PICTURES Wither wound.. will it ever get better??

A stab in the dark guess, could hibiscrub in the wound 3 times a day be inhibiting healthy tissue?
 
Not sure if it applies to horses but in humane they do gentamycin levels to check they are getting a therapeutic dose and its extremely toxic to the kidneys, google it. Taking a wound swab even if you have started antibiotics is usually done and then if the swab comes back and the bacteria grown are resistant they can be changed.
I know wound management is really hard in the real world but I think but I would ask for a referral to an equine hospital or vet school, even have an xray of the area to see if there is a foreign body or pocket of pus that needs draining. Sometimes you just need someone who has a better overview.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Any ideas how deep the wounds are? Just from experience, a 2 inch deep cavity took 4 months to heal and that was indeeper, bile area. Possibly these wounds may take less time. The one on the left is looking good. You've come a long way from the original injury. Whatever you're doing seems to be working, you just have to be patient. One day, you'll look and be amazed at it sealing up. Be patient, this will come right.
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The cavity isn't deep, it is subcutaneous, but the diameter is large.. maybe six to eight inches. The vet thinks that the initial infection went deeper, the tissue died and left a cavity... or words to that effect.

I am glad you think it is looking better.. makes me feel reassured to hear people say that. I have just been in touch with the vet who thinks it is slowly going in the right direction.

She has advised me to change the site of Injections now to give the neck a rest... which is what somebody mentioned earlier.

so we keep going for now....
 
I think it would depend on the owner as to whether the horse was hospitalised.

blitznbobs I have a query! I remember years ago when doing vet work experience a slow dissolving antibiotic capsule being put into rabbit tooth abscess holes post draining does that other get used in humans (not sure if used in other animals?)

OP I would want a culture swab taking though, but am a microbiologist so I would!
 
Wounds are sometimes packed with antibiotics but it's rare these days . Cement for joint replacement is antibiotic in many recipes.usually the treatment is washing it out... With betadine or chlorhexadine or hydrogen peroxide or water depending on lots of things - teeth I know nothing about - Drs learn nothing about teeth - that's what dentists are for
 
MDB - I think it looks a lot better than when you first posted photos. You are doing a great job and know how disheartening these wounds can be. I feel your pain with the AB injections. My mare used to tense her bum so much I broke needles on her. In the end I distracted her and husband did the injections as I used to dither a bit too much giving her time to tense her muscles despite changing the injection site every time - she was too clever and I am useless with needles.
 
blitznbobs said:
Wounds are sometimes packed with antibiotics but it's rare these days
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Turmeric could be used, not sure if your vet will have heard of packing a wound with it. It has antiseptic properties and would have the benefit of keeping other things out.

Look on the bright side, the timing is decent, high summer would have been horrific.

Honestly, it's looking loads better. I did injections mostly in the bum, although I found the neck easier. As it's not intravenous injections, I don't think it's an issue.
 
I'm another one who thinks the wound itself looks a lot healthier and looks like it is healing. The continued gunkpus would concern me and I'd check with the vet, (have you emailed them these pix?) but it may just be there's lots in there to come out.
 
blitznbobs said:
Wounds are sometimes packed with antibiotics but it's rare these days . Cement for joint replacement is antibiotic in many recipes.usually the treatment is washing it out... With betadine or chlorhexadine or hydrogen peroxide or water depending on lots of things - teeth I know nothing about - Drs learn nothing about teeth - that's what dentists are for
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I'm pretty sure I had some sort of antibiotic infused packing in a temporary filling. I went to the dentist with a sensitive tooth, he found I needed a root canal so I had a temp filling until it could be done properly. The antibiotic packing was keeping infection at bay but didn't kill it so when I had it removed and the root canal put in I ended up with an abcess under the filling. It was AGONY! Had a really strong dose of antib's and some morphine based painkillers which were great at klling the pain but made me feel sick.
 
