Playing or bullying? *videos*

Paint Me Proud

Paint Me Proud

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A new horse came to our yard a few weeks ago and went in Chicos field.

I have had problems with said horse being very silly and 'beating' on Chico.

He has to wear a muzzle as he pulls rugs, and nearly pulled Chico over recently in the icy weather when his muzzle was left off.

I recorded two videos this morning of what's going on.

Do you think i am being unreasonable to want them to be seperated?

Are they just playing or is Chico getting a bit bullied and short tempered - i cant decide??

Chico is in the combo rug, the gangly one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUmvDD0NUpw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMES5WopDH0

p.s. see how the other horse in the field likes to use Chicos tail flap to windsuck - ripped three tailflaps so far -aie!
 
I dont believe it is playing - i do believe the one with th emuzzle is trying to assert his dominance over yours. Yours is quite rightly standing his ground, but i would be moving mine away from the evil one.
 
To me in the majority of the video the horse looks bored & frustrated, looks like he is trying to rub his muzzle off using chico.
However he does look like he is being a general brat aswell, I'm sure he will get bored pretty soon though.
My shetland seems to go out of his way to bully other horses but aslong as they stand their ground he gets bored eventually and leaves them to it.
 
Your horse gives as good as he gets! A bullied horse would just walk away.

Is there only 1 pile of hay out? If so, I'm not surprised it's leading to problems. The hairy seems to mostly want to get his muzzle off by rubbing his nose on him. What would worry me more is when your horse reared up and got his legs over the other one's back- good job neither panicked!
 
your horse looks like he just wants to be left in peace to eat. i personally wouldnt be happy that my horse was constantly hassled . isnt as agressive as they could be but has the potentiol for one of them to get hurt .does this other horse only target yours? can it eat as it looks pretty fed up and tries to stop yours eating . if it was mine i would want them seperated.
 
Some of the things they do to each other look like play behaviours, but I think it is motivated by competition over the hay patch. The horse with the muzzle looks frustrated rather than playful.
 
I wouldn't say that your horse is being bullied. He certainly doesn't move out the other horse's way and the other horse isn't being agressive. The other horse horse is just annoying your horse to the EXTREME!! If I was the other owner I'd also want him moved (if it is just a bad combination) because your horse gives back as good as he gets (and quite right too! the other horse is just too thick and persistent to get the message and bog off!).
 
Is Chico quite far down in the pecking order with the rest of the herd?

I would say you don't really want that sort of annoying behaviour going on, though it's not dreadful. Is the cob young? I think he wants turned out with an older thug like mine that would put it in its place.
 
thanks for replies.

The hay is neither here or there, the cob pesters ALL the time regardless, hay just happened to be down on the day i decided to record it.

The cob is only 3 years old - it is a herd of 4, Chico and an older tb mare who are firm friends and then two newbies, this cob and another tb.

The cob mostly targets Chico though and i am getting concerned that someone may get hurt
 
Well even if it's just play and no bullying, the cob's still too annoying for your horse! I think it's dangerous to leave them together, the cob will definitely get it one day! He has to leave your horse at peace.
 
I would talk to the other owner about the muzzle as from what I can see the other horse is trying to get it off by rubbing it on your boy and both horses are getting annoyed (quite fairly really). A three year old should really have access to grass so they can grow. Also be aware that as a three year old he will play more but what I can see it's not bullying.

Good luck :)
 
I don't think it's bullying, the cob looks fed up with his muzzle and wants it off. He doesn't look agressive, just annoying. I would think if your horse has had enough he would boot him one hard and let him know. That's how the pecking order is sorted. I can appreicate you don't want any horse to get hurt.

I would leave seperate piles of hay, the muzzled horse probably takes ages to eat anything and may feel worried he won;t get any.
 
If I was the cob's owner I would be asking for a separate paddock so that the horse can have the muzzle off and settle to graze or eat hay.

