pics + a vid - CS working today:

I can't believe I'm contributing to this. . .but, out of curiosity, Magic, how involved are you in training competitive reining horses or AQHA horses in general? Re using them as an example, they push horses very young, Futurities are all, no one ever wears a helmet, and while there are lovely trainers, I'm sure, it's a very hard gig. Yes, the Olympic inclusion has changed things a lot but that was pretty much forced on them and the first year the Americans struggled to find good horses older than 6 that were still competing!!

Don't get me wrong, I love reining and it's great fun. But as an example of a discipline that favours the sympathetic development of every horse as an individual and a high premium on mental and physical long term soundness. . .hmmm. ;)
 
As a lurker on this forum this thread deters me from posting even more...
PS i love your threads, I love seeing the pictures of you and CS working- It's a real inspiration for a numpty like me! Please keep on posting :D
 
TarrSteps said:
I can't believe I'm contributing to this. . .but, out of curiosity, Magic, how involved are you in training competitive reining horses or AQHA horses in general? I have always liked the QH after seeing them at Stoneleigh 20 odd years ago. I dont agree with starting yearlings/2yos, but it does not stop me going racing or watching reining classes.

Re using them as an example, they push horses very young, Futurities are all, no one ever wears a helmet, and while there are lovely trainers, I'm sure, it's a very hard gig. Yes, the Olympic inclusion has changed things a lot but that was pretty much forced on them and the first year the Americans struggled to find good horses older than 6 that were still competing!! - Where did I say they were perfect? Where did I indicate that the videos represent anything but the individual & their horse? Western riding originates from working the ranch/cattle, the hats were protection from the weather & chaps protected their legs. They use different saddles, ride longer, their horses generally need to be far steadier, & they have a totally different culture/history to the UK. Their shows are a reflection of their history working horses. Just like all the red coats you see when going hunting.

Don't get me wrong, I love reining and it's great fun. But as an example of a discipline that favours the sympathetic development of every horse as an individual and a high premium on mental and physical long term soundness. . .hmmm. ;) - Again it is a video depicting the individual & their horse, it just happens to be reining, it could of been showjumping! There is no where on the post that suggests anything other then it being an example of a partnership
Click to expand...

My mare will move over in the stable when asked. You dont need to point you just ask. This did not happen over night, it started with a gentle nudge with the hand, followed by a point of the finger to just voice. She learns like any other animal including human through repetitive & consistant work. If people want to dictate or use stronger tactics with their horses, fine, but dont knock someone for pointing out there are other ways of doing things. Dont knock someone because they have pointed out that from what they can see the horse does not look happy. Dont dismiss someone because you cant see what they see. Some of these posters have taken a lot of stick when their views are very valid. A 6yo TB may well not be mature enough either physically or mentally, so pointing that out is not unfair comment. There are too many posts but in one it is stated something along the lines I jumped on it straight away. A 6yo is still a baby, yes you have to be firm, but you also need to be sure that what you are asking is acceptable. It is being asked in a way that the horse understands & you know that it is capable of doing. A lot of horses have set backs, they get sour, they get niggly pains just like we do. How many people have got a blister & then been able to walk perfectly, no limping, no tightness in the body? Horses cant tell you I have a little niggle when you do that, can you stop? Well they do, it will be maybe slight tension, a swish of the tail. which you ignore, so they increase their message, & so forth. I also know that years around horses means nothing if you dont listen & understand their body language.
 
I think there is an irony here. . .;)

Anyhow, I said none of those things, I merely pointed out that using reining as an example of tact, understanding, individual training, and the importance of time is perhaps worth a conversation. :)

I'm all for honesty, fair examination, empathy, and polite discussion. :)
 
By the way, learning doesn't come from repetition, it comes from understanding and proficiency comes from prefect practice. That's why it is quite possible for a horse to learn - good or bad - in a single session, and why it is possible to do things badly for years.
 
