Pics for earlier hoof cracks thread

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saddlesore

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This is the offending foot. It's the crack in the centre that's the problem, there is a small hole on the sole at the toe that meets the crack. I thought popped abscess, farrier says seedy toe.

Any thoughts re hoof shape etc greatly appreciated!
 
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Are the front feet the same size? Maybe its the photo angle, but the near fore looks bigger.

From the front, the cracks look similar to those in my filly, who had seedy toe. They were like the tip of an iceberg, though, as there was a lot of infection lying hidden underneath.

I can't make out from the sole pic where the cracks are.
 
I'd look at the horse's diet but also get a roll put on those hooves to reduce the amount of stress on the flared walls until better hoof can grow down.
 
Gloi said:
I'd look at the horse's diet but also get a roll put on those hooves to reduce the amount of stress on the flared walls until better hoof can grow down.
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This.

I replied on your thread in Tack room, there's a link worth a read.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Are the front feet the same size? Maybe its the photo angle, but the near fore looks bigger.

From the front, the cracks look similar to those in my filly, who had seedy toe. They were like the tip of an iceberg, though, as there was a lot of infection lying hidden underneath.

I can't make out from the sole pic where the cracks are.
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Just a bad photo- they are a matching pair :-p how did you get the seedy toe diagnosed and treated? Farrier says it's seedy toe but where from here? Do I need to get the vet to X-ray?

I'm trying to treat the infection with Milton and data life hoof disinfectant. Also just got some artimud. I've ordered forage plus summer hoof but don't have it yet.
 
If it's seedy toe, then all the infected crud must be cut out back to healthy hoof. The crud is a smelly black crumbly mess. In my filly's case, it was so extensive that it was a vet job including x rays. If yours has only a minor case, then hopefully your farrier can cut it back, you can treat with Milton, and you are away.

My farrier told me that mine was a vet job, and the vet agreed. Can't post pics, but it was very extensive.

She's been on Pro hoof for a year now, since I started lurking on HHO, and her feet are much improved, and the flare has gone.

Good luck.
 
Thanks . Farrier hasn't mentioned cutting anything out - he just says he wants to shoe then score across the top of the crack really deeply? He's not really listening that I don't want to shoe and not really offering me alternatives :-( getting the vet out to do his teeth soon so I'll ask them to take a look.
 
saddlesore said:
Thanks . Farrier hasn't mentioned cutting anything out - he just says he wants to shoe then score across the top of the crack really deeply? He's not really listening that I don't want to shoe and not really offering me alternatives :-( getting the vet out to do his teeth soon so I'll ask them to take a look.
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I'm no farrier but I don't believe it's necessary to make cuts or shoe etc. cracks mine have had have grown out with decent trimming and or changes to diet. You cannot get the crack to fully mend, it has to grow out with good diet. Consider a second opinion if the vet is of the same mind as the farrier. Try not to panic, it takes a bit of time to grow out.
 
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If they are just superficial cracks, then fully agree that they can grow out. Good diet and appropriate supplementation are key.

If, however, there is a seedy toe infection, then that must be sorted first or they won't. Seedy toe likes nothing better than to burrow deeply and make itself comfortable.

My farrier and vet regularly work in tandem, indeed the farrier shoes the vet's horses. There are no egos to tip toe around, each respects the others expertise. They jointly deal with a few seedy toe cases a year.
 
I definitely think it's seedy toe- farrier said it was and the more I look at it the more likely that seems. I'm going to get him on the minerals ASAP and start treating the infection more aggressively . I've ordered those plastic syringes to get the Milton to flush right up the hole at the toe.
 
The bacteria that will be causing the trouble are anaerobic, thus if they are in an enclosed environment they will multiply.
Therefore the best and first thing I do when confronting any possible bacterial infestation is to try and expose the area to the air, it is then a question of keeping the area clean and not covered with any : dressing, cream, packing or anything that will form the very conditions that caused it in the first place.
Flushing with a Milton solution, letting it dry, then an iodine solution before turning out seems to work for my clients.
Then of course it is time to work out why there has been separation in the first place.
Diet is the most common, then conditions, then not so favourable advise and or trimming
I would always inform the vet of what I would like to do, plus make sure the horse has an up to date Tetanus jab.
 
Iodine will kill the bugs, but it also damages healthy horn. I've seen many hood cracks grow out by flushing with a Milton solution, leaving to dry and plugging with Red Horse Hoof Stuff - it should stay in for a few weeks and is antibacterial so will kill the bugs while allowing new heathy horn to grow down.
 
Heelfirst said:
The bacteria that will be causing the trouble are anaerobic, thus if they are in an enclosed environment they will multiply.
Therefore the best and first thing I do when confronting any possible bacterial infestation is to try and expose the area to the air, it is then a question of keeping the area clean and not covered with any : dressing, cream, packing or anything that will form the very conditions that caused it in the first place.
Flushing with a Milton solution, letting it dry, then an iodine solution before turning out seems to work for my clients.
Then of course it is time to work out why there has been separation in the first place.
Diet is the most common, then conditions, then not so favourable advise and or trimming
I would always inform the vet of what I would like to do, plus make sure the horse has an up to date Tetanus jab.
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Thanks :-) his diet isn't bad but obviously lacking so I have ordered minerals. His diet is grass (mud really) during the day, in at night with haylage. Fed dengie good doer, fast fibre, pink powder and hoof supplement.

