Planting- HELP!

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Dizzle

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Every time I try and school my horse more, he starts planting in the school. This has been going on since 2009, up the level of schooling and after a couple of months he just plants and refuses to move in the school. Last night I couldn’t do anything with him, so I took him out the school and had a lovely trot and canter across the field. Came back, rode into the school and he planted again. Tried to take him into a different field where we have a grass arena (which he has been in once last week) and he planted again and refused to move. I’ve tried everything: Increased level of kicking, stick, reins, sitting still and waiting for him to move, bribery, waftying a branch around, shouting ‘boo’ loudly. I also tried to loose school him in the school and nothing, wouldn’t move with the lunge whip, faced me and backed up when I did big scary lady at him.

Thing is I don’t ask a lot of him, we’ve done a lot in the school the last 2 ½ weeks as we have a competition on Sunday, by a lot I mean one lesson a week, three half an hour schooling sessions, two hacks and one day off, I’m not asking the world of him.

As I said before he has done this every time I’ve upped the schooling, physio’s have never found anything, he’s going into an Equisage machine every evening as of tonight and I will get physio next week, but part of me thinks he is just bored and napping.

I just don’t know what to do, ideally I would just school transitions going large around the school but we managed 2 circuits of the school yesterday doing walk half halts before he planted, he always plants in the general area of the gate as well...

Has anyone ever had anything like this? He's an ex-racer by the way...
 
When he plants do you manage to get any more work from him or does the schooling end there ?
Suggestions are, get in there quicker than him by anticipating the moment of planting and lift one rein and change direction and increase the pace, asking for more energy so he doesn't have time to think about his orginal thought.

Abandon any repetitive circles and ride constantly asking for changes of direction, transitions and movements so he can't anticipate and plan a stop. Ride focused with energy and intention, have a plan of what you want to do for the time you have. If you get 10 great minutes, end it there and thank him. Let him know when he's doing well as you're working.

Have someone on the ground to give you directions, horses often work better with someone interacting with them and the rider. If he still plants, maybe have someone stick a lunge on and hold a lunge whip just to reinforce the need to keep moving. Whatever it takes not to end with him refusing to budge and let him think that he can call the shots. Make undesirable behaviour mean extra energy.

Alternatively, you could abandon the school for a few months and stick to hacking and fun riding until the thought of schooling again seems fresh and new.

Just wondering if he's an intelligent horse who loves to learn new things- is his objection down to boredom, does he want to be stimulated more in what he's being asked to do ?
 
Just a thought but you mentioned that when he planted you couldn't do anything with him so took him off for some fun. So you inadvertently rewarded the behaviour by stopping the schooling.

I agree with all that horserider said.

Not much else useful to add from me other than make sure you NEVER end a schooling session by the gate - always stop at some random part of the school at the end of a session and make much of him and jump off there. I actually like it when my horse does a poo during a session because we then spend a few minutes afterwards clearing up with the scoop so he doesn't anticipate leaving the school as soon as I get off.

Do you do any halts in your schooling sessions? If not, he might have learned that halting equals dismounting time so he's telling you what to do. It's probably dangerous to suggest that you try always dismounting at a walk for a while but might well be worth doing lots of halts (when you want them) in your sessions without dismounting.

Or develop the patience of a saint when he plants and sit it out so he gets bored and eventually decides to move again....
 
horserider said:
Abandon any repetitive circles and ride constantly asking for changes of direction, transitions and movements so he can't anticipate and plan a stop. Ride focused with energy and intention, have a plan of what you want to do for the time you have. If you get 10 great minutes, end it there and thank him. Let him know when he's doing well as you're working.
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^^that!!! Bored horses that are smart thrive on variation.
And you know....you can actually school whilst out on a hack!
 
We were practicing nearly halting yesterday, slowing him down, pausing and then walking on, I asked him to trot and he refused. We have a huge school and I was trying to run though a dressage test in one third, walking down the centre line and he refused to move. I did try to sit it out but after 10 mins still nothing, the only thing I could get him to do was circle, of course getting nearer and nearer to the gate.

Yes, he is a pretty quick learning little horse (as long as your clear in what you ask) so I’m really hoping it’s boredom, I tried to get him over a fence yesterday but he wouldn’t walk anywhere near it.

