Planting Youngster

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I have a 5 year old gelding who is the most work shy backward thinking horse ive known. I have managed to get him hacking out on his own with ease now but it you try to ride him in the field or school he will humour you for about 5 or 10 minutes then he will plant himself or try and clamber over the fence. No amount of kicking or using the a stick will work and he is ultra flexible so will bend without moving feet. I would like to take him a to a few shows this summer but i cant ride him around my 3 acre field how am i going to be able to get him to move in the ring. I'm planning to send him for some schooling towards the end of the summer but at the moment i just cant afford to send him away now.

Ive had his back checked and his teeth done within the last month and ive had his tack checked with no problems, It is an evasion im sure but how do i deal with it. He would be happy to stand there all day and i swear he is laughing at you.
 
OMG! I was there, exactly two years ago with my now 7 year old highland. He too was laughing at me, I'm certain of it. I just used to make sure I had plenty of time so that I could sit it out until he got bored then once he'd walked on a bit I got off. It was a long summer! He had most of that winter off and I've never had a problem since, he is the most willing and forward pony I could want. I think he just didn't see the point and just needed to grow out of it. I did take him to one show during that time and he was a saint, no planting at all - I think, in the excitement of it all, he just forgot to argue!
 
That gives me a little hope as when hacking out both in company and on hus own he is fine. He just does not see the point in anything else.
 
And don't even think about jumping he just ploughs straight through the jump without even breaking stride
 
He sounds a proper character, mine is too, I think they have to have that little edge to think up these 'plans'. I'm sure yours will come right, as did mine, as I say it just took time and oodles of patience :) Good luck!
 
Personally I would shove a lunge whip up his backside and insist he goes forward first time everytime. If you are worried about a big overreaction grab a neckstrap!
 
I'm looking forward to this in my youngster. He plants even going to the field some days! At 4 and 16.2hh, I think he is too immature to start yet, so it will be at least autumn before I have the joy of this behaviour! ;)
 
when he hacks out alone, what happens if you school in a field (if available?) for 5 mins or so? Is he relaxed & confident & understanding your aids or is it still a bit of a struggle even at that point?

....FWIW, my rule of thumb with youngsters is always to give them the benefit of the doubt and, if needs be, take a step back in their training before trying to push through stuff.
 
appylass said:
OMG! I was there, exactly two years ago with my now 7 year old highland. He too was laughing at me, I'm certain of it. I just used to make sure I had plenty of time so that I could sit it out until he got bored then once he'd walked on a bit I got off. It was a long summer! He had most of that winter off and I've never had a problem since, he is the most willing and forward pony I could want. I think he just didn't see the point and just needed to grow out of it. I did take him to one show during that time and he was a saint, no planting at all - I think, in the excitement of it all, he just forgot to argue!
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I'm there too! he just stands there!!!!! so annoying but I caved and told him to stop being an arse and that I ment business and he moved on lol


btw i didnt beat him or any thing like that ;) even though I felt like it :rolleyes:
 
He is fine when is hacking he is fine. If I do anything in the field he naps and then plants. He is not relaxed as he hates being ridden in the field or school and that's before you start. Even when doing groundwork he hates being lunged etc with a passion.
 
I would get him as fit as you can, and try to keep things non-confrontational for a while (hopefully he will forget the planting behaviour). If you want to persist with the schooling then I would have someone good on hand with a lunge whip to remind him that there is not the option to 'not go'.
 
really does sound like you need to go back a couple of steps in his training..... or alternatively do something like just having a phase of hacking out with a good buddy to re-establish the idea of going forward happily?
 
Forever_broke said:
And don't even think about jumping he just ploughs straight through the jump without even breaking stride
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OK, try him over telegraph poles, that will make him think twice, I suggest you stick with hacking in company and try to make sure he has to go over ditches and logs. I had to get my instructor to ride mine eventually, I never ride without a schooling whip, and we both find he needs it to keep him up to his work, he will slow down at the slightest opportunity.
 
He goes forward happy enough out hacking. As soon as you go into a school or field he will just plant. I'm running out of ideas as to where in his training I need to go back to as I've never had to deal with a horse that will do this. We put some straw bales out in the field the other day as we thought the looked a bit more solid than cross poles. I agree he does need to spend more time doing poles etc but he has no respect for them. He did pop the straw bales a couple of times followed by him planting after two strides.
 
I'm afraid unless you address the not responding to your leg issue it's completely pointless attempting to jump him.
He is not laughing at you but showing you he doesn't understand what you want so is doing the best thing, staying put.
I would go back to long reining him round the field, lunge him in all different areas in there too, then get someone to keep him on the lunge with you riding and do enormous circles in the field using the person on the ground to encourage him forward.
With horses like this the only way to win is to establish proper forwardness off your leg, backed up with the schooling whip in a flicking motion not smacks.
It's going to take two of you to fix this now he thinks he doesn't have to move, but one on the end of the lunge with a lunge whip and you on top it's fixable..
 
