Plait found in mares mane Beds/bucks/herts Borders Warning!!

[LynnWalker]

Debsam - I totally agree with everything you have said. Toby was stolen on 1/6/06 - and it is indescribable how I feel not knowing if he is alive or not. And yes I would also agree ( as a mum!!!!) it was almost like losing my child. He is part of our family, he is gone who knows where, my whole family were and still are affected by him not being here.
This feeling will never go away until he is found and we will always continue to look for him - my heart goes out to you you that this happened to your horse.

 

[*hic*]

[ QUOTE ]
A few of these subsequent 'comments' . . . . yadda yadda yadda. . . . . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminding people to check their security arrangements, freezemarking registrations, etc is valuable advice.


What you are doing is SCAREMONGERING.

Just stop to THINK about how the world has changed since your horse was stolen - not that you've claimed it was plaited I think - no-one in their right mind would plait a horse for identification. A simple cameraphone photo of the gateway and location together with a photo of the horse would do the job far more quickly and accurately.


I'm sorry for your loss - both that of your horse and of your mother. However, as someone who has experienced the loss of a horse, the loss of child and the loss of her mother and father (admittedly all by death, not theft) I would be interested to know whether you would claim that the loss of your horse was worse than the loss of your mother.

 

[dorani]

Janet George... you are on here yet your forum is closed unless folk pay I note? hypocrisy?

 

[Serenity087]

I still cannot believe you are honestly trying to compare the theft of an animal to the death of a child.

Some people are completely out of this world!

I'm afraid I didn't pay too much attention to your post because about 99% of it is emotive language trying to score pity for your situation.

On the off chance I did have a horse stolen, I can think of a million and one things more traumatic than losing an easily replaceable animal, and losing a child is one of them.

 

[netposse]

This horse may or may not have been marked for something in the future, and the horse could have gotten the mane that way on its own (ours do). However, there could be something going on here that is not natural. In the US we have seen all kinds of odd occurences before a horse disappears. We don't discount anything unusual for a horse owner. Our retired horses are in the field so it is usualy for our horses to get their manes like this from time to time. But, it may not be usual for you. Just keep an eye out. Put signs up like the WHOA signs we have here to warn people that your horses have identification and are traceable, even if they do not have ID.

View signs here: http://www.netposse.com/merch/paypal.htm

 

[DebbieCG]

Thanks Tubbytoby, I know we are both speaking from a mutually understood indescribable place and my heart also goes out to you in your search for Toby - hopefully you will and can find him.

Jemima_too - I am trying to keep my composure after reading your reply - it is obvious you have not read through all the replies here as you would clearly see it appears to be Harper_gal who initially started the whole 'scaremongering' aspect of this post with her fairly rude first reply to the initial poster. The initial poster was just seeking advice on her concern to what appeared to be a plait in her horse's mane, whether by wind or otherwise. And all reasonable viewpoints would indicate that this is not something to be concerned about. Therefore no 'scaremongering' going on.

However, being a reasonable person I would have to admit that I probably posted my personal experience of horse theft when it would have been better to do so on a different, more relevant post - something like 'How has your horse being stolen affected your life?'. I am not being sarcastic by the way. I think there are about 3 people who have posted on this thread who have had the awful experience of their horse being stolen (by the way I am not saying that is the worst thing to happen in the world) but all three of us know it is on a different dimension and therefore it is always hard to see comments that are dismissive of horse theft - hence why I posted my viewpoint.

I am sorry for your losses too. I have also experienced other losses in my family, as well as the loss of my mother. I think it would be universally agreed though that there is no greater loss than the loss of a child.