We had a horse at work who's sire is Alzao and he was quirky, always squealing and would kick over the wheelie bins on bin day. He was a funny boy :)

I have an exracehorse, well she was in training but never raced, and I hope one day to be able to do half of what you and boy do with her :) I think hrs stunning and you've done a great job with him. Can I send my mare to you so you can work your magic in her :p :D
 
TarrSteps said:
By the way, learning doesn't come from repetition, it comes from understanding and proficiency comes from prefect practice. That's why it is quite possible for a horse to learn - good or bad - in a single session, and why it is possible to do things badly for years.
Click to expand...

Sorry TarrSteps but horses learn from repetition & consistancy, ask any trainer especially those that do stunt work. Below is what promoted posters to question what is going on here.

"the trot and the canter have gone up another notch in terms of power/self carrige, and all the sideways stuff is comming much easier, there is just the occasional moment when he simply has to check im awake, and that i applied superglue.....and he wouldnt be him if we didnt have at least one episode of snake head and backwards bucking each week!"

"and just for good measure........check i wasnt getting complacent......." - Horses dont think that way? If the horse is reacting like this then he is either uncomfortable with something or he is testing your leadership skills.
"he only did it twice, and then he thought about it once more, but decided against it of his own free will .................and as ive said previously, these tantrums are far less frequent and far less intense that they have been previously-do you not think that might tie in more with a submission issue that an mental pressure issue?"

"he worked for 45mins and the only tantrums he had are the 2 you see in these pics."

"firewell-yes, definately he gets a rollocking! you can see in the first set of pics that he pulled his fave *trick* of bucking whilst jumping backwards and slightly to the left then droppign a shoulder and spinning 360 to the right......if you try and stop him mid spin he just goes higher so better to sit, let him stop moving and then kick him forward (and he gets sent forward really very firmly indeed if you catch my drift)."


Hence the comments like below

"The odd tantrum in a session fine but often & periods of this behaviour throughout a schooling session would make me feel that there was to much pressure on the horse." - This is a valid comment, because horses are not geared up to give us a hard time, they would never survive like this in the wild. We may have domesticated them, but we have not taken away their natural flight process in dealing with things. We can modify it, but the horse is a prey animal, it reacts in defence.

"Do you not think if CS did not want PS to ride him anymore as he was too much he would do a "Proper" display of his acrobatics until she was on the floor...at the end of the day if a horse doesn't want to do something it won't -" This is what worries me, because this is garbage, just ask the amount of vets who have treated horses who have been in pain for years! Yes they may have objected, but if the rider is good enough to sit through it then yes a horse will just give up. I had a TB mare long story, but had been beaten & treated as a "TB mare" only she had muscle damage in the area where the saddle fits. Yet she did not rodeo everytime ridden, she might be tense but she certainly didnt spend her time trying to get you off all the time.


"Is it me or can you see that he is wearing a 'I'm gonna be a monkey today' expression

"He is a monkey, but a very talented and gorgeous one! Have you entered the RoR dressage series thingy?"

Looking fantastic as always but what a cheeky boy haha" - Love the naughty pics, he really does have his naghty face on!

Ha ha these really made me smile, looks all super dressage horsey and then morphs into little s..t mode!" - So it is assumed he is just naughty, ok that was just what was said of my mare, who receive punishment for being in pain. Not saying its the case here, but horse dont think as a human they think as a horse.



"the episodes are not new, are lesser in frequency and er intensity(!) than previously and are not related to any specific movement or even to harder work, more often than not the first one comes from trotting on a loose rein and suddenly WHAM horse is out from under me and spinning-he apparently used to do the same in race training and has always been inclined to test his rider (race trainer called him un-genuine ). i dont think he'll ever come out without testing me at least once,i just think he'll always need to check that im still the boss." Never thought to ask why? Why is he testing your & previous leadership skills?

"there are *yes* horses and *maybe* horses, CS is a *maybe* horse-he has to check how much i want it, each and every day, and thats fine with me because it doesnt bother me in the slightest and i couldnt afford a *yes* horse with GP potential." ~~- Really? You honestly believe a horse thinks in that way? A horse does not give a sh$t, about how much you want it. He just wants to know that he can trust you to keep him safe. That is it in a nutshell. If he is playing up like this, then either there is something going on where he is not comfortable whether physical or he mentally cant cope with the work or he does not completely trust you! The fact he is doing it each & every day, & you are ignoring him, & is exactly why you are getting the comments so far. He is NOT happy.

