Plans for 'super dairy' withdrawn

I'm in two minds about it, TBH.
I mean, putting aside the welfare etc argument, the Environment Agency's objection was and objection ''on principle'' and IMHO that is wrong - EA should not have ''principle'', it is there to observe the letter of the law.
As to welfare argument - I'm not too happy about zero grazers, but then again, modern Holstein is not designed conformationally to be grazing away from the parlour and walk twice a day to be milked... If you listen to the experts, it is actually easier to keep them sound and healthy in a loafing paddocks arrangement than acres and acres of pasture.
 
If the general public were willing to pay the prices, farming wouldn't even be thinking this way.
Intensive farming = cheaper produce.
I didn't really like the idea of it, however I do know the animals would be well cared for. As far as the cattle never being out to graze naturally, I don't like this idea either. What are peoples views on top equestrian yards, any discipline where the horses are stabled 24/7?

We are Dairy farmers, however on a minute scale compared to the above proposal. We have 150 milking herd, who graze out all summer. Its just my OH and FIL and we get extra help as and when needed. But little farms like ours are being pushed out by the big boys. This will continue to happen unless the consumers support the smaller farm, but although they scream and shout at ideas like the super dairy, they still continue to buy supermarket farm produce which is imported or inferior quality.:)
 
Couldn't be happier tbh, I would imagine the EA also took into account the massive amounts of waste produced in one location? That would be a nightmare to get rid of.

Thing is, people are consuming less cow dairy products now, many people have rice, oat or soy milk (the latter for me) and other options are sheep and goats milk. People should be prepared to stump up the money for a premium product imho :)

I don't know why this country (and other western ones) has an obsession with dairy - does no one else think its weird that we consume the milk of another species, way past our weaning age - yuck!

Having said that, can't say I don't enjoy a bit of cheddar :D
 
martlin said:
, the Environment Agency's objection was and objection ''on principle'' and IMHO that is wrong - EA should not have ''principle'', it is there to observe the letter of the law.
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They have objected on concrete points relating to the location of the farm over a principal limestone aquifer:

"“The Lincolnshire Limestone is a highly fractured aquifer and lacks protective drift geology. This means pollutants could travel quickly to the groundwater below,” the agency says.

In a detailed 2,200-word statement, it says that in environmental terms, a dairy unit would not normally be considered ‘high-risk’. “However, we consider that in this location the production, handling and conveyance of large volumes of slurry and digestate (slurry following treatment by anaerobic digestion) immediately on top of an un-protected aquifer presents a significant risk to the water environment,” it says, adding that the 3,770 cows will produce more than 80,000 m3 of digestate each year.

The agency states that in 2009, the dairy industry was responsible for 324 pollution incidents in England, a quarter of all reported farming related incidents."
 
So we will consume food once again produced abroad with probably less welfare eg danish and dutch bacon whilst our industries are ruled by even more red tape most animals are kept in situations nature didnt intend even house dogs, goldfish gerbils pet birds and horses that is just how us humans choose to keep them
 
thank god for that.
i live in the middle of 3 large dairy farms, every day i see the cows walking miles grazing and the little calves playing, you can see, as if any evidence was needed that they are displaying natural behavoir, and enjoying every minute of it.
if they want a super dairy they need to invent an udder that can just lie on the floor all day and produce milk somehow, but not expect normal animals to be subjected to such deprivations of their rights to move around normally.
and yes i am perfectly willing to pay more for milk and meat if its ensures that farm animals can have a better lifestyle.
 
Combat Claire, the council has logged the EA's objection as an objection on principle - that's what I was referring to.
Tristar - ermm, but a modern Holstein is not that far off an udder lying around all day and producing milk. That's the point, I'm not quite sure that their health is better when they are walking twice a day to be milked - their feet are not withstanding their weight.
Not to mention that dairy cows do not graze with their calves playing around them ;)
 
well where i live they do, infact some of them graze outdoors most of the year, depending on the weather and ground conditions including holsteins, and the calves do stay out with their mothers, also the blond aquitaine herd are out at the moment, like i said i can see them all day so there is no disputing it.
 
I wonder how do they get milked then, because if the calves stay with mothers, they suckle them taking away the precious produce...
ETS Blond d'Aquitaine is a beef breed, so they would be grazing outdoors with calves on mothers.
 
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this is getting silly, obviously they don't stay with the mothers all the time or there would be no milk to collect, but the different breeds including milk cows can be seen out with the calves for periods of time after the birth, and i am often think how far they must walk during the because everytime i see them they're on the move grazing and this goes on all day, i mentioned the others breeds in the context that even they too can be out in feb moving around as nature intended if the weather is suitable.
i get enormous pleasure from seeing them at such close quarters, just watching them is relaxing as they browse and move around freely.
 
