Pinning ears when touched on chest/base of neck

[BBP]

I keep trying to take a break from all social media and just enjoy my horses, but I’m in need of some hive mind thoughts, in a bit of a lonely place, and sometimes you guys get me thinking outside my usual box.

Apparently I’m f’ing up horses left right and centre. Baby Connemara with his clunky flippy nuchal ligament and hiccups and now little Arab super over reactive to touch under her neck. Ear pinning and snakey face. Too sweet to bite but if she was a different horse she would be taking chunks out of me when I rug her. I’ve left them off as long as possible but she is shivering in the mornings now the temps have dropped. Previous owner assured me she was always fine to rug. BBP used to flinch when his chest was touched when he had ulcers, and it went away when they did. Vet agreed to treat for ulcers without scoping, as she didn’t eat much for the first few weeks here, despite 24/7 access to whatever she wanted, she was too busy keeping an eye on everyone and everything to settle. So she has seemed pretty classic. If it is ulcers causing the hypersensitivity to touch, how long would you expect it to take before you see some improvement? She has had a few weeks of gastroguard so far and just started sucralfate. Not optimal treatment conditions as rarely given on empty stomach.

I’m also looking at osteopath and massage therapist, as she is pretty jammed up and hypertonic in her neck, so it’s hard to know how much is because she is so compressed in front, potentially messing with the innervation and nervous system. Notably she has a club foot, and it is evident that she grazes in a giraffe like split stance with the club foot back, as her neck is so short vs her leg length.

Any other thoughts on horses that hate being touched on the chest?

It hasn’t escaped me that my horses all have issues, with means I’m probably doing something really wrong. No chance of backing either horse until I get their issues resolved.

 

[poiuytrewq]

That was supposed to be a care not a love.
I don’t know what your horses problem is but I totally understand the there’s something wrong with every horse I own thing..
You are not f’ing your horses up. I feel like there are so many owners and people that just don’t see issues or listen to their horses. I’m thinking this more and more at the moment..
No horse is perfect all the time, no owner is but the ones that listen probably just appear to have more issues because they are not ignoring the signs.

 

[shortstuff99]

One of mine doesn't massively like being touched on the chest but never could get to the bottom of it. Vet came and poked it and she never reacted, no ulcers couldn't find anything. So just went with she just didn't like it

 

[BBP]

One of mine doesn't massively like being touched on the chest but never could get to the bottom of it. Vet came and poked it and she never reacted, no ulcers couldn't find anything. So just went with she just didn't like it

It’s just so out of character with the rest of her demeanour, she is like a little ray of sunshine until you get to her chest. Very extreme change.

I found a dissection video the other day about a horse with hiccups (whilst researching my gelding), the mare would get hiccups when her right hind was lifted. Turned out she had a bit of omentum that had spun around itself to create a cord, and adhered itself to the diaphragm, right over a branch of the phrenic nerve. It just made me realise how many things can be going on that we will never have a clue about.

 

[Boulty]

I’d get someone who does myofascial release type stuff out & see how she is after tbh if you’re thinking she’s carrying muscular issues in her neck as well. It could be as a result an injury of some sort (am I right in thinking there were some comings together with your gelding when trying to introduce them?) or could be something else that needs looking into. But yeah I’d see if it improves with massage/ physio / osteo and then see where you are.

Mine does all kinds of crap to himself when turned out and most of the time after a physio session or two he’s ok again (existing back issues notwithstanding)

 

[BBP]

That was supposed to be a care not a love.
I don’t know what your horses problem is but I totally understand the there’s something wrong with every horse I own thing..
You are not f’ing your horses up. I feel like there are so many owners and people that just don’t see issues or listen to their horses. I’m thinking this more and more at the moment..
No horse is perfect all the time, no owner is but the ones that listen probably just appear to have more issues because they are not ignoring the signs.

I sort of hope that’s right. I see sooo much more than I used to, poor posture, bracing, lameness, pain face indicators etc. When I was younger and out enjoying my horses, I probably didn’t know enough to see what they were showing me.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I sort of hope that’s right. I see sooo much more than I used to, poor posture, bracing, lameness, pain face indicators etc. When I was younger and out enjoying my horses, I probably didn’t know enough to see what they were showing me.

Same. Sometimes I wish I could go back to being super ignorant and not stressing all the time.

 

[BBP]

I’d get someone who does myofascial release type stuff out & see how she is after tbh if you’re thinking she’s carrying muscular issues in her neck as well. It could be as a result an injury of some sort (am I right in thinking there were some comings together with your gelding when trying to introduce them?) or could be something else that needs looking into. But yeah I’d see if it improves with massage/ physio / osteo and then see where you are.