What the horse does is test your leadership skills, are you up to the job. They react when they are in pain or uncomfortable, if they are overfed for the work they are doing, if the tack is causing discomfort, if they are scared, bored, excited etc. They dont, dont sit there thinking, umm wonder how I can make life difficult for her/him today. Humans forever put human traits onto animals. They live by instinct, everything black and white. So why then do humans one minuet allow a behaviour & the next punish it? The most common, lead your horse to the mounting block, get on, it takes a step forward before your ready, your in a rush, you dont correct it, yet next time you do. It is either acceptable to fidget, or its not. If you tell a child do that & the consequences are... & you dont follow through, what happens? Some horses have more character then others, but they all still live by the same rules of instinct.

And TarrSteps, yes I am very very lucky, none of my horses that I have bred have been anything but straight forward once I have listened to them. But then it is a lot easier when you have had them all their lives. But even the ones I have taken on with their "quirks" have turned out fine. I failed with one and that was due to her having kissing spine. I think she spent 2yrs being described as a "difficult mare", naughty, hormonal etc.
 
TarrSteps said:
I can't believe I'm contributing to this. . .but, out of curiosity, Magic, how involved are you in training competitive reining horses or AQHA horses in general? Re using them as an example, they push horses very young, Futurities are all, no one ever wears a helmet, and while there are lovely trainers, I'm sure, it's a very hard gig. Yes, the Olympic inclusion has changed things a lot but that was pretty much forced on them and the first year the Americans struggled to find good horses older than 6 that were still competing!!

Don't get me wrong, I love reining and it's great fun. But as an example of a discipline that favours the sympathetic development of every horse as an individual and a high premium on mental and physical long term soundness. . .hmmm. ;)
Click to expand...

Have to say the irony struck me too, having had the misfortune to share a yard with a reining "champion"
 
magic104 said:
My mare will move over in the stable when asked. You dont need to point you just ask. This did not happen over night, it started with a gentle nudge with the hand, followed by a point of the finger to just voice. She learns like any other animal including human through repetitive & consistant work. If people want to dictate or use stronger tactics with their horses, fine, but dont knock someone for pointing out there are other ways of doing things. Dont knock someone because they have pointed out that from what they can see the horse does not look happy. Dont dismiss someone because you cant see what they see. Some of these posters have taken a lot of stick when their views are very valid. A 6yo TB may well not be mature enough either physically or mentally, so pointing that out is not unfair comment. There are too many posts but in one it is stated something along the lines I jumped on it straight away. A 6yo is still a baby, yes you have to be firm, but you also need to be sure that what you are asking is acceptable. It is being asked in a way that the horse understands & you know that it is capable of doing. A lot of horses have set backs, they get sour, they get niggly pains just like we do. How many people have got a blister & then been able to walk perfectly, no limping, no tightness in the body? Horses cant tell you I have a little niggle when you do that, can you stop? Well they do, it will be maybe slight tension, a swish of the tail. which you ignore, so they increase their message, & so forth. I also know that years around horses means nothing if you dont listen & understand their body language.
Click to expand...

But how can you make these judgements not knowing CS, PS or seeing the horse in person, just seeing photos? I'm not sure why you have brought this thread back up.

I'm sure my 10yr old and 14yr old looks tense during work at times as does any horse or any person for that matter!!!

Please keep posting PS I look forward to your threads and learn alot having a ex-racer myself.
 
magic104 said:
Sorry I am not against someone being "hatless" it is their prerogative, but it does not alter the fact it is a selfish act..... say nothing about DON'T ride without a hat, just the consequences.
Click to expand...

If you are pro-choice about hat wearing, then why point it out in the first place? I'm pro-choice on a lot of things - abortion, contraception, religion etc, but if I were to call one of those choices selfish/stupid/irrepsonsible then others would assume (probably correctly, else why would I have said it!) that therefore I was NOT pro-choice.