SusieT said:
A horse requiring IV antibiotics would normally be hospitilised- allowing catheters, monitoring, change in treatment as necessary. Treating in an open field seems an odd way to do it - rain/mud etc. won't be helping?
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My old boy had a very nasty wound to his fetlock about six years ago. Almost down to the bone. He was treated in the field with IV antibiotics and pain relief, and he healed fine. It depends on the horse, the wound, the owner and the vet.
 
IMO it is looking a lot better than it was. Yes, the presence of pus still would concern me too but you seem to be working very closely with your vet so I am sure together your mare will come right. Well done so far and it is interesting to see the progress.
 
A couple of years ago I had a nasty abscess on my back, I had to be admitted to hospital. I had IV antibiotics all night and all the next day while I waited for a slot in surgery but they didn't do anything. After they drained the abscess it left a big hole! I had to have it packed with some kind of silver based stuff and covered with a dressing. I had to have it changed every day by the district nurse. They rinsed it with saline each time they removed the old dressing. It gradually healed from the inside, probably took a couple of months in total.

Don't know if they could do something similar for your horse?
 
Iodine is a very underrated product. We used it in hospital in a pressure sore which had become a cavity and was constantly oozing pus. It cleared up. Can the horse get oral antibiotics and Danilon? I don't think horse owners would be allowed to give IV meds-though stand to be corrected. I also had a horse with a stubborn wither wound and after surgery it did heal but it took a long time. When cleaning you have to be really careful and not sure how you are cleaning but we used irrigation with saline and that works well as flushes debris away without damaging healing tissue.
 
horsemadmum1 said:
Iodine is a very underrated product. We used it in hospital in a pressure sore which had become a cavity and was constantly oozing pus. It cleared up. Can the horse get oral antibiotics and Danilon? I don't think horse owners would be allowed to give IV meds-though stand to be corrected. I also had a horse with a stubborn wither wound and after surgery it did heal but it took a long time. When cleaning you have to be really careful and not sure how you are cleaning but we used irrigation with saline and that works well as flushes debris away without damaging healing tissue.
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Thank you everybody for all your comments. In response to your query horsemadmum, i am cleaning the drainage incisions with swabs to keep them open and then using a 50ml syringe to flush out the two drainage sites several times. I am removing all the crusty bits from the rubber band and making sure the band is free and loose and not becoming adhered to tissue underneath.

The vet taught me how to do the IV injections when we were inundated with snow because the roads became inaccessable for several days. The snow has now cleared up but the vet is happy for me to continue to give the injections and do wound care. It is also saving a daily call out fee which would be mounting costs quite a rate. As long as I am doing a good enough job then I am ok continuing with it.

I am now giving injections into the croup to give the neck a rest. Haven't spoken to the vet yet today to discuss swabs. But will do later.

Thanks again everybody for all the comments!
 
all sounds good OP and your vet seems on the case and has seen the wound first hand, as I said the pus at this stage would worry me but your vet is the best one to listen to.
I don't think a 'layman' is allowed to give anything IV but at the start with snow on the ground etc someone had to do it and it was possibly in the horses best interest to make sure you could in case the vet could not attend-possibly not a great idea to put it on here though?
Good luck with it all-constant nursing can become very tiring but so worth it in the end
 
Are you giving the injections into the muscle or into the vein? Your posts seem to indicate that you are giving IM (intramuscular) rather than IV (intravenous) injections if you are now `giving injections into the croup to give the neck a rest`. Just wondering!
 
I'd suggest that you pack it with Activated Manuka Honey. We had a horse at the racing stables that had bolted and taken out a gate post. She had a massive deep wound in her chest with a split from the wound down and around the inside of her leg. The wound was washed twice daily with. Saline and then packed with the honey.

We used supermarket Manuka Honey, just make sure that it comes from New Zealand and is Activated. I know some will insist you must use medical grade because it's been sterilised. NZ has been using it for a decade or more with no problem.
 