Not sure how to deal with this then as I dont keep him at livery and nobody around to help. I long rein him which he does well and lunging he switches off as he hates it. How do you then progress. When do you know when to progress. I don't want him to get bored of being long reined and switch off to that too! As soon as I try to progress to any further stage he naps and plants. I'm finding I'm stuck and going nowhere. I tacked him up and rode him at a walk only doing large circles in the field. After about 2 minutes he planted himself which is a problem when on my own.
 
I debated whether to reply or not for fear of sounding horrible but here goes.
You have taken it upon yourself to start this youngster so I'm afraid saying "But there is no-one around to help " just isn't on. You took the job on so pay/persuade/plead with others to give you a hand.
Quite how you bore him long reining I have no idea, if he's marching along the road at a good pace he won't get bored!
He's planting for several reasons, one as I said he doesn't understand what you want him to do, two he knows full well if he argues up to now he's won...
My honest advice is send him to a professional for a month to help him and yourself.
There is no shame whatsoever in admitting you may have bitten off more than you anticipated but there is shame if you allow your pride to stop him becoming a horse that's a pleasure to ride.
We get horses in here every year people have started themselves and come to a stop just like you, we always go back to basics until they fully co-operate then move on from there again. This often doesn't involve any sort of arguement more allowing them to enjoy themselves hacking out with another until they are at the stage you know they are trying it on and it's ok to insist they go forwards. Don't forget any insecurities you may have pass straight on to the horse, it takes a special sort of rider to start youngsters, one who is very calm and confident and also determined.
I hope I haven't been too blunt but your answers are in your posts. If you don't know when to progress you really shouldn't be starting youngsters....
 
henryhorn said:
I debated whether to reply or not for fear of sounding horrible but here goes.
You have taken it upon yourself to start this youngster so I'm afraid saying "But there is no-one around to help " just isn't on. You took the job on so pay/persuade/plead with others to give you a hand.
Quite how you bore him long reining I have no idea, if he's marching along the road at a good pace he won't get bored!
He's planting for several reasons, one as I said he doesn't understand what you want him to do, two he knows full well if he argues up to now he's won...
My honest advice is send him to a professional for a month to help him and yourself.
There is no shame whatsoever in admitting you may have bitten off more than you anticipated but there is shame if you allow your pride to stop him becoming a horse that's a pleasure to ride.
We get horses in here every year people have started themselves and come to a stop just like you, we always go back to basics until they fully co-operate then move on from there again. This often doesn't involve any sort of arguement more allowing them to enjoy themselves hacking out with another until they are at the stage you know they are trying it on and it's ok to insist they go forwards. Don't forget any insecurities you may have pass straight on to the horse, it takes a special sort of rider to start youngsters, one who is very calm and confident and also determined.
I hope I haven't been too blunt but your answers are in your posts. If you don't know when to progress you really shouldn't be starting youngsters....
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Excellent post Henry Horn.
 
I had said in my first post that i've worked young horses before but have never come across this problem before. I rent a field which means that i have no regular help, when i can get him over to my friends yard she has helped me but i cant get him over there very often. I also said that he hates being lunged but he long reins well, What i do not want to do is get him to the stage of getting fed up of this too. Its all very well going back a step but by going back a step he is fine with. I hack him out regularly on his own and in company which he is fine with so i was asking for ideas as to how to progress.

I did also say that i was planning to send him away for some schooling in the summer but at the moment finances are tight and i can not afford to send him away for schooling livery right now which is why i said later in the summer.

Im sure everybody has at some point come to a point with a horse that they haven't experienced before. I came on here asking for help and ideas from experienced horsemen. At no point have i said that i wont send him away so im not sure where you get the idea that im not sending him away because of my pride might be dented
 
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Henry horn, you've said what I was trying to be too polite to (although don't worry, I realise that you have also tried to be polite.....).

Foreverbroke, honestly, if you're trying to jump a horse that doesn't evern really properly understand how to go forward properly, it's asking for trouble.

I hear what you say about not having the finances to send him away to someone that can help (or maybe even you don't have to do that - maybe you could find a local trainer that would come to you to help?) but to be honest, if that's the case, you might seriously consider just putting the horse away in a field for a bit and leaving him be until you are in a position to be of help to him (by having a trainer with you who can help), as at the moment it sounds like you may stand to just be setting yourself (and your horse) up with a problem that will only just keep getting bigger.
 
Kelpie said:
Henry horn, you've said what I was trying to be too polite to (although don't worry, I realise that you have also tried to be polite.....).