Mine does all kinds of crap to himself when turned out and most of the time after a physio session or two he’s ok again (existing back issues notwithstanding)

She got kicked on the butt and the knee by the other mares, but that’s it (haven’t let her in with the thug). I think the neck is more of a longer standing thing, likely conformationally short to a degree, but showing three points of obvious hypertonicity (over c2, rhomboids in front of withers, and down at brachiocephalicus at base of neck). All her in hand work at the moment is about creating length, and trying to soften those areas. I’ll look for someone who can do myofascial work, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Identityincrisis]

My immediate thought was ulcers, unfortunately I can’t remember the timescale for when i had my Arab treated, but his were very mild anyway.

I think your on a decent track to be thinking about the neck and shoulder in an Arab, with their hyper vigilance and naturally high head carriage, i do find that is the first place tension builds. Mine has responded so well to Masterson Method. It’s such a gentle process that follows the horses lead. I got the book and dabbled but recently found a practitioner who has worked wonders

 

[meleeka]

My old mare has always hated her chest being touched in the 18 years I've owned her. I've no idea why! I have had many body workers and the vet see her (no x-rays though), a bute trial, all without any problems found whatsoever. She's happy to be touched anywhere else and will accept it with ears back if it's unavoidable (to do up rugs etc)Mostly I've just learnt to live with it as she wouldn't dream of biting. When doing up rugs I try and have it forward to do up so I don't actually touch her, then gently pull it back.

 

[Caol Ila]

No useful advice, but I think you are an amazing, observant horse owner.

 

[ThreeFurs]

Bit of a long shot, but was your mare's chest an injection site? I always give my senior wb gelding his Pentosan in his pectoral muscles [the chest 'boobs'] as a vet told me once these are smaller softer muscle than side of neck or rump for IM needles.

My old chap is very used to these and stands like a rock, but she may be expecting something unpleasant, and they can't really see what your doing there?
I've seen clicker training work well with very evasive, anxious behaviours [like hating being wormed] maybe an idea? x good luck

 

[gostelr]

My guy got like this likely when he slipped in the pasture in winter. My body worker gave me some exercises and stretches targetting his thoracic sling. It took quite a few months before he was back to normal.

 

[BBP]

My guy got like this likely when he slipped in the pasture in winter. My body worker gave me some exercises and stretches targetting his thoracic sling. It took quite a few months before he was back to normal.

You have just made me remember, on her third day here she broke through a gate and went running on the super slidey grazed down track system and decked herself. She could easily have wrenched her neck doing that. I’ll keep going with the ulcer meds as she is a prime candidate but will focus more on bodywork now. I hadn’t wanted to do it if she was in an acute stage of ulcers. I know this is where it would be best if I had scoped, but she had been through a lot of changes and I wanted to give her a bit of time.

 

[BBP]

Bit of a long shot, but was your mare's chest an injection site? I always give my senior wb gelding his Pentosan in his pectoral muscles [the chest 'boobs'] as a vet told me once these are smaller softer muscle than side of neck or rump for IM needles.

My old chap is very used to these and stands like a rock, but she may be expecting something unpleasant, and they can't really see what your doing there?
I've seen clicker training work well with very evasive, anxious behaviours [like hating being wormed] maybe an idea? x good luck

Good question about the chest jabs. Never with me, but I can find out about before.

I have just started target training my young gelding to help him lengthen through his neck and reduce the brace without any human touch (he was struggling with any pressure from the halter over his poll and was making negative associations with me and the headcollar), it’s making a visible difference already. So perhaps I need to apply similar thinking to the mare and her association to touch on her chest.

 

[BBP]

No useful advice, but I think you are an amazing, observant horse owner.

Thank you. It’s so hard not to feel the pressure with horses of 4 and 5 when you see other people’s progress, but I see zero point in trying to progress education in two horses who clearly don’t feel great. The mare I can do little bits with, the gelding I have just switched over to target training to improve his posture and relaxation as nothing I was doing so far has been helping him. I reckon he won’t be backed til much much later, if at all, and she will be nearly 6 if I work on her posture etc all winter.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sorry that you’re having a bit of a wobble with your lovely new mare.

I’d be getting my chiropractor vet in on this, it might well be a tweak that can be sorted. Maybe after a splat in the field or some other daft horsey thing.

I’m scratching my head now to think what the primary issue was, but my late homebred presented just like this a couple of times and the Chiro vet worked her magic and the soreness/reactivity went away.

 

[BBP]

Sorry that you’re having a bit of a wobble with your lovely new mare.

I’d be getting my chiropractor vet in on this, it might well be a tweak that can be sorted. Maybe after a splat in the field or some other daft horsey thing.