Initially when we started schooling again in March I was doing a lot of work with poles, but he soon got bored of these and was refusing to go near them...

I don’t think I’d be so worked up about this if we weren’t competing on Sunday, he was going so nicely and now he’s not :( I think I’m just going to take him out for a hack this evening. YO is schooling him on Thursday for me and will she thinks.

Why can’t I just have a normal horse?!
 
I think you need to change your tactics. Either put a long time aside, sit and wait him out.
You could also get someone to grab him and drag him forward so he learns that planting does not mean he gets to go for some fun/go for his tea!!
Another alternative would be to turn him in lots of tiny little circles or make him rein back around the entire school if needs be! Just getting his feet moving again is the key here I think.
As you said he is obviously a clever little horse and he has realised that if he plants you take him out of the school and he has to learn you are the boss!! You are varying what you are doing and you arne't in the school for hours so he has to get over himself and accept that schooling is part of life!
Hope some of this helps!
 
Ooh I never thought of rein back, have never tried rein back on him (unless we're doing gates that is). What aids would you use to teach a horse rein back?

Trying to think of something I could do with him in the school that would be fun for him.

Another idea I had was putting some stones in a plastic bottle and giving it a shake when he plants, may end up with me getting splatted but could spook him into a forwards gear??

Waiting out isn't an option this week really as I'm so busy!
 
Dizzle said:
Ooh I never thought of rein back, have never tried rein back on him (unless we're doing gates that is). What aids would you use to teach a horse rein back?

Trying to think of something I could do with him in the school that would be fun for him.

Another idea I had was putting some stones in a plastic bottle and giving it a shake when he plants, may end up with me getting splatted but could spook him into a forwards gear??

Waiting out isn't an option this week really as I'm so busy!
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If you are unsure as to the aids, ask someone to teach you them. Your YO or an experienced livery? Because you obviously don't want to be pulling h im in the mouth to move backwards as he will just associate schooling with being pulled. Another option to get his feet moving would be turn on the forehand just to get his feet moving and get him going again!
 
Even doing TOTFH he then plants after about two strides...

Does anyone want a very pretty but essentially useless horse?!
 
Damnation said:
I think you need to change your tactics. Either put a long time aside, sit and wait him out.
You could also get someone to grab him and drag him forward so he learns that planting does not mean he gets to go for some fun/go for his tea!!
Another alternative would be to turn him in lots of tiny little circles or make him rein back around the entire school if needs be! Just getting his feet moving again is the key here I think.
As you said he is obviously a clever little horse and he has realised that if he plants you take him out of the school and he has to learn you are the boss!! You are varying what you are doing and you arne't in the school for hours so he has to get over himself and accept that schooling is part of life!
Hope some of this helps!
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Hi, I agree with what Damnation says! My current ex-racer went through a phase last year a few months into his retraining of planting both in the arena and at the first gate out hacking, and I agree it is totally infuriating but you really do need to see it through. There is no point in starting something if you can't see it through. My instructor's advice (like that of Damnation) was to keep his feet moving and make it more uncomfortable for him to plant than to move on. I used to turn him side to side keeping his front feet moving. I found with mine that piling on the pressure or giving a slap with the stick made absolutely no difference. I had to use my legs intermittently to get more of a reaction, otherwise he could just switch off. I had weekly lessons at that point to give me the back up I needed, which was essential to get him through this phase.
I should be touching wood frantically but he hasn't planted or even shown a moment of thinking about it for over 6 months now. Persevere, he'll be worth it!
 
kirstyl said:
Hi, I agree with what Damnation says! My current ex-racer went through a phase last year a few months into his retraining of planting both in the arena and at the first gate out hacking, and I agree it is totally infuriating but you really do need to see it through. There is no point in starting something if you can't see it through. My instructor's advice (like that of Damnation) was to keep his feet moving and make it more uncomfortable for him to plant than to move on. I used to turn him side to side keeping his front feet moving. I found with mine that piling on the pressure or giving a slap with the stick made absolutely no difference. I had to use my legs intermittently to get more of a reaction, otherwise he could just switch off. I had weekly lessons at that point to give me the back up I needed, which was essential to get him through this phase.
I should be touching wood frantically but he hasn't planted or even shown a moment of thinking about it for over 6 months now. Persevere, he'll be worth it!
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That sounds just like him! I wouldn't really give up on him, although I was writing his for sale ad in my head last night! I will just keep him moving until walking seems the easier option. At least turning him side to side will keep his neck flexible :D

I knew things had been going to well with him, ex-racers are like having manic depression!
 