So farmers are cruel getting cattle in so they dont poach ground all cattle have to do is eat and produce milk or meat, food water and bedding is all provided and we have sheep in either with lambs or waiting to lamb, but that is no different to alot of livery yards that dont offer all year grazing,
 
mon said:
So farmers are cruel getting cattle in so they dont poach ground all cattle have to do is eat and produce milk or meat, food water and bedding is all provided and we have sheep in either with lambs or waiting to lamb, but that is no different to alot of livery yards that dont offer all year grazing,
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Of course they are ;)

In an ideal world, all our stock would winter out - less work, less bedding, less feed, less hassle. We are not in an ideal world, though, so the cows have been in since mid November and the ewes since early December.
Horses are out, though :)
Tristar, unless the farm you are talking about operates some strange system, the dairy calves are taken away from their mothers after they had their colostrum, they are not allowed back to suckle - every litre counts.
Some farms operate a mixed system where they have a number of beef or dual purpose cows, that suckle their own calves and the dairy calves. It's easier to raise the dairy calves on the bucket though, so that system is not seen that often.
 
lots of cows arent even maternal, so stress of taking calf off not that bad, you dont breed for maternal traits. without knowing All the facts people can only speak from the heart, but I know I would prefer to buy British food where possable
 
Poor calves, i'm sure they are not happy about being dragged away from their mothers.

I am glad the super dairy has not been approved.
 
tristar said:
well where i live they do, infact some of them graze outdoors most of the year, depending on the weather and ground conditions including holsteins, and the calves do stay out with their mothers, also the blond aquitaine herd are out at the moment, like i said i can see them all day so there is no disputing it.
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It is quite likely that they are cull cows that are being used to rear calves! We would do this from time to time with an older cow who is due to be culled. Let her rear two calves so that you are not taking good milk out of the tank and you do not have the extra expense of dump milk or antibiotic milk going through the parlour. Or given that prices for bull calves are going fairly well at the mo (at least over here they are) the cull cows are giving the bull calves a good start and so they are sold quicker! Cows can't produce ilk on grass alone...it may look nice to see them wandering around the field grazing etc but I guarantee you that if she is offered the choice between shed and feed or pasture and grass she'll look for the shed particularly at this time of year!
 
at certain times most bull calves are taken at birth and shot, i have heard newly calved cows calling all night after being separated at birth from their calves, so i think they do suffer great distress and have maternal instincts, in the same way they have an instinct to move around and graze.
the super dairy project is trying to push nature beyond its limits, vaste areas of land are used to produce maize and other supplement cereal feeds, millions of tons of hay and straw, all to produce dairy foods, and millions of gallons of diesel, and for one am not at all certain that dairy is that healthfull for humans, the proteins are not compatible with our digestion, it can be a major source of allergies, unlike goats milk, there are many other sources of calcium etc. I for one could live without milk if only to diminish the total exploitation and to see an end to what animals go through to give us something on a scale that we do not really need
 
Good, I saw a prog on one eve about the ones in America I think it was, it was so sad the poor cows never saw grass or the outdoors
 
We have two farms at least around here, both family farms that know every hair on every cow's head and who was the grandmother of each of them if you see what I mean. They both make a nice living, not extravagant but comfortable with about 150 milking at one time. Without exception their calves, both bull and heifer, are on the cow for nearly a week as they say it gives the best start to their calves and keeps the cows happier which in turn means their production stays up as they're not stressed. What they lose in production for that time is more than compensated for in less milk powder, veterinary and man hours costs alone which mean a lot when you're only a one with part time help band. I don't know if it would work as well at the larger farms who are scraping for every penny profit though.
 
If the general public were willing to pay the prices, farming wouldn't even be thinking this way.
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I agree - to an extent.

I would love to be able to afford sustainable, british, excellent welfare based food. However I am currently nearly vegi anyway (purely economical) I do only buy free range eggs but I am living off 50 pounds a month for food. If I spent any more than this I would not be able to keep my car on the road, go out and have 2 drinks once a month or go and see my friends once a month.

If I was paid enough to afford expensive, nice food AS WELL as nearly having a social life, keeping my car on the road (so I can keep my job) and paying rent (something that is going to be even harder soon because I want to live in my own bedsit instead of sharing a house with a bunch of mingers).....I would get nice food. At the moment keeping the car and therefore the job and keeping a roof over my head takes priority so I live off cheap noodles.
 
I may give up dairy altogether. I think it would probably be more appropiate to drink humans breast milk, than milk intented for a cow. Perhaps we could have a mass human milk bar! :D

I will research into it further, must be a huge gap in the market :p
 
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