However, as you have asked, I will give you my honest answer to your question - I do regard, in respect of the overall effect that it has caused throughout my life, that the loss of my horse, because he was stolen (and did not die naturally or by accident) has been worse than the loss of my mother. I think my mother would understand what i have said, since she loved our horse as much as I did - his wellbeing was our main concern. To complicate things, my mother's longterm health was very much affected by our horse being snatched and spirited out of our lives (her health would not have been affected if we had lost him naturally). What it seemed to do though was break our spirit in life - the fruitless searching, the injustice of it, we received hoax calls - it was a desparate period and as a teenager at the time, I was witness to the nastier side of humanity, visiting where possible any horse markets and sales, hardly anyone would help us. In the end my parents did not have the time or money to keep on searching. The fear of whether to advertise that he was stolen or not, in case he was 'hot' property and may have been killed instead. Well, it was all soul destroying. And this is something I never usually mention - one or two month's after my horse was stolen, we had a phone call to say my wonderful first pony, who we had loaned, had died suddenly from a heart attack in his field (he was only about 13). We couldn't even cry or grieve about our pony (which normally would have been a great loss and shock) as we were so distraught after our horse had just been stolen, and not knowing whether our horse was alive or not or what was happening to him, or whether he was suffering, and I will always remember hearing my mother say about my first pony who had just died "that's alright, at least we know what has happened to him."

I will now refrain from posting any more replies on this thread, as in all fairness this is not the right post to do so on and I am at fault on that account, but not for 'scaremongering'. Viewpoints are just that, but rudeness can be avoided.

 

[cruiseline]

Horse can and do get stolen, even when they are safely (you would think) tucked away in their stables!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any changes, plaits, twists ETC should be taken seriously, very seriously, unless you want to join the I'VE HAD MY HORSE STOLEN group.

STOLEN 29TH/30TH DECEMBER 2009 FROM MANOR FARM STABLES, CHARLTON VILLAGE, MIDDLESEX

BAILEY:SKEWBALD TOBIANO, 8 MONTH OLD FILLY, 4 WHITE SOCKS, NO FACE MARKINGS, WHITE "SPLOGE" ON HER WITHERS-WITH ABOUT 2-3" OF WHITE MANE. APPROX 29-30" HIGH, MICROCHIPPED-958000001672766, WAS CLIPPED AT THE BEGINNING OF NOVEMBER-SO HER COAT IS STARTING TO GROW THROUGH.

TINKERBELL: FEW SPOT APPALOOSA, 2 YEAR OLD FILLY, PINK SPOTTED NOSE, APPALOOSA MARKING AROUND HER EYES, TEATS AND BOTTOM, 4 BLACK SPOTS ON HER OFFSIDE HINDQUARTERS, APPROX 31-33" HIGH, NOT MICROCHIPPED, HAS BEEN CLIPPED MID DECEMBER-EVERYWHERE WAS CLIPPED APART FROM 3 LEGS (HER FRONT NEARSIDE ONE IS PARTIALLY CLIPPED) AND HALF HER FACE, STRIPED HOOVES.

BOTH WERE STOLEN BETWEEN 7PM AND 7AM ON 29TH/30TH DECEMBER FROM THEIR STABLES. THEY BOTH HAD MATCHING NAVY BLUE COMBO RUGS ON MADE BY DINKY RUGS. BAILEY HAD A NAVY FLEECE ON MADE BY DINKY RUGS AND TINKERBELL HAD A RED RUG FLEECE WITH GOLD BINDING

CRIME REFERENCE NUMBER IS SL0910444

ANY INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT ANY OF THE FOLLOWING NUMBERS - SURREY POLICE ON 0845 125 2222 - CLAIRE ON 07870570586 - DANIEL ON 07738826953

 

[Tinseltoes]

Who in their right mind would tag a horse for all to see before stealing it????? Makes no sense at all!!!

 

[DebbieCG]

Correction - i hope this will be the last time I post on this thread.

In reply to Harper_gal - are you for real or are you trying to provoke? You should read things more carefully, then you wouldn't misunderstand and TWIST the viewpoints being made.

There is one thing I would agree with you though, yes some people are completely out of this world, you certainly got that right.

Perhaps I could send you a copy of the documentary 'The Horse Detectives'. No doubt you would have something sophisticated and erudite to say about all of the self-pitying people filmed on it.

I haven't really met a genuine horse owner who has ever expressed that their much loved animal is easily replaceable - why on earth are you on this forum? Actually, I hope you don't reply as it would only be shock tactics - you certainly have a way of expressing on a low level.

 

[netposse]

Yes, they do. And in the USA not only are they being stolen out of their stalls, in one of our states they are being butchered for their meat as well. There have been 22 horses in one area of FL that have been found butchered, several while in their stalls.

