Places to XC school over large & technical fences in E.Mids. Help pls!

becca1305 said:
Thanks for the offer spotted cat :) that sounds good as I would like to have some support there so they can tell me how we can improve. Are you not going to use it then? I will look into that and Thistles suggestion of a clinic.
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Nope - I won it eventing there earlier this year, and whilst I will travel nearly 3 hours to an event, I draw the line at 6 hours in the box for a 1 hour lesson! Can you imagine how much I'd spend on diesel?! Let me know if you want it - whatever you decide Nigel and Ann have a great reputation, if I were closer I would be using it myself, but it's completely wasted on me! I was kicking myself because if I'd kicked on a bit and not had time I would have won £100 instead, which would not in any way have been wasted on me!!
 
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Ouch! diesel costs make me want to cry! I completely agree tho I go up to 1.5 hours unaffil PC up to 3 hours BE but I dont think anything could make me go 6 hours for a 1 hour lesson! I know the feeling, the commentator kept saying how fast I was at one event so I convinced myself I was going too fast took a steadier and ended up 2 secs over the time doh! cost me a place too tho luckily not first (or £100 :( ), thats the most gutting! yeh I will have a mooch at ALW website now and then will drop you a PM about it! thanks :D
 
meardsall_millie said:
OP - these are my 'musings out loud' on a drizzly morning to share with all the people on the forum who are likely to read this thread. It's not intended to be advice to you as you've stated you don't want it...... ;)

I'm with SC, HM12 and VGM on this.

To my mind, knowing whether you've got an Intermediate or Advanced eventer isn't about its ability to jump individual big fences. It's about carefully taking them through the grades, giving them sufficient experience at each level to ensure they (and you) have sufficient tools in the tool kit to deal with increasingly bigger and more technical stuff, together with increasing speeds at the higher levels.

You don't get this through going XC schooling and stringing together a few big fences to 'see what you've got'.

There's a reason why most schooling courses don't offer much above Novice level - for example, if you look at the options for schooling around Oasby after the BE event, the Intermediate course has been taken out.

What do others think?
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I totally agree I don't school my advanced eventer any bigger than Novice as to me it always about confidence building and not testing to see what I have underneath me. I do lots of technical fences in a school scenario to perfect turning, altering strides and jumping angles in an environment I can start off small and build up in height and the horse in confidence.

It is also difficult to school over anything bigger than Novice as to be honest I ride differently when my blood is up and I am jumping a planned course to that which I do when I am schooling. In schooling I want to teach the horse how to respond and the importance of listening to the rider, once on course I ride a little differently as the careful education I have given should have given the tools to complete the course clear.

Pippa who is a very scopey mare and well capable of jumping advanced sizes fences won her first points last weekend, this weekend I am taking her schooling and will probably do mainly BE100 fences to instill confidence and fine tune her for the next event.
 
thats fair enough. If I had a horse competing at advanced I would probably do the same schooling wise. I think what people have failed to grasp on this is that I want to do some harder questions as a one off making me and the pone more confident for when we do enter our first Intermed. I would think most people are similar on their musings about not needing to school big on a regular basis so there isnt anything to discuss there. It is about confidence building and getting some idea of how to cope with what to expect, we have done all the background work and after this we will drop back to schooling around BE 100 level. I just feel we need this (more me than her) to keep my confidence at tip top. I completely agree with everyone though in that arena schooling for striding is invaluable and it is not necessary (and in fact daft) to repeatedly school a horse over big xc courses.
 
I understand your reasoning but I think you're coming at it in slightly the wrong way.

I have an intermediate horse, we have jumped big fences out schooling twice- once beginning of season school, she'd done 3 intermediates at the tail end of the season before and was due to run IN the week after then I the next week so I needed her sharp and switched on- we jumped 1 intermediate hay feeder and 1 intermediate skinny combo, the rest all at PN/N

The 2nd time was the beginning of this year in a Yogi Breisner clinic where he built up gradually and I ended up jumping a big I bank complex, a difficult intermediate water and an intermediate sunken road.

I took her intermediate without schooling her over intermediate xc fences, she'd done her difficult novices and all was confident and good. She jumped round 3 of the 'simpler' intermediates as a 7yr old.
 
I completely get where you are coming from. Schooling wise that sounds exactly what I want to do. In an ideal world i would take my time at novice and then do some easy intermeds tho i still feel i would like to school once over the aspects you mentioned prior to going just for my confidence. However I may well have to sell her in spring and if so I would love to have a play over a couple of intermed skinny combos & the like so I have that experience for taking on a new horse :) and would also show a buyer who does not know her that she is capable as wouldnt have competed at that level as some proof for them. :).
 
a good trainer will, if s/he thinks you are up to it, build Intermediate and Advanced size and technicality of fences with showjumps in an arena - combinations, related distances, angles, skinnies. The fantastic thing about this is that if you do get it wrong (and god knows anyone can, experienced or otherwise) then they fall down. ;) ;)
as for schooling over Int/Adv fences when you haven't done more than, if I understand you right, one novice... umm, there's a reason why venues do NOT allow riders to practice over Advanced fences. your comments about "hoping to walk the course first" and "going back to walk between fences" actually make my blood run cold.
you can seriously test her scope and cleverness, and your accuracy, over fences that knock-down. honestly, it's much safer.
 