Foreverbroke, honestly, if you're trying to jump a horse that doesn't evern really properly understand how to go forward properly, it's asking for trouble.

I hear what you say about not having the finances to send him away to someone that can help (or maybe even you don't have to do that - maybe you could find a local trainer that would come to you to help?) but to be honest, if that's the case, you might seriously consider just putting the horse away in a field for a bit and leaving him be until you are in a position to be of help to him (by having a trainer with you who can help), as at the moment it sounds like you may stand to just be setting yourself (and your horse) up with a problem that will only just keep getting bigger.
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JH was with us the day we decided to see how he would cope with the straw bale as it was her idea rather than mine (she used to own the horse). He goes forward nicely and moves off the leg when asked out hacking and on the long reins its only when you step into a school or a field that he wont go forward (I'm not talking about doing anything in the field other than walking round) . I don't want to just leave him in a field until the end of the summer. So i guess i will just continue hacking him and doing the groundwork that i have been doing.

I came on here asking for ideas on how to get him moving forward when he plants which i will say thank you to the people who have offered ideas.
 
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Without seeing the horse it's impossible really to comment in a useful way. Some things do strike me though in what you say.

I think the fundemental reasons for lunging are to get the horse to go forwards on command and build obedience and submission. I would absolutely insist on a horse lunging correctly. Maybe you could get someone who is a lunging diva to help crack this. My youngster was nappy and resistant, if I thought he was going to argue about something (inc. farrier etc) I would spin him around the yard, in walk insisting on absolute submission, for 5 mins before we did anything - it can be really helpful.

Sometimes young horses just take time to accept discipline. You can be as tough as you want but unless they accept your authority you just build resentment. If you are hitting a brick wall then I would really focus on your hacking, go for really adventurous, challenging hacks and work on that relationship.

You say the horse goes off the leg - until he doesn't. That means he really isn't off the leg. I would sort this on hacks, leg yielding, transitions etc up the road, till you know he will go when you put the leg on.
 
If he long reins but doesn't lunge, have you tried to long rein him on a circle?

My feeling is that if you can get him better to lunge and more responsive to the lunge whip/voice you will be able to use the voice more effectively when you are on board so he understands what your leg means.

As he hacks out nicely, are there any fields you go through on your hacks that you could school for a minute or two in?

If he has decided riding in the field = nap, I would tackle the lunging in the field and tackle the schooling on a hack so you are breaking the issue down a bit.
 
I would school while you hack. Lots of hacking will make him more forward thinking so when you come back to schooling in the field he should improve. Suggest when you come back to schooling in the field you still hack first then have a short session in the field and gradually build up the time.
 
Have you tried boring him to tears when he plants?
I've got a horse that plants when he cannot compute what is being asked of him. If I hit, kick or flap it makes him 100x worse.
What I did is when he planted I didn't ask him forward, in fact I actually asked him to halt. I then made him stand still (the first time I did this I listened, with 1 ear to my iPod). Eventually he got fidgety but I made him still stand for another minute or so. I then asked him to walk on as if nothing had happened. When he did he got a pat & a good boy.
Eventually the plants became less determined in fact when I could feel on coming I would halt, wait & then move him on.
The problem with a young horse can be identifying if they are saying 'I can't or 'I won't '
I knew in this horses case he was saying the first & by taking the battle away he could clearly see that he could.
I have to agree that keep the hacking up & I certainly wouldn't be jumping whilst they are ploughing through the fences. Although it could seem they are just being clumsy I would suspect that every time he ploughs through & gives himself a knock he his learning that jumping/schooling is unpleasant!
 
millitiger said:
If he long reins but doesn't lunge, have you tried to long rein him on a circle?

My feeling is that if you can get him better to lunge and more responsive to the lunge whip/voice you will be able to use the voice more effectively when you are on board so he understands what your leg means.

As he hacks out nicely, are there any fields you go through on your hacks that you could school for a minute or two in?

If he has decided riding in the field = nap, I would tackle the lunging in the field and tackle the schooling on a hack so you are breaking the issue down a bit.
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He does lunge and goes through the motions and responds to what im asking but he does hate it and does switch off (he goes through the motions ike he is on auto pilot rather than interested in his work). He actually responds to my voice even when he is not on the lunge for example if he is in the field and i ask him to stand or walk on he does. I always lunge in the field as i have no school
 
Hello Forever Broke

Is this you? We think we rode with you on Dartmoor 5 years ago. Daks was there, also Freddie, Bonzo, Hope and Romany. we have very happy memories of galloping across the heathers with you. You also kindly showed us your chicken shed! So, what news? We hear poor Rosemary hasn't been well. Where are you now? We are still taking riding weekends away every autumn and would love to know if you are still riding over Dartmoor?

Are you still with J?

Fillies from London xx
 
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