In the USA, through our research we have found the following to be the places that horses are stolen from in this order:
1. Pasture
2. Barn
3. Public event

 

[netposse]

Many of the things that dishonest criminal minds think do not make sense to honest people. I have unfortunately learned how to think like a criminal at times. I never underestimate their creativity in ways to make victims out of trusting people. And yes, horses and property are sometimes staked out and marked in various ways.

 

[russianhorse]

I wasn't going to put anything here, but I have to say that its not very nice to mock and ridicule people on this forum who are genuinely seeking advice or sharing their experiences

Surely this isnt what the forum is for.......

 

[DebbieCG]

[ QUOTE ]
I yawned because it's all mass hysteria.

And for the record, no, I've never seen one of these plaits.

However, I have a good friend who found her mare with it's vagina between it's back legs and it's vulva slashed open. It wasn't reported to the police because the vet decided it was a kick, and with no medical evidence to prove she'd been assaulted, the police weren't interested.

So I do know what it's like to be genuinely scared for my horses! Plaits? Pssh. Try finding your horse half dead from blood loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harper_gal - One of your more recent comments after the above was along the lines that horses were easily replaceable. Therefore why would you be genuinely scared for your horses if this were the case - or is it that horses are easily replaceable if they are not yours and it is not you who has to replace them? Very curious. Also, you have posted on a thread about favourite horses and posted a picture of yourself looking very happy on your favourite pony. Very confusing if horses are so easily replaceable in your opinion, why bother having a favourite?

 

[Tinseltoes]

Harper_gal,
Im sorry but my horse is not replacable,he is my pride and joy and goold help if he was stolen,Id be crying endlessy.
So I dont see how you can say a horse is replacable.

 

[DebbieCG]

poohbear59 - exactly my point, to most horse owners their horse in not replaceable. Perhaps you could direct this query to Harper_gal, as she made the comment 'easily replaceable animal' and twisted the context of the loss of one's horse if it were stolen.

 

[tashpritty]

[ QUOTE ]
Happy New Year Everyone..

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present...

Thanks for reading

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so from the first post made why has it turned into everybody ranting at everybody.
whether you agree or disagree could a simple post saying thanks for the heads up, no need to express any opinions on what you believe to be scare mongering

if you are greatful for the heads up say so.
if like me i dont personally agree with plaits meaning they are 'tagged' then there is no need to comment imo

i dont really think the first point was inteded for people to argue over what they believe, cant we not all just act like responsible adults?

 

[DebbieCG]

You are quite right TishTashTosh, but easier to say if you haven't had the experience. When you see irresponsible comments being made by a few and a subject is close to your heart, it is actually quite difficult to hold back all the time from commenting.

 

[*hic*]

Was your stolen horse freeze-marked or microchipped?

 

[LynnWalker]

My horse was microchipped - but to my eternal regret not freezemarked. i remember thinking about the 'best' option - and I so regret choosing the microchip.
I know some will argue that he is identifiable, and that is true - but first we have to find him and FM's are obviously easier to see. Anyone can read a few numbers and letters - not everyone can scan for a chip!
My new lad is FM'd - and although I love him, he will never replace Toby.

 

[Serenity087]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Happy New Year Everyone..

I have just come back from putting my horse to bed tonight, when a plait was found in another horses mane! Looked a bit like a dread lock but was an obvious plait! We believe that she could of been ear marked for being stolen, so this is a warning.. She also has a foal at foot and seems untouched at present...

Thanks for reading

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so from the first post made why has it turned into everybody ranting at everybody.
whether you agree or disagree could a simple post saying thanks for the heads up, no need to express any opinions on what you believe to be scare mongering

if you are greatful for the heads up say so.
if like me i dont personally agree with plaits meaning they are 'tagged' then there is no need to comment imo

i dont really think the first point was inteded for people to argue over what they believe, cant we not all just act like responsible adults?

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole problem is the posts themselves are utterly un-necessary!

As I have said, the system for forewarning horse owners on real issues is clogged up by reports of these wind knots.

REAL notifications of REAL attempted thefts are getting ignored!