Also "It's a bit contradicory, especially considering that those two are riding in front of audiences/under spotlights, one of which appears to be galloping round in circles, all without bridles? Don't get how that could possibly be a remotely safe situation...". Shows that when you understand your equine partner & the trust is there for both there is no need to "dictate" the horse is a willing partner. None of these horses were trained overnight, so I really dont get what point you are trying to make?? You ride with your weight not the bridle, there is a western rider, if you had watched reining classes then you would know that is what they do. QH's are trained to go flat out when chasing cattle & to stop ASAP once it has been roped. Riding in front of an audience under the spotlights, wow that is dangerous on an untrained horse perhaps. But hey at least they dont have to walk out on foot or ride another to accept any rewards because their horse cant cope with the applauding!
Click to expand...

I have watched reining classes, and they put an awful lot of physical strain on the horse. I didn't realise they were quite so young though until TarrSteps mentioned it.

And I'm not a complete idiot - I do know that you don't ride by just pulling on a pair of reins ;) Infact, I used to jump my old horse without any tack (Did you know, riding without tack also invalidates your insurance with many companies? so all three of the riders in your videos are invalidating theirs! Yet another hypocritical point...) and this morning didn't even have to touch my horses mouth - despite having been hunting yesterday - and he hacked out beautifully with just the aids from my legs and seat.

Are you arguing that CS was trained overnight? Because if you think he was, I'd sure like to send my horse to her for a day and end up with something that can compete successfully at advanced-medium :p

Any horse, even a 'trained' one, can freak out in certain circumstances. I've seen a certain 4*-winning eventer, whose been to the Olympics and other championships, having one of her advanced horses throw a complete fit in the warm up of an even because a door banged in the indoor arena. You can't really argue that that horse is not trained.
Also, even a trained horse can slip or stumble, especially when galloping in a tight arena. I've had a rotational fall on a very experienced jumping pony because his back leg slipped on take off as the surface was a bit loose. Even if you trust the horse not to deliberately try and deck you because you have a partnership, it doesn't mean that an accident won't happen.

Finally, I have NO idea what point you're trying to make either, so that makes two of us. I understand my point perfectly well though. I also don't see why you decided to drag up this thread which had been done to death and buried two months ago?
 
foxy1 said:
Have to say the irony struck me too, having had the misfortune to share a yard with a reining "champion"
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Do you people not read? "Where did I say they were perfect? Where did I indicate that the videos represent anything but the individual & their horse?" I repeat, this is about the indviduals concerned in the videos & their horses, not the dicipline or how anyone else trains their horse. No wonder horses struggle god almighty, READ before questioning what has already been answered. As you both seem to be so hung up over reigning here try this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzUgnhV-EU

I also repeat the videos are an example of COMMUNICATION & TRUST

"But how can you make these judgements not knowing CS, PS or seeing the horse in person, just seeing photos? I'm not sure why you have brought this thread back up." Because of her comment
""the trot and the canter have gone up another notch in terms of power/self carrige, and all the sideways stuff is comming much easier, there is just the occasional moment when he simply has to check im awake, and that i applied superglue.....and he wouldnt be him if we didnt have at least one episode of snake head and backwards bucking each week!" - Each week, come one. Bought it back up because too many people have the mind set that horses are naughty are capable of thinking like a human & "Sorry to drag this up but there have been so many valid points made, including the above & I think it is important that riders remember that this is a partnership. You are not a dictator, you ask, the horse."
 
The funny thing is, magic, by and large I completely agree with what you are saying. I also don't believe that horses have "tantrums" or even are "naughty". They only react.

But why drag up this old this old thread again? I agree some valid points have been made along the way but largely been lost amongst the other rubbish.

(Are you going to shout at me for not reading your reply properly again, sorry I do tend to skim read long text, probably why I got in to a lot of trouble at school :) )
 
How did i miss this post ?? also can i ask who is ur sister you keep referring to? The colored in my sig does fantastic work then all of a sudden will be a total **** going backwards trying to nap all so he does not go forward. Its as if a switch goes off then back on. This happens every so often at home never at comps i do think some horses just try it on.
 
Magic104, quite frankly you seem to have far too much time on your hands.

