pics + a vid - CS working today:

Sorry to join in PS - this is not intended as a dig, but sometimes I think it is a case of protesting too much about things that draw more attention to them.

I would keep posting, and just take people's comments you don't feel need justifying with a shovel of salt and move on. Sometimes I feel you react to things that would barely get a shoulder shrug from me. I guess what I'm saying is you obviously work hard, learn to let the things you feel are entirely irrelevant roll off you :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
Juno-thank you, and it will be lovely to see you sun :) am a little scared of how busy its going to be so you may have to peel me off the floor before we can chat!!!!!

RR-thank you for the more detailed crit. I accept completely that my position is not perfect, but then how many peoples is, and if all this post had been was telling me left hand up/right leg back etc etc that would be fine, i can take as much flack as anyone about ME.what i rather object to is being told the horse is unhappy, when i know for damn sure he's trying it on. he's playing the same old trick he learnt worked as a 2yo and the same trick that worked to get him out of racing/ going in the stalls as a 3yo....the old bronc to a standstill and SPIN manouvre is awful hard to sit in a race saddle and from what iv been told he learnt it was a useful bargaining tool-ill go, but only 90% and if you push me, ill ditch you........well he hasnt yet managed to get rid of me, hence he's slowly but surely stopping trying, and as long as my velcro holds out, in another 12months id like to think we'll have seen the back of these *moments*.

iv tried to explain the above over and over but no one can bear to hold their hands up and say, well ok maybe you DO know him best after all.

i WOULD like to say that i didnt "yank" him to get the change, he got a bit stuck, jumped me up out the saddle and thus didnt go forward but there is absolutely no "yanking" going on.

also, its easy to say that he MUST go off and do other things but how the can you say that without knowing him! he is loop the loop no self control dangerous to hack when he gets wound up so taking him for a gallop is just an insane idea.....quit apart from the fact that he hates being asked to gallop and starts spinning round and hurling himself the other way to try and avoid it, so i dont think thats going to do him any good.
he doesnt enjoy jumping, but he likes polework so generally does that once a week and canters in the field ground permitting.
he's happy with that little lot and can you please trust me when i say that romantic as the notion of taking him for a nice blast is, the result would be a trip to A&E and these episodes would return with a vengance.and you clearly know about the hacking history so why even go there????????????????

why i feel i have to now justify everything i do, i dont know.
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You don't have to justify everything you do....you say he has a canter in the fields that's fine, if you can't gallop him, that's fine too, by the way, I meant a controlled steady gallop not a 'blast'. It just has to be something that's not on a school.

You should try and think of posting your reports on here as a conversation, people will post what THEY see, you won't always agree with it, I still can see he gets very tense, you say that's because he's 'trying it on' but he's trying it on BECAUSE he gets tense, if he was totally relaxed he wouldn't bother.

The comments on the pics were not 'hand up hand down' as you put it, but just to try and show you where the tension crept in and trying to help you on issues with the contact and allowing him to release his neck/tension within the movement you are doing.

You do know your horse better than anyone else does, that's not an issue either, this whole thing started because a few posters asked if you were possibly pushing your horse too much too soon, if nothing else it's made you think about it, and remember that a good rider never has a blocked mind.
 
PS you seem to take everything a bit to heart too much. If you're going to post pics on a public forum then you have to expect opinions. I have hardly seen anything in this post which is 'having a dig'
 
charlie76-as far as i know, that partic horse was pushed too hard as a youngster, totally fried and hence has ended up tricky. saratoga does a super job with him i know, but how is ok that her horse still has little outbursts, and yet if mine does, it cannot also be beause of his past, its because i need to back off.......................if S's horse is also still displaying tension, shouldnt she too back off?

RR-do you not understand the concept that lazy horses that get away with a trick a few times, learn to keep trying the same thing to get the same result (no rider, thus no work). if you have never come across a spoilt horse that *tries it on* for the sake of getting out of work, you are lucky...............i get paid to ride them for other people and there are plenty of them, as my bank balance will testify! CS learnt this as a 2yo, he carried it on as a 3yo, he did it a lot with me as a 4yo, and each year since its got better.................is there no chance in your mind at all that this is not a tension/pushing issue? does the evidence not support the horse just trying it on out of habit.................several people who HAVE seen the horse work for prolonged periods(one a very well respected poster and trainer on here) have said this, but still you insist it 100% is a tension issue?
that to me is not a reasoned discussion.
 
