planning question re stables

YorksG

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if someone obtains planning permission for stables, with the condition that they use them for their own and their families horses, and then rent them out as livery stables, what if any comeback might there be?
 

sjb10

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I should have thought they'd be required to stop, or make an application (with asociated costs) to have the condition lifted or varied. Not sure of the sanctions if they failed to comply.
 

Orangehorse

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They will be in breach of the planning conditions and if the Council find out they might well have a visit from the Enforcement Officer.
However, normally Councils don't like taking draconian action and will tend to give advice, not threaten sanctions (which they can ultimately of course). I daresay they would be asked to apply for permission to use as a Livery business and this would again come before a Planning Committee (or maybe just a Planning Officer) and then there might be extra added conditions.

We used to get this sort of thing at the Parish Council. I remember seeing in a local tack shop an advert for livery and I was thinking "that was for own use only." I think they had to reapply. But of course once someone is doing something it is hard to get them to stop and Councils don't often take people to court unless they are blatant and uncooperative.
 

meleeka

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I don’t think it’s enforced, certainly not round here. I know of one person who applied for permission for her own horses only but is now running a full on livery yard!

I’m guessing if somebody complains they’ll make them stop.
 

YorksG

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Thanks all, that all pretty much fits with what i thought, including business rates being avoided. I think a call to planning will be happening
 

blitznbobs

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I doubt enforcement will do anything- most local plans in England encourage business so even if someone does tell on them it’s likely that they’ll just lift the conditions
 

sjb10

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Why do you care what they do with their stables?
I guess avoidance of business rates, which allows them to undercut properly consented and regulated stables.

Plus doing something that has specifically been excludedby planning consent, presumably being consistent with other similar consents. It might be causing additional traffic or enviornmental pressures. In essense it's a bit like having consent to buld a bungalow, but building a house instead. Although unlikely to have the same degree of impact.
 

Orangehorse

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Also impact on other local residents. Stables for your own use are OK, but if there is a lot of additional traffic that can become a nuisance.
 

sport horse

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Did they apply for the stables for their own use and did the subsequent planning permission actually specifically 'limit the use to horses owned by the applicants'? If the actual permission did not state that the stables were only to be used by the applicants, I doubt they are doing anything wrong in planning terms.
 

YorksG

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Did they apply for the stables for their own use and did the subsequent planning permission actually specifically 'limit the use to horses owned by the applicants'? If the actual permission did not state that the stables were only to be used by the applicants, I doubt they are doing anything wrong in planning terms.
The planning was granted specifically for use by the "farm" not for commercial use.
 

AngelaWB

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The outcome will be dependent on your local Council and their approach, some are more lenient than others, personally I wouldn't take the chance of contravening the planning permission.
 

hairycob

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Don't hold your breath if you report though. In 2013 someone local to us got planning permission to build a garage & store, he built a house right on the border of a neighbouring farmers arable field so impact on spraying etc. He had already converted an outbuilding to a house. There were now 3 dwellings using a septic tank built for 1. The septic tank isn't emptied and overflows into the farmers ditch. The house is still there and rented out as an HMO with many of the residents claiming housing benefit. He is still claiming it's not a house.
 

minesadouble

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Noise, nuisance, waste water run off, parking antisocially etc. There could be many reasons not necessarily vindictive.
But, other than the parking or vehicular access issues it makes no difference whether 10 stables are filled by 10 horses belonging to the occupier than if they belong to outsiders surely??
I plucked the figure 10 out of the air BTW, I have no insider knowledge but am hazarding a guess that it's not a huge amount of stables. Planners would probably take a bit of convincing that any more than 10 were for personal use.
I would personally let them get on with it. If someone wants or needs to make a little bit of money from renting out a few stables it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, planning or no planning.
 

YorksG

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But, other than the parking or vehicular access issues it makes no difference whether 10 stables are filled by 10 horses belonging to the occupier than if they belong to outsiders surely???
I plucked the figure 10 out of the air BTW, I have no insider knowledge but am hazarding a guess that it's not a huge amount of stables. Planners would probably take a bit of convincing that any more than 10 were for personal use.
I would personally let them get on with it. If someone wants or needs to make a little bit of money from renting out a few stables it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, planning or no planning.
Does tax avoidance bother you at all? Does building ten houses, when you have permission for one bother you? Which rules should people follow and which is it ok for them to break?
 

Meredith

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But, other than the parking or vehicular access issues it makes no difference whether 10 stables are filled by 10 horses belonging to the occupier than if they belong to outsiders surely??
I plucked the figure 10 out of the air BTW, I have no insider knowledge but am hazarding a guess that it's not a huge amount of stables. Planners would probably take a bit of convincing that any more than 10 were for personal use.
I would personally let them get on with it. If someone wants or needs to make a little bit of money from renting out a few stables it wouldnt bother me in the slightest, planning or no planning.
I only suggested possible reasons I gave no intimation of my own feelings.
 

minesadouble

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Does tax avoidance bother you at all? Does building ten houses, when you have permission for one bother you? Which rules should people follow and which is it ok for them to break?
It's all relative I guess, marginally exceeding the speed limit is generally seen as acceptable and murder is not, though both are equally illegal.
I suppose we all are guided by our own moral compass.
But a handful of stables being let out by a neighbour wouldn't bother me in the slightest and that's despite the fact we have a 50+ DIY livery business on our farm.
 

whiteflower

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It's all relative I guess, marginally exceeding the speed limit is generally seen as acceptable and murder is not, though both are equally illegal.
I suppose we all are guided by our own moral compass.
But a handful of stables being let out by a neighbour wouldn't bother me in the slightest and that's despite the fact we have a 50+ DIY livery business on our farm.
And that's exactly why it wouldn't bother you.....it's not going to affect your privacy of make that much difference to you when you have that many comings and goings at your only place. If you lived next door and only had a few stables for your personal use it may well have more of an impact from the point of view of privacy and disturbance.

For me it very much depends on the set up and situation as you can see from above. Planning with conditions attached is usually for a reason and take in to account the impact on the surrounding environment and for that reason for me if a planning restriction is in place then it should be adhered to.
 
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