I watched a Carl Hester programme, showing valegro as a 6yo. He had canter half pass, canter pirouettes, 3 & 4x changes established. In short, he was more advanced at 6 than CS. Has he been ruined and rushed in your opinion?
Bearing in mind warmbloods mature much slower than tb's.
Most sharp horses thow a fit every now and again. If I backed off everytime my horse had a moment I would be lucky to trot round with no contact.

Also, for the record, there is a lot more to dressage training than that of asking a horse to move over in it's stable...
 
It never fails to amaze me how rude some people can be to each other on this forum.
I can only presume it is caused by the detachment of writing this from behind a computer screen, because otherwise I dread to think what these people would be like in real life.
Magic is this how you speak to people face to face?
"Do you people not read?"
PS. Its Reining, not reigning...... ;)
 
magic104 said:
As you both seem to be so hung up over reigning here try this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzUgnhV-EU

I also repeat the videos are an example of COMMUNICATION & TRUST
Click to expand...

***NH Alert, I repeat, NH Alert!***

Why didn't that come with a warning, I don't like horse's windpipes squashed by white ropes around their necks, just letting you know this isn't everyone's cup of tea. Yes an example of communication, instead of a bit being used, windpipe squashing is practiced. Have you ever been on a horse that is peeing off with you? Try yanking on the martingale which will produce a similar action to the white ropes, my horse hates it so much he stops dead.
 
To be fair, Dotilas, that is not hire neck ropes, at least not used correctly. Have you ridden with one? Maybe your horse stops because that aid makes more sense to him?

I guess this is kind of my point. Yes, of course, it is perfectly valid to have opinions and express them, but why are horse people so quick to assume that anything that isn't exactly as they would do, is a necessarily abusive practice. Good and bad in all. Or at least that has been my experience. No, you don't need a bit to force a horse to do something and riding without one isn't proof of a training method. But choosing to test your skills that way doesn't make you a delusional idiot, either.

Magic, perhaps we got off on the wrong foot, although I was amused by the idea of you instantly assuming I'm an unsympathetic horseman on the strength of one post where I merely pointed out that reining may fulfil some obviously 'horse friendly' criteria - loose rein, relaxed head carriage - but in fact that end result can be produced by some very horse un-friendly practices. Such are the dangers of going by a few photos or videos or comments on the internet. ;)

I think there are a few other threads running currently where you might find some different views. :)

Anyway, it all comes out in the wash eventually. I think most people really are doing the best with what they know at the time. I shudder to think of some of the things I've done to horses in the past and I'm damn glad there aren't photos on the internet for all perpetuity!!
 
kirstie said:
Magic104, quite frankly you seem to have far too much time on your hands.

I watched a Carl Hester programme, showing valegro as a 6yo. He had canter half pass, canter pirouettes, 3 & 4x changes established. In short, he was more advanced at 6 than CS. Has he been ruined and rushed in your opinion? - Carl would have progressed at the horses pace, everything would be firmly established before they moved onto the next movement. I repeat Charlotte had enough concern for her youngster to give him time out to grow up after being "forced". Also both happen to ride in balance with their horses, something lacking for most riders!

Bearing in mind warmbloods mature much slower than tb's. - No they dont, their growth plates all develope in the same way. It is a myth that TB's mature quicker then WB's. It is considered that all horses are mature by 6yrs, that is all breeds. Mental maturity is down to the individual.

Most sharp horses thow a fit every now and again. If I backed off everytime my horse had a moment I would be lucky to trot round with no contact. - NOW & AGAIN. That is not the msg that is coming from "he wouldnt be him if we didnt have at least one episode of snake head and backwards bucking each week!"

Also, for the record, there is a lot more to dressage training than that of asking a horse to move over in it's stable...
Click to expand...
- No you dont say!
 
kirstie said:
I watched a Carl Hester programme, showing valegro as a 6yo. He had canter half pass, canter pirouettes, 3 & 4x changes established. In short, he was more advanced at 6 than CS. Has he been ruined and rushed in your opinion?
Click to expand...
If you're going to make a direct comparison between horses then perhaps you should do the same for the riders.