I havent read the whole thread as it is far too long. IMO a lot of horses do things to get out of having to work properly, whether it be bucking and plunging or spooking and spinning. I have got to know when my horse is spooking genuinely or when he is just looking for things to spook at to get out of working.

PS I think it is amazing how far you have got to with CS when he is only a 6yr old! You must be doing a hell of a lot right to get an ex racer to that level so quick.
 
Madam_max said:
PS you seem to take everything a bit to heart too much. If you're going to post pics on a public forum then you have to expect opinions. I have hardly seen anything in this post which is 'having a dig'
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I tend to agree, you and CS are both talented, but even the talented need a little help sometimes, no one seems to be 'having a dig' but instead have offered truly constructive criticism. You come across as being very dismissive of anyone who does criticise you, although I do agree with you the hat thing is tedious, especially as you are wearing one in the current lot of pictures.

Focus is good and you have that in spades, sometimes though we dressage divas can become a little too focused, so much so that we stop listening to the horse, believe me I know as I have been there myself with a very hot tempered madam of a horse, the lessons she taught me have benefited every horse I have trained since her - she taught me loads.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
charlie76-as far as i know, that partic horse was pushed too hard as a youngster, totally fried and hence has ended up tricky. saratoga does a super job with him i know, but how is ok that her horse still has little outbursts, and yet if mine does, it cannot also be beause of his past, its because i need to back off.......................if S's horse is also still displaying tension, shouldnt she too back off?

RR-do you not understand the concept that lazy horses that get away with a trick a few times, learn to keep trying the same thing to get the same result (no rider, thus no work). if you have never come across a spoilt horse that *tries it on* for the sake of getting out of work, you are lucky...............i get paid to ride them for other people and there are plenty of them, as my bank balance will testify! CS learnt this as a 2yo, he carried it on as a 3yo, he did it a lot with me as a 4yo, and each year since its got better.................is there no chance in your mind at all that this is not a tension/pushing issue? does the evidence not support the horse just trying it on out of habit.................several people who HAVE seen the horse work for prolonged periods(one a very well respected poster and trainer on here) have said this, but still you insist it 100% is a tension issue?
that to me is not a reasoned discussion.
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Of course I have come accross many horses that were ungenerous and would not give you an inch more than they had to and were sour and generally miserable unless getting their own way. But two years! is rather a long time to cure that! I'm not surprised you have a large bank balance if it takes you that long to set a horse on the right road.

If you are convinced that your horse is not tense/miserable and that you do not push him too much and that you have never pushed him too much, and it is just your horse still in a very bad habit then there is nothing more to be said and I wish you luck with him.
 
firewell said:
I feel sad because I wouldn't be surprised if PS doesn't post pics on on here anymore.
I for one enjoy looking at the pictures of a beautiful horse, pretty colours and an elegant rider.
I don't see any more than that because IT'S A PICTURE how are any of us to know anymore????
I really enjoy PS's posts, I always find her comments relevant and I also enjoy looking at her sisters threads as well.
This is what happened to Mad Hector and the girl with the event horse called supplejack.
They post DECENT reports and posts with pretty pictures and beautiful horses and they get frightened off. Why can't people just be nice???
I'm really worried this forum is just going to turn into a virtual bitchy livery yard where everyone is too free with their opinions and all the nice people who post things that are interesting don't come anymore.
I mean for goodness sake, anyone who spends time on this godforsaken forum is crazy enough about horses to not let their horse suffer.
Oh please keep posting PS!! You can PM me your pictures and CS updates if you like because I for one get pleasure from them :).
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Well said and completely agree!
 
Thank you Tempi and charlie76, I don't post on here a lot about myself or my boys, but am more of a lurker...