I attempted to post about an attempted break in at a yard near me, and it's already swamped by a million and one mythical posts about plaits.
No plaits were found, just a little scrote actually breaking into the yard

I don't think it's at all un-necessary to call out these posts as fake. After a year of looking for eastern europeans I'm dead sick of another year of posting about plaits. It's a scam. Most the users who have seen plaits have less than 20-40 posts. They joined with no other intention than scaremongering.
Then, once word is out, our fears for our horses take it from there.

I'd have been more polite were it a post about a van/lorry parked outside a yard. Or a breakin on a nearby farm. But these plait things are tiring, tedious and a waste of everyones time.

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]
Janet George... you are on here yet your forum is closed unless folk pay I note? hypocrisy?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's hypocritical about it. I participate in a LOT of forums other than my own, and subscribe to two other than my own.

This forum often reminds me what I LIKE about a subscription forum (other than the fact that mine raises a lot of money each year for EMW through the subscriptions!!) We get very few trolls or trouble-makers - and they are FAR easier to dispose of if they DO appear!

Horse & Hound is a big publishing house and this forum pays its way through advertising. I can't afford to maintain a dedicated server for a busy forum AND put hours into managing it. I don't want a forum plastered in advertising - and neither do my members. No one is forced to join - it's a matter of choice!

 

[DebbieCG]

Jemima_too - my stolen horse, Ballymoss, was not microchipped as this was not in place in the early 1980s or as you put it 'how the world has changed since your horse was stolen'. It wasn't actually the 1800s! Man had landed on the Moon at least a decade earlier by then, and Madonna was and still sometimes is top of the charts! You've heard of Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet, haven't you? - they are still around or have made come backs since the early 1980s.

And no, my horse was not freezbranded then as it was something that was just beginning to happen and although alot of owners did get there horses branded back then, there were worries about it as it was not a proven theft deterrent at that time and there was no legislation about it. However, I would say freezemarking appears to be the most proven theft deterent and it is very advisable to get it done.

My mother campaigned at the time to get passports for horses, but of course this was before the time the EU stepped in.

By the way, Ballymoss (16.2hh T/B chestnut gelding, 12 years old at the time) was stolen along with 3 other freezebranded T/B horses from a secluded country lane yard in Hertfordshire in March 1981. The gate and stables were padlocked at night but the thieves (obviously professionals) who must have been watching the yard for a while, broke all the padlocks on the stables and gate the night they were taken. The three horses who were freezemarked were subsequently dumped in a field within a week in Wiltshire. Ballymoss was not with them. We never saw him again.

 

[DebbieCG]

Actually, there were no mobile phones, Internet or Horsewatch back then, but we did advertise Ballymoss as being stolen in the Horse & Hound magazine. I think it was around 1983 that the famous racehorse, Shergar, was kidnapped and made headline news - he was never found or has his true fate been discovered, but there were many theories, poor horse.

And that is one of my points about the trauma of horse theft - it affects innocent people and more importantly, innocent animals.

 

[DebbieCG]

netposse - thank you for your input here - I do follow your extremely valid and helpful website, thankfully there are websites and organisations such as yourselves and Horsewatch.

 

[Hedgewitch13]

The thing is all of this good advice has been said time and time again in loads of other 'my horse has been plaited therefore it must being tagged to be stolen' posts.

To keep posting about the same stuff over and over again is getting very tiresome. Yes I know I don't need to read them but I do in case someone actually comes up with a grain of truth... so far none have.

I will say again funny how none of the horses 'tagged' had pulled manes, just unpulled, untidy manes. Sigh.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Harper_gal,
Im sorry but my horse is not replacable,he is my pride and joy and goold help if he was stolen,Id be crying endlessy.
So I dont see how you can say a horse is replacable.

[/ QUOTE ]
Losing a horse is indeed devastating, and PF is unique and irreplaceable to ME. In practical terms I'm sure there are horses just as good and better than she is and possibly even more suited to my needs. That is irrelevant. I love her to bits. Losing her would be horrendous, but not even close to losing my sister or mother.

 

[royaldrift]

Harper-Gal, I don't post on here very often and can't remember when I registered but it was at least a couple of years ago.

The OP who started this thread is a friend of mine and the horse that she was referring to is my mare and foal. I can categorically state that she was not scaremongering merely trying to help somebody that she was concerned about.

