Planning rules

[AdorableAlice]

The local council planning department has decided that 2 acres per horse is required.

This is for agricultural land having change of use to equine. Is this normal practice ? A friend is going through planning at the moment and having a torrid time with the planners. The horses on the premises are show ponies, none of which live out 24/7 at any time of the year. The planners are totally unable to understand that 2 acres per pony is not needed and are not interested in the fact that sheep are grazed alongside the ponies to keep the land in good order.

I thought BHS guidance was 2 acres for the first horse and an acre for each other horse.

Any thoughts or guidance gratefully received. I am a gold member of BHS and will ring on Monday to see if they can help.

 

[CazD]

How long have the ponies lived on the land? I thought that if they'd been there more than (I think) four years you don't need planning permission for the change of use?? Do they have planning permission for the stables on the property? Surely Planning Permission for stables implies equine use??

 

[Tiddlypom]

We jumped through all the local planning hoops to get our 4 stables, 2 tack rooms, 2 field shelters and arena approved on our 7 acres. The planning officer from Cheshire East council said that she would have approved up to 6 stables for private use. This was over the period 2006-2011 in 3 separate applications.

Different authorities seem to get their bees their bonnets about different things.

I've never heard of one enforcing a minimum of 2 acres per equine. It would be worth delving into some recent applications in the area to see what conditions have been imposed.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Thank you both.

I don't know how long the ponies have been there. I have suggested they get legal help. Two acres per pony will have just one result - vet bills !!

 

[popsdosh]

If there are sheep grazing the land as well no change of use is required it can remain agricultural they are just being D**k heads!
Tell them to go to a land agent not a standard solicitor as they will know all the ins and outs and will be cheaper. What part of the world are they I may be able to point them to somebody who can help

I havent seen run to earth on here for a while they will no all about this I am sure!

 

[Tiddlypom]

To add to my earlier post, this guy seems good, and has got good results getting planning for horse stuff. I think that other HHOers have used him as well.

http://www.equestriandesign.co.uk/mobile/

I spoke to him on the phone re our plans for the arena, and he was very helpful. We didn't use him in the end, as we went for an arena company who dealt with all the planning as part of the package, but we would have engaged him otherwise. We got change of use of the land from agricultural to equestrian.

 

[Orangehorse]

Yes, as I understand it Wychavon has a rule that is 2 acres per horse and then 1 acre per horse. From the Council's point of view they would say, children grow up they might have poinies now, but want event horses in a couple of year's time, so the rule is sensible.

Tell you friend to get in touch with her local Councillor and maybe suggest a site visit by the Parish Council or Planning Committee. (Wychavon have lots of horsey councillors! Don't know about the other councils.)

 

[catkin]

Don't know if it is still the same as it's quite a few years since we got help - talk to the BHS legal help line first, they did have a very helpful legal planning person available who was very helpful.
Also, challenge the council on any 'assumptions' that they are making. Don't know if the law is the same now but it always used to be that equines could be grazed (only grazing mind, nothing else) on agricultural land so that needs no change of use but if either an arena is being put in or grass paddocks being used for schooling etc then both those activities will need change of use. We also asked what their concerns were and agreed to a couple of conditions which made everyone happier about the project.

 

[sywell]

My planning officer advised. Horses grazing in a field are agricultural and do not require planning permission. If you take a bucket of food to them in the paddock they become kept horses and require planning permission. If you put jumps up in the field they must be removed each day.
No lets get into the real world. Keep on good terms with your neighbours as local authorities are not pro active and if no one complains they will do nothing. They are short of funds and staff and have enought to do as one trading standards office said about the Control of Horses Legislation just introduced, dont hold your breath we do not have the funds or staff to implement.

 

[JillA]

They have their own individual interpretation of government guidelines and if there are none they can make it up as they go along. Your best bet is to get into discussion or negotiation with them and get them on side, hard as it might seem, so that they will come round to your way of thinking (assuming you have already begun the process so can't slide anything in under the radar).

 

[irish_only]

They have their own individual interpretation of government guidelines and if there are none they can make it up as they go along. Your best bet is to get into discussion or negotiation with them and get them on side, hard as it might seem, so that they will come round to your way of thinking (assuming you have already begun the process so can't slide anything in under the radar).

Advise going to the Planning Portal and search well. ALSO, ask them to provide the written guidelines on what they are saying is planning law. I think they may well fail as quite often planning authorities will interpretate to suit. If all else fails, you can speak directly to a Govt planning adviser at the London HO. We did this when applying for a house under 'any other rural enterprise' and the Govt official in London was very helpful and advised if the planning board did not adhere to guidelines to let him know and he would jump on them from a great height. (We are in a National Park)

 

[scrat]

Somthing similar to this was attempted in the New Forest by the fairly new National Parks Authority. The NPA were trying to impose loads of rules concerning grazing for horses in the area (not the forest ponies). They tried to bring in a rule that each horse should have one hectare (nearly 2.5 acres) of grazing. Given that the majority of grazing is runback grazing for new forest ponies this was greeted with much protest and thrown out. So I'm not convinced that there are any rules just guidelines for welfare?

 

[PeterNatt]

There are several types of horses taken in to account in planning laws:
Horses used for breeding
Horses used for agricultural purposes
Horses breed for the meet market
Horses used for recreational purposes
Change of use is required for horses used for recreational purposes and if any of the horses in the other categories are feed then they come under recreational purposes.
Asking for two acres per horse is not unusual as the planners are also considering equestrian use of the land by the next owners. What they are trying to prevent is turning the fields in to mud baths.

 

[Goldenstar]

Honestly the state of places you see when you are driving about ,horses being kept in appalling cramped conditions I can't say I blame the council .

 

[TopTotty]

Just a word of warning. Be very careful what innocent remarks are made in posts like this. I have a new neighbour who clearly hates me as I stopped her from using my school after she abused it and broke my jumps. She has been hounding the council about my stables, menage and lights and is accusing me of running an illegal livery yard. She has been on here digging all my posts from over 6 years and forwarding them on to the council! The council officer is nearly on my Christmas card list I've seen him so much!!!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Honestly the state of places you see when you are driving about ,horses being kept in appalling cramped conditions I can't say I blame the council .

Very helpful.

The vast majority of planning officers have no land management training and no concept of horse keeping. I was asking for guidance and previous experience.

 

[PeterNatt]

AdorableAlice. My comments are based on getting change of use from agricultural to equestrian use on a number of different occasions so my comments are based on experience..

 

[Goldenstar]

Advice based on experience , if your trying to turn a former pig sty into a bedroom or agricultural land into amenity or whatever budget £2 to £3 k to instruct a planning professional into your plans , when and if you hit issues instruct a suitable professional and have them fight your corner the chances are you will win .
Cultivating a property developer as a friend is always useful as this a good way to find the right professionals as is asking local land agents .

 

[Gift Horse]

My advice would be speak to a local planning consultant (look for one who is a member of the RTPI)
There will be a cost but it is likely to be cheaper to get it sorted properly than to face enforcement, appeals etc.

 

[AdorableAlice]

AdorableAlice. My comments are based on getting change of use from agricultural to equestrian use on a number of different occasions so my comments are based on experience..

Thank you, really helpful and I have passed on the info.