make misguided comments that will no doubt offend
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Errr, no, if I said it was non-provocative you'll have to take me at my word. :) As I said in my response to PS, I am very curious why people post, it's as simple as that. I used to post because I enjoyed the camararderie and support I got, also the mutual mickey-taking and ribbing which stopped me taking myself too seriously. Everyone has many and varied reasons for posting, hence why I asked, so I don't think you can assume that everyone else posts with the same intent that you do, coreteam1.

As this has got rather emotive and turned into a spat I shall step away now.
 
Well I've read the whole thread, sat on my hands etc etc and decided I will post my two pence worth.
If I was to judge based on the photo evidence then I may have come down on the pushing to fast side (not certain). However, as I have seen PS and CS competing several times I perhaps have the benefit most dont of having watched the horse warm up in entirety. Guess I should, explain my OH competes at similiar level and and same venues so our paths cross. Not actually spoken to PS as yet (will do on sunday at VV, promise).
So having no axe to grind either way I do think from watching him that CS is just one of those horses that has a little moment from time to time. No different to a lot of horse I see working at that level including my OH's little welshie who happens to be 20yo. What he's doing at the time doesn't seem to have any bearing on when and how.
I also think the moments have reduced from when I first saw him competing at elem level. If he was reacting to being pushed too fast I would expect the moments to increase, not decrease.
Problem is its very difficult to judge anything much from a photo, even vids are difficult compared to being there in the flesh. This is the main reason I rarely respond to request for CC.
OK, back to my little cave.
 
:eek::eek::eek::eek: Whoo I ride and go to my lecture to come back to WW3 on here. Jeeze people give PS a break she posted some pictures of her riding her horse who she is quite rightly very proud of, she has never claimed he is perfect as far as I can remember but then I dont think the perfect horse exists. I for one like PS's posts they give me somthing to aim for one day and shows off exracers in a brilliant way. Both PS and her sister have always been willing to take the time to give training advice when I have asked and it really helped me and my boy, now neither of them needed to awnser any questions they could have left it but they have both given suggestions and encouragment to many people who are competing at a lower lever and for that I am grateful and I'm sure many others are to.

TBF its posts like these that put me off posting any pics on here as we have far more to work on than PS, far more to be pulled apart on and much more tension than CS. I'm rather tempted to do a bit of fb stalking (not that I know who PS is on fb so it would be a bit difficult) so I can look at the pictures without an argument happening.
 
WeeBrown said:
What a thread; took bloody ages to read through! So glad I didn't comment earlier (page 1 I think back then) asking where you stored all yours and your sister's matchy matchy, as would have been totally irrelevent :)
I couldn't care less whether he looks unhappy or happy (I think he looks a bit of both but I don't know any horse looking happy whilst having a strop), I'm still agog that he's only 6...could you come Yorkshire way and teach me?

I'm going to post my dressage to music video next Sunday/Monday - just back in work horse (possibly fat cob if JBIWH is still not up to it), doing walk and trot to "Pocketful of sunshine" - and I will be most offended if I don't get 18 pages of people telling me what's what.
Click to expand...

:D:D:D:D
I promise to be as critical as possible in both the negative and positive, I shall invent another persona just for this and I will write as many posts as I can. (or maybe I shall just go out and hack my pony and then dream as I drink a glass of wine at the cafe up the road, over lunch....dinner ... ::eek:)
 
charlie76 said:
Another thought on a seperate note Re young horse classes. ..how Many can you name that have been successful in young horse classes that Have gone on in life to do well. Not Just dressage, all dicplines? Its not many.
Click to expand...

Don't agree with this!...............

Valegro
Uthopia
Totilas

And a whole LOAD of other dressage horses definitely did Young Horse Classes and did well :D
 
PS
Pic 1. Good
Pic 2. OK
Pic 3. Ok but escaping through o/s shoulder a little.
Pic 4. Not 'reaching' enough your RH crossed over is causing this, a little behind the vertical.
Pic 5. Is where tension shows in neck/eye/expression.
Pic 6. Needs to 'reach' more in front (neck).
Pic 7. Normal hissy fit, one of mine does this.
Pic 8. He's had enough...look at his eye.
Pic 9. You are trying to pull him round to the right? your left legs not on.
pic 10.Again you are pulling with RR your left legs doing nothing.
Pic 11.He's happier here because you've lightened your seat and let him go forward.
Pic 12.Much much better.
Pic 13.Better, but you have too much inside rein.
Pic 14.Again you are crossing your LH over blocking his leading left shoulder and not allowing him to 'reach'.
Pic 15.The changes will come.
Pic 16. He's had enough, what an evil eye! and the rest are worse!.