To the poster who referred to these horses as replacable (I can't be bothered to look to be honest) I can tell you for nothing that I love my mare with a passion and that she is utterly irreplacable, I would be completely devastated if she was stolen. No I wouldn't put it on a par with losing one of my children but it doesn't make it any less devastating.

I'm quite saddened at how unsympathetic people on here can be when I have received nothing but kindness from RL friends and associates. Some of you have clearly never suffered a loss of any kind.

I've moved my mare and foal which has caused an awful lot of stress and upset both to me and my lovely YO but whether these plaits (and it was a plait not a windblown knot) mean anything or not I'm not prepared to take that risk with my beloved horses.

 

[Serenity087]

Mikoletta, I think you misunderstand my post. I did not accuse the OP of being one of the scammers, despite her low post count.

I did state that the scammers have done their work - we're now hysterical.

I'm saddened that you felt you had to move your mare, as this is exactly what people want out of you. But I do understand your motives, don't get me wrong. I love my girl to bits, but at the end of the day horses aren't stolen for slaughter. They are sold, often to another owner who'll love them just as much as you.

And, for those who really don't believe I have a clue - I really do. I just don't post all about it on internet forums stirring up people who have nothing to worry about.

 

[DebbieCG]

[ QUOTE ]
Mikoletta, I think you misunderstand my post. I did not accuse the OP of being one of the scammers, despite her low post count.

I did state that the scammers have done their work - we're now hysterical.

I'm saddened that you felt you had to move your mare, as this is exactly what people want out of you. But I do understand your motives, don't get me wrong. I love my girl to bits, but at the end of the day horses aren't stolen for slaughter. They are sold, often to another owner who'll love them just as much as you.

And, for those who really don't believe I have a clue - I really do. I just don't post all about it on internet forums stirring up people who have nothing to worry about.

[/ QUOTE ]


Harper-gal - have you seen the website Missing Horses on Loan's Homepage? No-one is trying to scaremonger - just give facts and promote awareness, something that you apparently cannot grasp. The following is an extract from their home page:

'Horses and ponies go missing on loan every day, from all over the country, this is not the first case nor will it be the last. Even with a loan agreement there seems to be a loophole that some unscrupulous people will use to their advantage without any thought for the horse. Sometimes the horses are found and can be returned to the rightful owner, unless they end up with a fate of Lady and Gwendolyn.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Lady and Gwendolyn, two well loved horse's from Norfolk that were sold on by their loanee through Melton Mowbray Horse Sales, and then sadly ended up in an abattoir in Cheshire.

Lady and Gwendolyn were advertised on loan in Norfolk and a lady answered the advert and took the mares as companions to her son's shetland pony on the 3rd October 2008. A BHS Loan agreement was signed, the loanee used an address in King's Lynn. The loanee kept in contact by text until the end of November then the messages stopped.

Lady and Gwens owner decided to "google" her number and found she was a"dealer" and immediately became suspicious, she "googled" the loanees name and found that she was wanted in connection with missing on loan horses by Essex Police. The matter was reported to the police with the help of Essex Police and a statement was made on January 6th 2009, on the 20th January 2009 she found out from the abattoir in Cheshire that they had been slaughtered after being sold through Melton Mowbray Market with illegal passports, the horses had been registered under different names and using another false name and address. This happened even though one of the horses was freezemarked and micro-chipped!

As horse and pony owners we feel extremely let down by the Horse Passport Societies and by creating this site we will work together to raise awareness of the loophole that has been overlooked and so these poor, loved mare's death's have not been taken in vain, and to stop this happening again.'

 

[hairycob]

Mikoletta, would you & your friends have thought twice about it if you hadn't read all the threads on "plaits"? You'd probably have said "blasted tangles", undid it & slept peacefully at night. Please be reassured - I have 3 horses & 2 (the ones with longer manes) get these all the time & I am sure that thieves would not be remotely interested in one of them because, precious as she is to me, stealing for meat money isn't worth the effort. If your horses aren't freezemarked get it done as soon as you can it's the best thing you can do to protect them.
Although even one stolen horse is too many, most people think that the number of thefts is far higher than it actually is. As some one has already said you are far more likely to have equipment/tack stolen so get that marked too while you are in the mood to think about security.