"Planting" horses

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dilyshartland

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I'm getting my young Cleveland Bay used to hacking out alone. He's had a long period off work for health reasons, is only 8 and quite green. His problem is planting - and because he's 17.2hh, when he decides he ain't moving, he ain't moving. I know he musn't get away with this, so I get off and we end up just going for a walk. Frustrating. Any ideas? He's in good health now, I'm not pushing him too hard, and think he is just being naughty, to be honest.
 
It is probably lacking confidence. Horses don't just stand stock still alert, not moving and not eating for VERY long by themselves. If he is snoozing or snacking I take your point on naughtiness. But if he is fine hacking the same routes in company (is he?) and at the same time of day (differences in spooky shadows and if he thinks he is missing his tea etc) then it is more than likely a lack of confidence.

Can you try
(a) same route with equine company for him to follow
(b) same route with equine company behind him
(c) same route with someone on foot/bike for him to follow
(d) same route with someone on foot/bike for him to lead
(e) same route with a more confident rider
(f) same route with just you
...

I mean not necessarily all of those, but you get the idea.

Horse probably are sometimes naughty. But very rarely. It isn't really what they 'do'. They are much more often confused or scared by what we are asking and overruling a rider they don't have confidence in.

I take it he doesn't plant in the school and this is just a hacking issue rather than a potential discomfort thing from e.g. saddle no longer fitting after time off?
 
Hard to advise without seeing him actually planting, but here are a few things you could try.

Jump off for a few strides to get him moving, then jump back on, very non comfrontational.
Sit it out, for however long it takes.
Get someone to follow on foot with a lunge line to keep him going forward.
Long line him, he won't be able to plant and you should be able to school him through the phase.
Can you keep his front legs moving? Whether that be to the side, backwards etc.
Ask someone else to ride him.
 
could you long line? I have found with nervous hackers it provides a step between just being led and ridden- as you are not right next to them but you are on the ground.

as they are green it could be nerves. Or testing the water.
My mare is stubborn and I end up sitting their until she moves.... it can take a while, but force doesn't work
 
pippixox said:
could you long line? I have found with nervous hackers it provides a step between just being led and ridden- as you are not right next to them but you are on the ground.

as they are green it could be nerves. Or testing the water.
My mare is stubborn and I end up sitting their until she moves.... it can take a while, but force doesn't work
Click to expand...

i ahd the same problem with my 5 year old. I agree long reining works wonders, added to the fact that i needed to get a bit fitter so it was win win!
 
I have a Cleveland Bay OP, I totally get where you are coming from. I get an attitude along the lines of 'Don't fancy that much. What happens if I say no and don't do it?'

Two suggestions. First, as Amymay says, sit it out. Getting off in that context is not such a good idea imho as it's a reward. Getting into a fight is an even worse idea unless you are sure you can win.

Second, and my preferred method, keep the horse moving, so when they refuse to go forward you do a pirouette/circle to keep the feet moving. That unsticks mine quite effectively, but you end up repeating the lesson.
 
Sit it out, preferably with a book and a packet of fruit pastilles Like I did ! 2 Hours in a mozzy filled wood!
 
i find circling them works, anything to keep their feet moving, and keep them working so the easiest option is just to go forward.

Saying that i hack out with breeders of super, brave gorgeous horses who sell in england for a fortune as huntsmans horses. They sell seriously brave, bold, quality horses. And if their babies plant for more than a second or two, then they get a good, serious wallop with a bit of waven pipe and are rewarded as soon as they move off. It scared the life out of me the first time i heard them do it as the sound was so sudden, but their thinking is that they don't want horses who think they have an option to disobey a forward request and plant when they want. They want a horses that know the rider is in charge and giving them confidence not to be scared or have to stop at anything. So if they feel the horse is slowing, and they have reassured it its ok to go on and the horse refuses, then they give swift wallops till it moves.
 
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I had this with my horse Kevin, he just started planting. I had loads of advice from people, hit him, circle him, ride in company. I was told by several professional people and by other equine people, it was because he was taking the piss, get a better rider and ride him through it. Well it didn't take me long to work out how to get him though planting. Sitting him out was three minutes max, or I could wave my crop over his ears making a noise that pushed him on. He gave up after three rides, however my horse was planting because he was in pain. He went from planting ( annoying) to bolting under saddle ( dangerous) in order to get his point across. My horse clearly told me something was wrong and ended up having to shout at me. Before you go through all the excellent advice above, one of the tricks above will do it, check that one of his health issues isn't lingering. Check his saddle is comfortable. Yes it could be a confidence issues but it could also be pain and let me tell you from bitter experience that if it happens to be pain, being shouted at isn't fun.
 
Thanks so much for this. It all makes sense. He occasionally plants in school but yes I think that's confusion because I am not making my aids clear enough.
 
I'm almost certain it's not pain. It was in the past - but farrier, physio and dentist all declare him to be a happy horse. His saddle is a Vogue treeless, so that ought not to bother him. So grateful for this advice.
 
If pain ruled out, first and foremost, it's a confidence and training issue in my experience.

Confidence wise: really important to hack lots with another forward-going and sensible horse (or more than one ideally); long lining; on foot/bike companion; take a dog with you to run ahead; his trust in you will improve time as your relationship builds so work on that with groundwork or whatever your preferred approach.

Alongside and related to the confidence issue: forwardness. Has he been properly taught to move off your aids and stay there? Can you put him in a given pace and have him just 'travel' without continual forward aids? Does he move off your leg on an initial aid? Is he 'school sour' (horses, especially smart ones like CBs, quickly work out that going round in circles in an arena doesn't get them anywhere and will switch off)? Is his work varied, fun, and age-appropriate with the emphasis on fowardness over frame or where his head is?

I'm not suggesting you do any of the 'negative' things above, or maybe not intentionally. It is useful to take an honest look at his way of going and work routine though. You quite rightly say if he doesn't want to move, you won't make him. Which is not to say that getting after him won't help at all, maybe a bit of that is needed too - get someone super confident and experienced in this sort of thing to regularly hack him out?

Plenty of useful suggestions already for getting him going in the event of him planting, things to try: your shoulders back behind the vertical, your weight will then say forwards, reins long enough to allow this and for there to be no confusion that you're blocking a forward impulse; whip down the shoulder; schooling whip might help; schooling whip carried out at 45degree angle and moved forward and back; companion behind to whack him on the bum if he reverses; throwing reins forward/whopping side to side of whithers if you feel him backing off; voice aids especially if he well trained to lunge; get on and trot - trot, trot, trot, the whole route of need be, canter where you can, easier to keep forward momentum from a trot, (if you are walking it absolutely must be a march!); never turn him back on a hacking route, *always* circular; don't lose a battle, ever (don't start one if you aren't confident you can win it, see point above about involving a pro).

But, my main point is that you've got to outsmart him and make him think it's his idea to want to go. And this is achieved by making everything fun and forward . And also forwardness must be immediate, from aids in the school, to walking in from the field, to hacking round the block. Every interaction you have with him, you need to insist he goes, 'now'! Every time you sit on him it's "right, let's go mate, yes now! Good boy!" Loads of praise when he does the right thing (praise primarily being an immediate reward by way of a stilling of your aid, but also big pats and vocal encouragement!)

And finally, abandon whatever else you are working on and throw everything you have at getting him truly forward. It is so fundamental to everything else and in my opinion only likely to get worse unless addressed smartly. Best of luck!
 
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