PS - yes my boy was pushed FAR too hard as a youngster by previous owners, and it nearly cost him his life. I bought him for meat money, turned him away for a year and restarted him from scratch. It's been a long hard road with him, especially to get him to trust anybody again, and not panic at the possibility of making a mistake. And it's taken a long while, but he's one of the most giving genuine horses I have ever owned.

He's spooky, and sharp (natural personality and breeding) and over enthusiastic. But he's never negative, backward, unhappy in his work and he doesnt ever have to say no to me.

He doesn't have 'episodes' as you call it anymore, and if we did I would be concerned about his work load and what I am asking of him. The ONLY time recently he got upset was when I trialled a different magnesium based supplement with him that was highly recommended and it didn't agree with him.

For those that don't know he's 13 now, training PSG and has a smile on his face every day. I bought him as an 8 year old, heavily trained but never competed.

So based on all of that maybe you can see why I have said what I have?
 
for goodness sakes RR, do you think people would keep parting with hard earnt money if their horse wasnt progressing after 2 years! no, some people like how i work the horse and stick with me for *normal* lessons long after the horse stops whatever offensive thing they were doing, some use me as a crash test dummy then go on their merry way again,some just want me to help back or ride away a tricky youngster, but i have a steady stream of people requesting help with the spoilt, delinquent or downright rude members of the equine world.....albeit NOT ALL the people i teach have norty ponies, i have plenty of lovely straightforward ones too .......stop twisting everything i say.
 
thank you for clarifying saratoga...............hopefully by the time CS is 13 he also will be well past this.

im quite sure it wasnt an easy ride with P in the first few years, so whilst i see why you said what you said, perhaps you of all people would recognise the need to push through some things and accept that explosions will happen and it wont all be pic perfect if the horse is not a clean slate.
 
I suppose that's my point. When he was in that place I wasn't asking him for HP, changes, half steps or lateral work. I was just trying to get him to accept a rider again. And at no point did I 'push through it', it was very much taken at his pace. He needed the time to realise he could get things wrong and not be punished for it.
 
From what I understand about Saratogas horse, he has Only started the more advanced work in the past eighteen months? Up until Then I believe he was competing at elementary. I don't know her personally but that's the impression I have had from other posts.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
for goodness sakes RR, do you think people would keep parting with hard earnt money if their horse wasnt progressing after 2 years! no, some people like how i work the horse and stick with me for *normal* lessons long after the horse stops whatever offensive thing they were doing, some use me as a crash test dummy then go on their merry way again,some just want me to help back or ride away a tricky youngster, but i have a steady stream of people requesting help with the spoilt, delinquent or downright rude members of the equine world.....albeit NOT ALL the people i teach have norty ponies, i have plenty of lovely straightforward ones too .......stop twisting everything i say.
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You miss the point...I'm talking about your OWN horse taking two years, you said he was doing it with you when age 4 now age 6 and still doing it but less, so you sort out naughty horses for a living? and your own horse is still very naughty and it's not tension? and it's nothing to do with you? and you've never pushed him?

I also said you are obviously convinced with your many many years of experience (what are you 25?) that you horse is just plain naughty, I was just agreeing with you for a quiet life, I've decided your beyond help.
 
Rouletterose said:
Of course I have come accross many horses that were ungenerous and would not give you an inch more than they had to and were sour and generally miserable unless getting their own way. But two years! is rather a long time to cure that! I'm not surprised you have a large bank balance if it takes you that long to set a horse on the right road.
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For the record as someone whose ambition is nothing more than a decent days hunting I can actually say that I plugged away for 2 years with one of mine, and he could still have off days, fortunately his off days were manifested in standing still and going mule like, the off days got less and the good days got better, in the end I got him to give the 100% he had and the stubborn old bugger dropped dead 2 minutes later!

If you think you are doing the right thing PS then stick with it, I just think that if I am seeing him as tense (although I did say earlier he 'had one on him) then surely that is what a judge would see? I know exactly what you are going through, but TBH it's not really right for me and my horse to 'have it out' I tend to change the subject, but fair play to you I just think that it would be a shame to miss out on improvement by being blinkered.
 