Bearing in mind warmbloods mature much slower than tb's.
Click to expand...
Not correct. And has been stated previously racing TBs are started under saddle before they're even 2.
 
BronsonNutter said:
If you are pro-choice about hat wearing, then why point it out in the first place? I'm pro-choice on a lot of things - abortion, contraception, religion etc, but if I were to call one of those choices selfish/stupid/irrepsonsible then others would assume (probably correctly, else why would I have said it!) that therefore I was NOT pro-choice. - Sorry of course it is not a selfish act to get on a horse who can play up without a hat. If you are injured your family wont be affected, you wont incure hospital treatment. No I can see that is not selfish, my mistake.



I have watched reining classes, and they put an awful lot of physical strain on the horse. I didn't realise they were quite so young though until TarrSteps mentioned it. - Oh dear another who does not read.

And I'm not a complete idiot - I do know that you don't ride by just pulling on a pair of reins ;) Infact, I used to jump my old horse without any tack (Did you know, riding without tack also invalidates your insurance with many companies? so all three of the riders in your videos are invalidating theirs! Yet another hypocritical point...) and this morning didn't even have to touch my horses mouth - despite having been hunting yesterday - and he hacked out beautifully with just the aids from my legs and seat. - Lucky for them they have a decent enough seat & have trained their horses so well. As these are demonstrations I am sure the insurance was looked into.

Are you arguing that CS was trained overnight? Because if you think he was, I'd sure like to send my horse to her for a day and end up with something that can compete successfully at advanced-medium :p - NO, I am saying that other people have voiced their concerns & been shot down despite their comments being valid. At 6 he has only just matured, if he is playing up on a weekly basis then something is wrong.

Any horse, even a 'trained' one, can freak out in certain circumstances. I've seen a certain 4*-winning eventer, whose been to the Olympics and other championships, having one of her advanced horses throw a complete fit in the warm up of an even because a door banged in the indoor arena. You can't really argue that that horse is not trained.
Also, even a trained horse can slip or stumble, especially when galloping in a tight arena. I've had a rotational fall on a very experienced jumping pony because his back leg slipped on take off as the surface was a bit loose. Even if you trust the horse not to deliberately try and deck you because you have a partnership, it doesn't mean that an accident won't happen. - Some horses have quirks partly helped by previous handling. Horses are born individuals but life experiences shape how they will re-act along with their basic instincts. We are not talking one offs, we are talking about a horse that is showing signs of not being happy on a regular basis, what part of this are you not getting?


Finally, I have NO idea what point you're trying to make either, so that makes two of us. I understand my point perfectly well though. I also don't see why you decided to drag up this thread which had been done to death and buried two months ago?
Click to expand...
- This has already been answered.
 
Pachamama said:
If you're going to make a direct comparison between horses then perhaps you should do the same for the riders.


Not correct. And has been stated previously racing TBs are started under saddle before they're even 2.
Click to expand...

All horses develope in the same way, their skelton development not maturing until they are about 6. Enough horses have been cut up & dissected to disprove that TB's mature in their skelton any quicker then any other breed,.
 
magic104 said:
All horses develope in the same way, their skelton development not maturing until they are about 6. Enough horses have been cut up & dissected to disprove that TB's mature in their skelton any quicker then any other breed,.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. AND they're backed younger.
 
TarrSteps said:
To be fair, Dotilas, that is not hire neck ropes, at least not used correctly. Have you ridden with one? Maybe your horse stops because that aid makes more sense to him?
Click to expand...

Sorry, feeling a bit opinionated today and couldn't be bothered to balance my post as I would normally do.

The point I was badly trying to make is that there are different methods of communication, and all have their pros and cons. There are different methods of training, all have their pros and cons. Also that for dressage a bridle has to be used, and the frame that the horses are showing in the video wouldn't be classed as correct, as it is not the same result as from classical training (badly phrased but I hope you know what I mean!). I was merely and badly trying to put across that in the video the method shown might not be as amazing as it initially seems. I.e. you shouldn't need to use bridle to get horse to perform movements shown in the video, they come from legs and seat anyway, and once learnt the horse will perform from command. I.e. the rein back command is the legs sliding back not pulling on the reins. My mum's horse will respond to voice command which was taught to him as he would be talked to every day whilst doing things such as opening gates. As in "woah, step up, back back back, move over, walk on, woah, move over, back back back, good boy". I think the video actually demonstrates that the bit is only really used to maintain contact and the "on the bit" frame, of course when the training is done and correct this can be the case.