I’m scratching my head now to think what the primary issue was, but my late homebred presented just like this a couple of times and the Chiro vet worked her magic and the soreness/reactivity went away.

Thank you. I have an incredible osteopath but she is in the midst of some personal chaos so hasn’t been able to come out yet. She is top of my list as soon as she is free.

 

[Cloball]

Could it be something as simple as rug fit? Mine has a deep chest and doesn't wear a rug often but I tried one last year that seemed to fit but I think was uncomfortable when she grazed as a small patch of white hair popped out at the base of her neck on the underside where the rug sat so was clearly rubbing and causing some sort of discomfort.

 

[Trouper]

It sounds as if she has been quite tense in her early months with you so I guess anything could have triggered it but well done for observing so much in her. This may be quite a useless suggestion because I can't remember where you are based but Helen Coye (massage) and Tom Beech (Osteopathic Vet) often used to work together very successfully on cases like this. I can give you the number I last had for Helen if you would like it but you would probably find her on FB (which I don't do!). I hope you get some answers soon as she sounds like a lovely mare.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Everyone else has already given you plenty of sensible advice regarding the physical side of things, but have you tried asking for her permission before doing anything with the rug?

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

My old boy used to hate his chest being touched. Was fine everywhere else. Once he bit me hard on the back of my arm as I ducked under the door chain and I think it was because he thought I was going to touch his man-boobs. Never found anything wrong in that area. He had regular physio etc and lived happily until 27yrs. Always had to be careful to not surprise touch him in that area.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Bit of a long shot, but was your mare's chest an injection site? I always give my senior wb gelding his Pentosan in his pectoral muscles [the chest 'boobs'] as a vet told me once these are smaller softer muscle than side of neck or rump for IM needles.

My old chap is very used to these and stands like a rock, but she may be expecting something unpleasant, and they can't really see what your doing there?
I've seen clicker training work well with very evasive, anxious behaviours [like hating being wormed] maybe an idea? x good luck

Since Louis had 2 very bad reactions from vacinations in his chest area he objects to having rugs done up and generally doesn't like being touched there.

He has a patch of white hair where one was done and that swelled like the size of a melon.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

As you know both of my Arab's have 1 boxy foot in front Arabi's was worse when he was young, he is a bit lopsided because of it the other shoulder is over developed in comparison.

Worth checking that stand behind her on something so you can compare the shoulder.

His always needed regular physio and is always tight in the poll and base of his neck.

I wouldn't say your horse has a true club foot it's just more upright than the other

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Definitely worth continuing the ulcer meds though just a move can trigger them, being Arab's and sensitive change can upset them I always take precautions with my 2 in that sense.

 

[BBP]

Definitely worth continuing the ulcer meds though just a move can trigger them, being Arab's and sensitive change can upset them I always take precautions with my 2 in that sense.

I wish I had jumped on them as soon as she moved in. She never looked wildly stressed, just sort of busy and nosy and wanting to be in everyone’s business, but when you add up the time she spent not eating over a few weeks it was considerable.

 

[BBP]

Could it be something as simple as rug fit? Mine has a deep chest and doesn't wear a rug often but I tried one last year that seemed to fit but I think was uncomfortable when she grazed as a small patch of white hair popped out at the base of her neck on the underside where the rug sat so was clearly rubbing and causing some sort of discomfort.

I’ll bare it in mind, they look like they fit well, but I’ll keep an eye.

 

[BBP]

Everyone else has already given you plenty of sensible advice regarding the physical side of things, but have you tried asking for her permission before doing anything with the rug?

I try to be really mindful of all that sort of thing rather than just launching stuff at them. In my ideal world I would have more time to accept the no and just not rug until she is completely comfortable, but she was wobbling like a jelly the other morning so I’m having to do a bit of a compromise of acknowledging her discomfort and being as respectful of it as possible whilst still putting the rug on.

 

[BBP]

It sounds as if she has been quite tense in her early months with you so I guess anything could have triggered it but well done for observing so much in her. This may be quite a useless suggestion because I can't remember where you are based but Helen Coye (massage) and Tom Beech (Osteopathic Vet) often used to work together very successfully on cases like this. I can give you the number I last had for Helen if you would like it but you would probably find her on FB (which I don't do!). I hope you get some answers soon as she sounds like a lovely mare.

I keep trying to see if Tom will come to my yard, but he wants me to go to a clinic and I’m not good with driving the box and I think my gelding would be better treated at home so I’m waiting til my local osteopath has a bit of breathing room to come out.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Lots of good sugggestions already - if nothing else helps it could be well worth having some healing/energy work for her.

I have found that the chest is often an area where emotions which they can't process or let go of tend to just sit, and they feel the need to protect them and hence the area. (To be fair that's true of any area of their body, but it is quite often the chest.)