I suspect this years mud has been a major contributor, however it's a long running thing that farrier has been failing to address as he wants to shoe and I don't. He says only shoes will fix but I don't see how that can be the case?
 
saddlesore said:
Thanks :-) his diet isn't bad but obviously lacking so I have ordered minerals. His diet is grass (mud really) during the day, in at night with haylage. Fed dengie good doer, fast fibre, pink powder and hoof supplement.

I suspect this years mud has been a major contributor, however it's a long running thing that farrier has been failing to address as he wants to shoe and I don't. He says only shoes will fix but I don't see how that can be the case?
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Dengie Good Doer is molassed and has mould inhibitor added, for a sensitive horse it can cause problems like yours. Why the pink powder plus a hoof supplement? He's only a 2yo isn't he, and a cob? Does he really need all that? I'd ditch all the supplements, clean and pack with hoof stuff, ditch your farrier (shoeing a 2 yo? Really?!), get a decent farrier/trimmer to address the flare, and see what happens. Sometimes you can go on adding supplement after supplement and it makes the situation worse! Grass and hay should be all a youngster needs, add minerals if it it doesn't cope with just that.
 
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Wow that's not good news about the dengie!! Can you recommend an alternative? I put him on pink powder coz he had a bit of a runny bum on the haylage and foot supplement coz they weren't looking great.

I'd feel so bad changing farrier but think I might need to see if I can. He's the only one that comes to our yard though.

And yes he's a 2yo cob! I was as shocked as you believe me!
 
Halley's do a plain Timothy chaff but tbh I'd cut the bucket feed for now and see if taking everything out makes a difference. Squitty bum should improve by swapping the haylage to hay. Grass, hay and a salt lick (pink Himalayan ones are good) should provide everything a youngster needs. If the feet deteriorate more once you've taken all the supplements out (give it a couple of months to see though) then add in a mineral supplement like the one from Forage Plus. If you have to stick with the same farrier for yard reasons, then just be firm that you do not want him shod. It really would not help the seedy toe at all, believe me! As soon as you've got his diet right and treated the crack it should sort itself and grow out pretty quickly :)
 
Could you buy your own supply of hay? I'd have thought haylage was too rich. Hay, limited grass, and a broad spectrum balancer such as bailey's Lo Cal would be my advice - but if in doubt, get a nutritionist to advise.

I'd also be looking at getting a professional and recommended barefoot trimmer to come and have a look. Those hooves look pretty flared to me, and that's going to cause separation and allow in infection. I don't think your farrier is trimming correctly. I also don't think that hacking bits out of the hoof and carving lines in to stop the crack spreading are the way to go. Please, please get a second opinion from someone experienced in barefoot!
There is a product called Clean Trax which I've been advised will sort out seedy toe or white line disease very reliably.
Good luck.
 
Soaking won't help, I don't think it's advisable to soak haylage anyway as its more likely to go 'off'. As above, try and buy your own hay in (unfertilised meadow hay if you can get it) and seriously think about getting another farrier/trimmer in to look at his feet. Whatever you do don't let him do a resection. Scoring the wall also won't help, it can just allow infection in even further up the wall. Hope you can get it sorted :)
 
Trim needs addressing mechanical forces cause these. Cotton wool soaked in TTO oil is good for addressing the seedy toe while you address the hoof balances issues causing the cracking in the first place. Id be looking for a different person to do the horses feet seeing as your current one won't take any of your concerns on board.
 
Sadly hay really isn't an option. I think you're l right though re trim etc. I've been unhappy with it and letting it go as I've used the same farrier for 20 years but he's really not listening :-(
 
Why isn't hay an option? I'd never give my barefoot good do-er haylage, and if I couldn't feed him hay at a particular yard I'd have to move. Hay is the most basic food you can give to a horse. I can't think of a reason not to feed it except in case of extreme dust allergy, and even then you can soak/steam it. Seriously, feeding haylage to a good doer cob just isn't suitable OMO.
 
Just had another look at the pictures. You can see on the pic of the sole that there is far too much wall being left, causing the mechanical forces to lever away the wall and open up the white line.
I've only had horses for about 6 years, but I've learned a huge amount in that time, and particularly about barefoot management. My limited experience of farriers is that (most? many?) of them don't really see barefoot as a viable way to go despite huge evidence to the contrary. They simply don't take it seriously. I feel its seen as "between shoes" or "before shoes" or retired to the field, and they don't seem to know how to trim for function and performance. OP, you say you've used the same farrier for 20 years so I guess he puts on a decent shoe and he's maintained soundness in your horses. But have you used him for a barefoot horse before this one?
 
Landcruiser said:
Just had another look at the pictures. You can see on the pic of the sole that there is far too much wall being left, causing the mechanical forces to lever away the wall and open up the white line.
But have you used him for a barefoot horse before this one?
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That's very interesting what you say about the sole- what would need to be done trim wise to address that?

I tried, without success, to take my last horse barefoot. I also felt I wasn't being listened to then......

Hay isn't an option as it's about £8 a small square bale here! He's in overnight- full time for next two weeks to really set about this hoof- so I'd be 2 or 3 a week. I have no storage so would need to pay delivery charges each week in top of that adding up to WAY more than haylage. It just isn't financially viable :-((
 
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