Becca, can I just ask what your BE record is? Or have you just done the one unaff 110cm track, not even round a BE course?

It's really exciting to have a very capable young horse but at the same time, if you don't have the experience yourself (think you are quite young?) it's very very important to get expert help and advice before rushing up the levels BE.

How is your dressage? Can you ride an Intermediate test wholly in sitting trot? You should be looking at competing at Medium dressage (even if it's unaff). What about SJ, are you competing Foxhunter and above.

Eventing is the whole picture not just jumping the occasional huge fence.

BTW the ground at Waresley is extremely well drained and we have been XC there when it's been too wet anywhere else so chances are you will get out on the XC, if not Nick will put up plenty to challege you in the arena, believe me!

MKEC is heavily used and the ground at the 3 day this wekend wasn't great apparently.
 
rhino said:
OP - can I just ask if it's the same mare as in these posts?

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=483501
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=482574

She's looks lovely but I agree with the others I'm afraid.
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Ah, it's the one that drifts right, then?

PLEASE please learn from my mistake here then. Seriously.
My good grey mare (siggy pic) who drifted right.. the first time I ever took her xc schooling (she'd SJ'd to Fox and Grade C before I bought her but never jumped a xc fence) she was great, a bit of drifting but not much, accepted correction, no run outs so i ignored it. jumped everything, bit of a battle to get her into the water but then fine, super over all PN and N ish fences. I'd schooled my other horse there under supervision (4* rider) so knew all the fences, or so i thought...
I'd produced my previous one to 2* so far so was convinced i knew everything.... yeah, right.
Instead of leaving it at that for the day, for some crazy reason i decided i wanted to jump the trickiest combination there, a big double of upright to corner, to finish.
jumped the first bit fine, she drifted/dived hard right, ignored my correction, jumped into the middle of the corner and tried to bounce out. crashed and burned - she hit it hard coming up and landed on her neck, i was thrown clear. she got up with her neck looking decidedly bent and i had to turn her in gentle circles for ages until she straightened out. ish.
Seriously, I was very very lucky not to kill my good brave horse because in my stupidity i overreached myself.
do your practising over (big) fences that fall down. honestly.
 
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Hmm, just looked at previous posts and assuming you're the same combination as in those, I also very much agree with the others I'm afraid.

Looks and sounds as though you're coming on great guns and it's great that you're both so confident at your current level but you really can't practice over large, technical and most importantly solid obstacles when you're low in mileage and experience, both personally and as a combination - I think it's asking for trouble and as you did ask the original question with your confidence in mind I think your plan could well end up having the opposite effect.

My OH rides from BE100 to *** level and even the higher level horses are never schooled XC over anything more than Novice, all the technical training with skinnies/combos/different lines etc is done with a trainer in the school at home, with fences that fall down.

Super well done for what you've achieved so far, its fantastic that you're getting on so well and the horse is an exciting prospect and I really don't mean to offer advice when it's not asked for but I'm just a little worried about your plans.
 
Everyone has their own opinion but for the last time Im really not interested. I want to go and do a xc schooling session that asks a bit more of my mare and makes us even more confident as a pair. Im not planning on rushing up the levels BE quite the opposite I have been taking my time. I merely want to go out and have a fun xc schooling session on my mare thats a little more testing. To reassure you lot no I am NOT planning on rushing up to intermediate level she will be taken very slowly and carefully up the levels just as she has been produced from the day I got her (well for as long as I have her anyway). Our DR and SJ needs more work before intermed level altho I am positive she is capable from what I have seen and felt, however as I say her XC is feeling AWESOME and I just want to go and have a play at some harder stuff as I will likely have to sell her in the spring. I am fully aware eventing is not just about jumping the odd fence and atm we seem to be operating well across the board (placed every time out). Sorry if anyone has got the wrong impression on the competition side I dont want to rush up to intermediate eventing as I say just have a fun day out xc. I have a horse to get enjoyment out of it, and whilst I dont want to scare her or over face her (hence why I will be very selective about what we jump) I dont see anything wrong with taking her to a bit more difficult/larger xc schooling session just to have a good time! Im not discussing this further as it is silly and pointless we are going to pop a few bigger/harder xc jumps for christ sake not saying we are preparing to enter Burghley! I think its sad that people are cynical about having an outing just for the sake of enjoyment (and the boost of confidence and knowledge).

PS Kerilli thanks for the story :) glad to know we arent all meant to be flawless! I am going to be really careful about what I jump and whilst in some respects I appreciate the concern of forum members such as yourself I just want to go and have some fun over stuff thats slightly harder than what we have been doing, and a few biggies just for fun :D (by biggies I mean straightforward single elements that ride well) I wouldnt even be contemplating if she was still drifting doing harder skinnies but we had the chiro out and shes all straightened out and been jumping perfectly straight (lots of hard, narrow and combination skinnies in event just gone all foot perfect :) ) *Sigh* all I want to do is go and do a couple of harder combination skinnies and maybe pop some lovely large gallopy fences its so blown out of proportion! Maybe the kind of fences I am thinking of are more hard novice than intermediate as I dont want to go much bigger with the skinny combinations just harder to get her thinking the reason I said intermed was because places ive been xc schooling with nov skinny combinations have all been rather easy.
 