I'd also like to clarify my post wasn't a dig either,It may have been a statement you didn't like but it was actually very complimentary about you and CS. I would happily have a lesson from you, I think you ride very nicely.
I think these photos demonstrate a slightly more grown up attitude from you about your horse.
 
Baggybreeches said:
For the record as someone whose ambition is nothing more than a decent days hunting I can actually say that I plugged away for 2 years with one of mine, and he could still have off days, fortunately his off days were manifested in standing still and going mule like, the off days got less and the good days got better, in the end I got him to give the 100% he had and the stubborn old bugger dropped dead 2 minutes later!

If you think you are doing the right thing PS then stick with it, I just think that if I am seeing him as tense (although I did say earlier he 'had one on him) then surely that is what a judge would see? I know exactly what you are going through, but TBH it's not really right for me and my horse to 'have it out' I tend to change the subject, but fair play to you I just think that it would be a shame to miss out on improvement by being blinkered.
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Point taken BB, someone else said earlier on this thread, in fact quite a few from memory that PS's posts spark shall we say 'interesting' arguments. I have realised having trawled through this lot(something I would not normally bother to do) that PS provokes 99% of it herself by being so prickly....and self righteous.
 
Madam_max said:
At the end of the day it's simple.

PS posts pics. Everyone says how wonderful and fluffy it all looks and everyone is happy.
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Sadly that does seem to be the case....shame....I don't do wonderful and flufffy, to me there is always so much more to learn from other riders and from horses themselves.
 
Well there goes my early night, thanks everyone lol!!! I'll be knackerd in the morning now!

I havent really got an opinion on this thread but i do think some people need some chill out and happy pills :D

Love the pics and updates PS keep them coming x
 
I have kept out of this up to now I find it all very interesting.
To people that have been around serious horses all their working lives and compete at a higher level the horse does look tense that is not to say they do not like it.They are merely trying to make a younger rider aware of problems that may be occurring so the horse is not screwed up as you can push a horse over the edge and it happens so easily with precocious youngsters in relatively inexperienced hands.You have been given good advice from experienced people so take some heed of what has been said.
If all you need is reassurance you are right and that the sun shines out of your backside only take notice of the fan club!!!! and ignore the experienced people(some of whom may be judging in future).As has been said before the proof is in the scores and not how it is perceived on a forum.
Now I am going to be very blunt with you PS and say a bit less of the spoilt brat syndrome would help a lot.I think a lot of your replies on here have that feel about them.I hope you take that on board .
I will now toddle off on my zimmer and hide.
 
last few posts are mainly rubbish-iv had some very interesting and civillised bouncing of ideas in the past with (and these are only the two that immedately spring to mind) half step and FB, which have resulted in me trying diff things/chnaging things slightly with good results, and iv gone back to them/ the thread, afterwards and said so.

i dont actually have to take every piece of advice given, but to say i disregard it all and only want *fluffy* comments is not true.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
last few posts are mainly rubbish-iv had some very interesting and civillised bouncing of ideas in the past with (and these are only the two that immedately spring to mind) half step and FB, which have resulted in me trying diff things/chnaging things slightly with good results, and iv gone back to them/ the thread, afterwards and said so.

i dont actually have to take every piece of advice given, but to say i disregard it all and only want *fluffy* comments is not true.
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I think this says so much about YOU!!!!!!!!
 
Quite shocked when I saw he was only 6 tbh. Looks ok in pics, but my goodness that's a lot to be doing with a 6yr old TB.

Look up! You tend to draw your chin back and it spoils your balance and relaxation.
 
popsdosh said:
I think this says so much about YOU!!!!!!!!
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Why?? I think this thread started off with good intentions, no one was being rude, and it has started to become quite personal, there is no need to start making personal remarks. I wouldn't be surprised if PS never wants to post on here again, whether or not she is in the right or wrong.
Is does feel like it has turned into a bit of a witch hunt, everyone pick on PS because she MAYBE she got a little prickly and defensive. We all like to think we are open to CC, but I think many of us would get a little defensive in response to the pulling apart she has had as a rider, ON A PUBLIC FORUM! :D
 
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