I also didn't miss the fact that the riders in the video had bridle's on originally. So schooling with a bit can't be that evil. But I can say that it does take a special kind of horse. Plenty I know would be fine, but a few I have sat on just wouldn't understand/the spend so much time arguing black is white that they would do what they want anyway.

Martingale yank was when a pheasant had jumped up underneath horse, probably headbutted his belly! He leapt up in air, span and peed off in opposite direction towards home. Horse was a serial napper after he learned he could on one occasion. a different story and one that ended well, he wasn't listening to me at all, last resort neck strap and he was shocked back to his senses. It was probably very uncomfortable for him, but I wasn't being taken home! I tried jumping him bareback once actually, it didn't end well, just kept cantering around the field and didn't feel like stopping. As he was slowing though, my mum shook a feed bucket to distract him and he stopped dead and span, as you can imagine, I went flying!
 
Topaz Tiger said:
It never fails to amaze me how rude some people can be to each other on this forum.
I can only presume it is caused by the detachment of writing this from behind a computer screen, because otherwise I dread to think what these people would be like in real life.
Magic is this how you speak to people face to face?
"Do you people not read?"
PS. Its Reining, not reigning...... ;)
Click to expand...

Yes I am well known for being upfront. And if you were here I would tell you that you are petty with your "PS. Its Reining, not reigning...... ;)" As mis-typing, spelling errors litter this thread as they do on most posts. "Do you people not read?" It is a valid question, considering people were asking the same question despite it being answered on the first post. I will be at the stallion show at Addington in Feb, please feel free to continue the conversation.
 
magic104 said:
All horses develope in the same way, their skelton development not maturing until they are about 6. Enough horses have been cut up & dissected to disprove that TB's mature in their skelton any quicker then any other breed,.
Click to expand...

This isn't true with dog breeds though, which is why I think it must apply to horse breeds too. If horses were one species that had not been selectively into performance breeds then I think your point would be correct. I'm not convinced however.

Edit: Would love to read the results of this study, I will try and find it elsewhere.
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/livsci/article/S1871-1413(11)00230-7/abstract
 
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Booboos said:
:eek: That is probably one of the ruddest comments on HHO at the moment and all because PS dared share her photos and training ideas with everyone. You should apologize to her.
Click to expand...

It may be rude but there is a valid point to be made, it just could have been worded a bit better!
 
Dotilas said:
This isn't true with dog breeds though, which is why I think it must apply to horse breeds too. If horses were one species that had not been selectively into performance breeds then I think your point would be correct. I'm not convinced however.

Edit: Would love to read the results of this study, I will try and find it elsewhere.
http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/livsci/article/S1871-1413(11)00230-7/abstract
Click to expand...

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf there are others but I just dont have anymore time for this. Also our yard owner has a son who is an equine vet, my own vets have also confirmed that the growth plates develope the same & it is the ones in the kneck, I believe by the withers that close last. Also the horses mouth is also developing in that teeth are being replaced etc. Therefore it is considered rightful thinking that horse are mature at about 6. What you do with your horses is your business at the end of the day. Just because others feel the need to point out that if this horse in particular is playing up on a regular basis that there MIGHT be an underlying problem, DOES not make their views any less worthy then the "Wow what a wonderful job you are doing" crowd. He has had a training problem from his racing days, & so far he has been labelled as difficult, un-geniune etc. There are people who are just sugesting there MIGHT be a reason. I have repeated myself, because there are those that are just not getting it. This horse might just not like being told what to do, it is possible, unlikely but possible. Some horses are more sensitive & less forgiving. Proof that some horses will put up with out cr$p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMiCyoRzYM&feature=share he is quiet a young horse & no he is not an English rider.
 
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