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I think everyone on this forum is giving you very good advice and a lot speak from experience OP.

Why risk your horse and yourself by pushing yourselves way out of your current experience level.

There is a reason why you have to get 5 clears at Novice level before moving up to Intermediate. Go for a lesson with a good instructor and they can tell you whether your mare is talented or not. Jumping a couple of big fences is not the way to tell. Get your approach right and she may sail over, get it slightly wrong and you may be watching your horse leave the course in an ambulance or worse.

There's also a huge difference between jumping a 5ft hedge and a decent Intermediate/Advanced fence. The hedge is forgiving, the fixed XC fence is not.
 
This thread has now gone on for 5 pages and so far there is one person that thinks what you are planning to do is a good idea.

That is you.

Whether you are looking to move up the levels in eventing, or simply go out XC schooling once, what you are proposing to do is dangerous.

I would suggest you take Thistle's and/or Spottedcat's advice and ring either Nick Turner or Nigel Taylor - have a chat with them, tell them what experience you have and what you would like to do. When they've picked themselves up off the floor after listening to your plans, they will guide you in the right direction and arrange to give you a proper XC schooling lesson in a safe manner.


becca1305 said:
I just want to go and have a play at some harder stuff
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This one sentence from you scares me silly - you don't 'play at the harder stuff'. Ever.
 
becca1305 said:
Everyone has their own opinion but for the last time Im really not interested. I want to go and do a xc schooling session that asks a bit more of my mare and makes us even more confident as a pair. Im not planning on rushing up the levels BE quite the opposite I have been taking my time. I merely want to go out and have a fun xc schooling session on my mare thats a little more testing.
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This is wonky thinking. I'm a total novice but even I know that you are risking one hell of a lot (your life, your horse's life) for a "fun xc schooling session". I've now been XC 4 times (diddy jumps - 80-90cm) and each time has taught me more about how much I don't know. Yes, it's fun jumping the big fences when they go right but it's unbelievably scary jumping the small fences when they go wrong.

This comes not from many years of eventing experience (as I don't have them :D) but from sheer common sense: the margin for error gets smaller and smaller as the fences go up in size, and asking a young horse to do something to stretch them, when you are also inexperienced, often goes wrong. YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE A MISTAKE.

Please heed the sensible words of so many experienced riders on this thread, and if you want to push yourself, please do so under experienced tuition there at the time you are jumping.
 
its a figure of speech. obviously not literally "play" im not trying to sit her down and get her to make mud castles on the top of a corner. (funny as that would be :D). No I merely think people have got the wrong end of the stick; I am only looking to push up minutely from what we have done (apologies if I described this wrong in terms of "levels" intermed etc to school at but as I say all the 'Novice' xc elements were very easy tests at the courses we have been to). If I would have known it would be such a malarky with you lot I would have sat down and written more carefully Im just still delighted about her recent performance :D. So for the last time to one and all listening; I WANT TO DO COMBINATION FENCES SLIGHTLY HARDER THAN THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN DOING AND JUMP SOME BIG STRAIGHTFORWARD FENCES (like we have done before). If this doesnt relate it terms of being called Intermediate level then I am sorry but as I found xc schooling over tracks called Novice easy I assumed these would be called intermediate?. I am sensible & I am sorry if I gave anyone the impression I wanted to go and jump and entire Intermediate track! I do wish everyone would stop overreacting I am schooling Novice and wish to do some of the combination elements (nothing too nasty) of an Intermediate standard or even a harder Novice, it is a single step up Im not jumping from Intro to Intermed! Maybe I should have also mentioned we have already jumped a few solid fences bigger than novice level, and also have had a xc schooling lesson with instructor round PN & Novice and she said she looked as if she was finding it easy. I am very interested in doing it as part of a lesson with someone however I have no qualms about going it alone either and just being very sensible and careful. This is my final comment on the matter. I will be going in the next couple of weeks (hopefully) and will let you know how it goes :)
 
if you go to aston you will find all of one fence that matches your description of a bigger than novice single fence that you can ride forward at which is inadvertently a hedge with a ditch infront youd get better value for money and more fences of that description hunting especially being a leicestershire hunter i should know

you have done one unaffiliated novice equivalent and i know the course you did it at and its not a big one so maybe it has given you a false sense of security i think everyone has been very patient with you but i really think that based on what ive read you dont need to go and school big fences as i said the ones you want you will get out hunting and the technical elements can be done in an arena try getting yourself a lesson with claire lomas at aylesford or wymeswold as she does a lot of the lucinda style exercises getting you to do angles and turns and odd distances which does more for the horses confidence that firing it at a big table
 
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