The changes in the video don't look bad, but the second one you yanked him to get the change.

You didn't ask for the above but you did ask for where other posters thought he was tense, I think it starts in the collected attempts, and in a lot of horses that is where it will start, I think especially with a TB. You have said on many occasions that he doesn't hack and so you don't for your own safety, fair enough. But do you ever take him for a gallop? load him up and go somewhere other than another arena? I think that is essential with a TB.

As for pushing him, I think you are very ambitious to prove that you can 'get there' with an ex racehorse, that's fine, but in my opinion he's getting over boiled with all the school work and that in itself is a form of pushing.

I hope you continue to do well with him, but don't do it like your life depended on it.

For the record this is a genuine piece of advice, I don't teach much these days (I still get asked) and I've competed at a much higher level than you, so no jealousy involved,but just slow down a bit, that's my advice, you can onviously 'take it or leave it'.

I'm also not on any bandwagon you should continue to post and take on board what everyone has to say, why else would you post?
 
Got bored of reading after page 7 so forgive me if this has already been posted:

A few weeks ago did we not all have a discussion about a 6 yr old eventer who was competing at Intermediate? I'm sure the majority of the comments were if the horse was capable why hold it back...providing it had an experienced rider.

I have been a CS stalker for sometime on HHO, what PS has done with him is incredible. From my experience sharp horses need something to keep their mind occupied, CS is obviously an intelligent chap and I imagine he would be thoroughly bored if PS just praticed her 20m circles for an hour.

Anyway as usual CS is beautiful and I hope you continue to post photos of his progress.
 
Wow! Im almost lost for words, having just read all that!

I think anyone who posts pics on a forum HAS to be prepared for CC, and I have seen PS take on board a LOT of very good CC...some harsher than others, and I have seen her post updates on whT has worked and whT has not....

What I find sad is that clearly there ARE some people that just do not like PS, which is fine. There are loads of people in life that I don't like (I'm quite an intolerant person) but there is a BIG difference in giving genuine CC, harsh or soft, and using the excuse of CC as a chance to bawl out someone you don't like. It's called bullying.

I'm not saying that every CC post on here is bullyish, some of the CC is very balanced and thought out...so,e I can see, some I'm not refined enough to see. But sorry, some of you are just being snots about this and I find it uncomfortable to read.

If you don't like PS, who cares! I'm sure she doesn't, but it's never nice to be openly awful to someone...and to those of you who may jump in with 'you're wrong, I'm not like that blah fricking blah...' sodding well be honest with yourself and have the balls to admit it!

Ugh.
 
Re. The young horse classes. I don't think Utopia or totilas ever won them. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong. Might be looking in the wrong place!
 
To add, you have all said that RR post is good but what she is saying about the half pass is what I said - crossing the inside hand and lacking in suppleness and I got told I Was being nasty!
 
I looked at the pictures and read all the posts - it wasn't til I got to Rouletterose's list I saw a poster agree with my thoughts on the photographs alone (without knowing, or caring about, any background).

I for one don't go for the matchy crap, too distracting and IMO detracts from the picture. His eye hardly looks soft at all and in the picture a page ot two back he looks at least behind the vertical, and barely into a contact.

Like the hat :)
 
Can't quite believe some of the complete rubbish that I'm reading on this post!! Seriously- I think you all need to go and watch the likes of many a so called top trainer in this country & then you would think again!! What about people like Roland tong or Richard Barrett who's horses are dripping and foaming& so tight& tense you can hardly bear to watch?!
I take my hat off to PS- what she has achieved is amazing, & the horse looks incredible, surely every horse will have the odd playful moment!
 
Um, I have trained with Roland. He worked on getting my tense tight horse soft and relaxed. Never tense and dripping in sweat! Also seen him working horses at home with none of the tension or foaming! Unfair to use people That cannot defend themselves
 
I am going to step up to the plate. Posting on a public forum with pictures, vids, etc always leaves you wide open to opinion and criticism whether good or not. The thing that is very disappointing however, on some of these threads (not just this one by the way), is the MANNER in which these comments come across. The written word can come across in a completely different way than the face-to-face spoken word. For some reason, PS and CS make everyone get terribly excited!!