MDB, you sound very sensible, caring and dedicated to the treatment. PLEASE treat any and all (including my own) suggestions for alternate therapies with extreme caution - your vet is the one who will advise you the best as she/he will be monitoring the actual rate of progress, or otherwise. Putting weird and wonderful things anywhere near a wound of that severity and complexity should be thought about long and hard, you could very easily have a severe mess on your hands! Keep doing what you are doing - it is working, if slowly.
 
sula said:
Are you giving the injections into the muscle or into the vein? Your posts seem to indicate that you are giving IM (intramuscular) rather than IV (intravenous) injections if you are now `giving injections into the croup to give the neck a rest`. Just wondering!
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Ah yes, this!
 
sula said:
Are you giving the injections into the muscle or into the vein? Your posts seem to indicate that you are giving IM (intramuscular) rather than IV (intravenous) injections if you are now `giving injections into the croup to give the neck a rest`. Just wondering!
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The OP explained some time ago that she was struggling to inject IV as the mare had become very sensitive, the vet has now suggested to continue but to do them, not the bute, by IM now in the croup to rest the neck.

The OP is based in Spain where the rules regarding injecting may differ from ours, she is following advice given and the wound is improving, I think the OP is expecting it to heal more rapidly than it is, having seen how deep and infected it was I think it is going the right way, maybe it would have been better to go into a hospital for treatment but we have no idea what facilities are available in rural Spain, the vet seems more than competent and is getting daily updates and photos from the OP who is also doing a great job.
 
Thank you for answering on behalf of the OP. There was no criticism implied within my question; I am simply asking for clarification for reasons of personal interest. The OP is indeed doing a great job.
 
sula said:
Are you giving the injections into the muscle or into the vein? Your posts seem to indicate that you are giving IM (intramuscular) rather than IV (intravenous) injections if you are now `giving injections into the croup to give the neck a rest`. Just wondering!
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sula said:
Thank you for answering on behalf of the OP. There was no criticism implied within my question; I am simply asking for clarification for reasons of personal interest. The OP is indeed doing a great job.
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I didn't sense any criticism in your question but as she was offline felt it needed clearing up, she has done several threads and the facts can get rather muddled, she is doing well but is needing some support as I think there is no one locally that she can get to support her other than her OH and the vet.
 
Cortez said:
MDB, you sound very sensible, caring and dedicated to the treatment. PLEASE treat any and all (including my own) suggestions for alternate therapies with extreme caution - your vet is the one who will advise you the best as she/he will be monitoring the actual rate of progress, or otherwise. Putting weird and wonderful things anywhere near a wound of that severity and complexity should be thought about long and hard, you could very easily have a severe mess on your hands! Keep doing what you are doing - it is working, if slowly.
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^^^ THIS^^^
 
If the vet will prescribe medical grade manuka then go for it. My old ancient Welsh has had two similar pus draining wounds since I've owned him. The first ones on his neck we flushed with saline once or twice a day and it was a long old job to heal. The second one was under his eye and reaching it with a syringe to flush was going to be difficult and dangerous for him and us, medical grade manuka was supplied and smearing a little on each hand so that whilst he was distracted licking the honey off one hand whilst the other was applying it to the wound worked very well and the wound healed very much faster than anyone expected.

If your vet can't or won't prescribe then stick with the treatment suggested. It looks to be starting to heal nicely to me.



If you want to try grocery manuka on a wound I'd suggest you start off on a patient covered by the NHS. So much less personally expensive if you have to have any exotic new infections tested.
 
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OP it's sounds like you are doing a great job. This type of wound takes ages to heal.

If you are unhappy with the way things are going maybe ask for a referral to an Equine hospital.

A cautionary tale based on my own experience. My pony was treated at the RVC for a wound which became very infected over the space of 24 hours. She had x-rays etc to check for foreign bodies then stayed in for IV antibiotics. She came home after a week and when my vet was changing her dressing a few days after this she squeezed a piece of post and rail about the size of my nail out of the wound, this wasn't detected despite thorough investigation until the swelling and infection had subsided.
 
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