I've had this with three different horses in the past, and solved it in three different ways, as a different thing worked with each horse. First horse would plant mainly on a hack. I tried kicking, the stick, circling and shouting (growling) 'Get on!' and sitting it out. Finally what worked was just rhythmical kicking... boot and boot and boot to the time of a ticking clock. Not much energy expended and not getting all worked up. She soon learned that the only way to stop it was to move on. Soon it only took a couple of kicks.

The second two did it near the start of any schooling session. With the first one, just sitting there and waiting did the trick (she was easily bored). It didn't work with the other one though (an ex racer). I tried everything, and then finally I found that just shouting at her got her moving very quickly indeed.

Good luck.
 
Have you tried introducing a few small jumps or having another ridden horse in the arena to give him a lead. Just giving up & taking him out is rewarding his behavior. You need to sit it out no matter how long it takes, perhaps someone on the ground could do some work with him without you getting off?
 
I'm glad I read this post....I have exactly the same problem!!! My ex-racer....will be trying out the above suggestions. He's fantastic out hacking...in the school...limited attention span and as for lunging....forget it!!

Best of luck! :D
 
solly3066 said:
I'm glad I read this post....I have exactly the same problem!!! My ex-racer....will be trying out the above suggestions. He's fantastic out hacking...in the school...limited attention span and as for lunging....forget it!!

Best of luck! :D
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Get the lungeing sorted out, it will really help you. I worked mine on a 10m circle in walk so i could reach him easily with the whip, and as he accepted the whip, I could tap him at the girth to pretend to be my legs! Lots of transitions - walk, halt,walk. Must halt on the circle, not turning in or dropping shoulder or backend. Once this is established, move up to trot, again on the small circle so you have full control of him and his attention. All of this work with full tack and side reins, so he is learning to accept the contact. I'm experienced in lungeing and have had a lot of undesirables but my instructor was absolutely fantastic with helping me get my current horse who is an ex racer started off this way. I now have an extremely soft and even contact in his mouth and consistent outline. He has now unfortunately bruised superficial flexor tendon :( everything crossed for speedy recovery
 
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kirstyl said:
Get the lungeing sorted out, it will really help you. I worked mine on a 10m circle in walk so i could reach him easily with the whip, and as he accepted the whip, I could tap him at the girth to pretend to be my legs! Lots of transitions - walk, halt,walk. Must halt on the circle, not turning in or dropping shoulder or backend. Once this is established, move up to trot, again on the small circle so you have full control of him and his attention. All of this work with full tack and side reins, so he is learning to accept the contact. I'm experienced in lungeing and have had a lot of undesirables but my instructor was absolutely fantastic with helping me get my current horse who is an ex racer started off this way. I now have an extremely soft and even contact in his mouth and consistent outline. He has now unfortunately bruised superficial flexor tendon :( everything crossed for speedy recovery
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Thanks for that Kirsty! Will be trying that out tomorrow :) Here's lots healing vibes for your boy's tendon speedy recovery :D x
 
Sister has a large IDxHanno, who has a nasty habit of planting, once stood for a whole hour, I rolled a cig and smoked it after I had chuked the reins away and decided to just wait her out. In the end found that waving the schooling whip from right to left over her neck, not touching her, but ensuring she could see it. She then walked on. Everytime she has planted since then this trick has worked.
 
YorksG said:
Sister has a large IDxHanno, who has a nasty habit of planting, once stood for a whole hour, I rolled a cig and smoked it after I had chuked the reins away and decided to just wait her out. In the end found that waving the schooling whip from right to left over her neck, not touching her, but ensuring she could see it. She then walked on. Everytime she has planted since then this trick has worked.
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I've found this quite effective too, the same principle as the wip ***, a piece of soft rope (short piece of lead rope with the buckle removed or held in the hand) or reins used cowboy style,swished from side to side of the shoulder/neck. Back up with a voice aid or growl and stop swishing the moment the horse moves forward.
Worked when my baby horse planted at the yard gate with a comical 'shan't'.
She did....
Also like the shoulder shifting technique mentioned above. Lift and open one rein to move a sideways step and then repeat on the other side and so forth. Think bump starting a car. Horse finds it harder work, so more inclined to give up and move forwards.
If you can react while the horse is in the process of the 'plant', its easier to unstick him. Bit like glueing two pieces of card together, easily pulled apart before the glue sets and impossible to seperate once dried.
 