The main thing for me is that PS knows CS inside out, back to front, left to right. Only she is the best person to know if he is tense or trying to tell her when things are getting too much. She has done a tremendous job in bringing him on and her training methods should be applauded for what she has achieved so far. PS has a trainer just like the rest of us do, so I am sure that he would have told her whats what if she was travelling down the wrong path.

Only time will tell if she is going at it a little quickly, but if she knows her horse like we all know our own, then surely she is the best one to decide what is too much too soon? I have always learnt by my own mistakes. She has been very gracious in accepting everyone's opinion, not sure if I could hold myself with such calm and poise I can tell you!! I would be mortified with the way in which some posters on here just get shot down.

Everyone is entitled to post on a public forum as I have said and this is obviously my opinion, but I wish that we would all think a little about how we would feel if the boot was on the other foot. Such a shame that someone's hard work and dedication to her horse and the sport of dressage is so easily rubbished.

No replies are necessary, just my opinion!! :)
 
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Juno-thank you, and it will be lovely to see you sun :) am a little scared of how busy its going to be so you may have to peel me off the floor before we can chat!!!!!

RR-thank you for the more detailed crit. I accept completely that my position is not perfect, but then how many peoples is, and if all this post had been was telling me left hand up/right leg back etc etc that would be fine, i can take as much flack as anyone about ME.what i rather object to is being told the horse is unhappy, when i know for damn sure he's trying it on. he's playing the same old trick he learnt worked as a 2yo and the same trick that worked to get him out of racing/ going in the stalls as a 3yo....the old bronc to a standstill and SPIN manouvre is awful hard to sit in a race saddle and from what iv been told he learnt it was a useful bargaining tool-ill go, but only 90% and if you push me, ill ditch you........well he hasnt yet managed to get rid of me, hence he's slowly but surely stopping trying, and as long as my velcro holds out, in another 12months id like to think we'll have seen the back of these *moments*.

iv tried to explain the above over and over but no one can bear to hold their hands up and say, well ok maybe you DO know him best after all.

i WOULD like to say that i didnt "yank" him to get the change, he got a bit stuck, jumped me up out the saddle and thus didnt go forward but there is absolutely no "yanking" going on.

also, its easy to say that he MUST go off and do other things but how the can you say that without knowing him! he is loop the loop no self control dangerous to hack when he gets wound up so taking him for a gallop is just an insane idea.....quit apart from the fact that he hates being asked to gallop and starts spinning round and hurling himself the other way to try and avoid it, so i dont think thats going to do him any good.
he doesnt enjoy jumping, but he likes polework so generally does that once a week and canters in the field ground permitting.
he's happy with that little lot and can you please trust me when i say that romantic as the notion of taking him for a nice blast is, the result would be a trip to A&E and these episodes would return with a vengance.and you clearly know about the hacking history so why even go there????????????????

why i feel i have to now justify everything i do, i dont know.
 
Roulette - Very good post and i totally agree with your comments.

I'd like to add that in no way was what i said meant to be a witch hunt of any form I simply stated what I saw and my own opinion. PS can take it or leave it, I dont really care and im sure she dosent either.

For the people who are under the impression that im jealous, very far from it, I have 3 stunning horses of my own and also a horse that is with me on behalf of an owner.

Saratoga I believe has a very nice dressage horse which she does very well on at a high level and i'd value her opinion very highly, I believe not many people on the forum know that as shes not constantly posting about her horses on here.
 
"as shes not constantly posting about her horses on here. "

see, now that sounds like a nasty dig................i do post a lot, because a lot of people, publically AND by PM, ask for CS updates. i LOVE looking at other peoples horses in their reports, and loads of people often state that they do too, so not sure thats theres a problem and you dont HAVE to read my posts/look at my pics.

I know full well about saratogas horse, and i also know he has outbursts too, which are accepted as part of *him* as he has a past. CS also has a past but apparently his outbursts are not just part of him, they mean something more, this is what i dont get and what no one can answer, its that old one rule for one thing again....................
 
Saratoga does indeed have a lovely dressage horse That she has done really well with as he really is the definition of tricky!
 
PS I didn't read that as a dig at all, more an explanation. If you take every tiny thing like that so personally you'll be exhausted!
 
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