Something similar happened to me a few months ago. The vet checked her and said she was completely sound, physio found a bit of tightness but nothing to explain the complete drama of what we were experiencing - turned out it was the saddle. She could hack because I wasn't asking her to lift her back so only schooling hurt.
Assuming you've done the vet, teeth, tack and back checks and they've all come back ok, is it possible that your horse is just bored of schooling? Maybe try avoiding the school completely for a couple of weeks and just do a little bit of schooling out hacking and do your fitness work in the fields.
Then when you do come back to riding in the school, go in, ride to the far end, stop, get off and reward him and call it a day. The next day, do a lap before getting off and rewarding him. It sounds to me like you have a very clever horse who needs to know what's in it for him! Good luck and I hope you manage to figure it out.
 
Just to update you, I rode him on Wednesday night, initially got him into trot, went to turn down the centreline and he planted, so I turned him straight away and as soon as he walked on praised him, stayed in walk for a while everytime he tried to plant I turned him and eventually it got less and less. I couldn’t though get him into trot.

Until that is YO’s terrier came in the school and we played ‘chase the terrier’ :D terrier and horse seemed to find this great fun. Then terrier left and again, we couldn’t get trot... until that is YO walked round the corner, at which point he went into trot and canter as if nothing had ever happened , YO walked back from field with two horses and as soon as she disappeared he stopped again, although we could get a bit of trot, I explained to him that unless he would trot out of the arena he wasn’t leaving it and eventually we had a lovely trot, with a contact out of the arena and he was allowed to finish.

So... progress! :D

I do though have a dressage test on Sunday and not sure what to do, this evening I’m back late from work so going to have to go in the school, tomorrow morning I might just hack him out and get him really forwards.

Thank you all so much for your help and I'm so pleased to read that it's not just me that has this issue!
 
Haven't read all the replies - but it sounds like he does do quite a bit of work in the school - can you up his hacking? Even if just for a little while just to give him a break..

He may be 'pretty but essentially useless' - but I'd much rather that than the rearing, bucking, bolting, leaping thing I have atm! I think you can nip it in the bud as you have already started to with a bit of change :D

Have fun!
 
Fleabite said:
He may be 'pretty but essentially useless' - but I'd much rather that than the rearing, bucking, bolting, leaping thing I have atm!
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I totally agree, as I said to my RI, I can handle planting, it's fustrating but not scary.

Just another update, we went in the school yesterday and instead of my schooling whip I took my jumping whip... he planted, so he got a smack with the jumping whip... and didn't plant again, I went in with the aim of doing a nice figure of 8 in a forwards trot in a nice outline and he did it :D (our school is huge so a it's a big figure of 8!)
 
Dizzle said:
I totally agree, as I said to my RI, I can handle planting, it's fustrating but not scary.

Just another update, we went in the school yesterday and instead of my schooling whip I took my jumping whip... he planted, so he got a smack with the jumping whip... and didn't plant again, I went in with the aim of doing a nice figure of 8 in a forwards trot in a nice outline and he did it :D (our school is huge so a it's a big figure of 8!)
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Fantastic! Keep the positivity going!!
 
If you haven't got a wip-*** rope, get one. Or you can use the end of your reins. When he plants, ask politely for movement. Give him a second to respond then ask him UP a level, ie pony club kicks etc. Third time of asking, grab your reins in one hand, leaving a nice long loop on top of your hands and smack him sharply on either side of his neck with this loop, by flipping your wrist right then left then right. Hold his mane because he's likely to shoot forward in horror. If you do this every time he GOES to plant, he will soon realise that he might as well do it on the first ask. But I'd also take note of the good advice already posted about keeping his schooling interesting. Horses do get "school sour" and it can be career-ending.
 
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