I think - as everyone else has said - that his behiavour is caused by frustration and boredom.
 
they are playing, and your boy is just teaching th newbie how far he can push his luck and the cob dosent quite seem to get it, he will in the end, but he may get a nasty kick in the process, i agree the muzzel is alot of the cobs frustration but owning a horse that sheads other horses rugs for a past time i can see why he has it on. my verdict - its play, but someone may well get hurt.
 
I think they are playing, all be it a bit roughly.

Does the cob's owner or your YO know you are posting videos of a horse that is not yours? I would be very p*ssed off if I found a vid of one of mine, especially if it was being accused of bullying.

FDC
 
Red Nosed Fany said:
Does the cob's owner or your YO know you are posting videos of a horse that is not yours? I would be very p*ssed off if I found a vid of one of mine, especially if it was being accused of bullying.

FDC
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no they dont know but i dont see it as a problem, the YM and cob owner know my feelings on the situation anyway.

As for the cob - he has to be muzzled as without it his current annoying behaviour turns into dangerous behaviour. He very nearly pulled Chico clean over last week when the ground was slippy and the YM had to rush to intervene.
I hate to see him muzzled but i do not want him in with my horse without it.

I am going to ask tomorrow to move fields - i dont think these two are a good combination.
 
Rocky01 said:
I would talk to the other owner about the muzzle as from what I can see the other horse is trying to get it off by rubbing it on your boy and both horses are getting annoyed (quite fairly really). A three year old should really have access to grass so they can grow. Also be aware that as a three year old he will play more but what I can see it's not bullying.

Good luck :)
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^^ Agree with this. The cob is using your boy to try to get his muzzle off... He's looks very frustrated which is understandable. It's also not fair on your horse having to put up with him but as said you boy could quite easily kick him to get him to back off... Personally if he was mine I'd separate them or ask for the muzzle to be removed. Your horse should be allowed to enjoy his time turned out and not be constanly pestered.
 
I'd be miffed if my horse was being bugged like this all day, he probably can't relax and enjoy his grazing if nothing else which would probably stress him out a bit. If they've been together for a fair while and this is still going on I would ask to have chico moved if I were you.
 
they look like they are playing to me; playing roughly but still only playing.

My 4yro is extremely playful, doesn't take no for an answer and is a real 'botherer.'
It doesn't matter whether there is food, where the other horses are in the pecking order etc.

Despite living in a mixed herd from a foal he is useless at reading body language and was forever getting booted and bitten by other horses and even when they really went for him he still thought it was part of the game :( I was really worried he was going to get a broken leg.

He is now in individual turnout and can chat to horses over the fence which makes everyone happier although if the other horses stand still for too long in reach he still likes to try and drag them over the fence ;)

Your horse looks a little pee'd off but certainly not being bullied. I would still want them seperated though.
 
I don't understand why it has a muzzle on, in the snow, at 3yo. It's neither bullying nor playing, Chico seems well able to stick up for herself. Maybe cob thinks Chico can help!!! Would ask for cob to be in own paddock and if it was mine, I would take off the muzzle.
 
It looked perfectly ordinary gelding playtime to me. I feel so sorry for the coloured gelding. A horse can nibble bits of grass through a grazing (the clue's in the name) muzzle but I bet he can't get a single strand of hay through it! He tries desperately to get it off many times. It must be intensely frustrating for him, the more so the longer he's out. He looks a sweetie and I'd be more inclined to suggest alternative methods of restricting his hay intake rather than branding him a bully.
 
I feel for them both, the cob looks bored a very frustrated and yours pestered but not bullied. Whatelse can he do, the grass is too short to eat with the muzzle and hay impossible plus him being young. I bet they get sweaty too all that commotion under the rugs, yes I would def say something
 
In reply to your question.

Not bullying. Both acting very juvinile however, both testing each other, it's normal heard behaviour it's just that you might not always see it much if you haven't got similar characters with in a group. Leave em too it the will sort themselves out in good time.
 
AndySpooner said:
I'd take the mussel off and spread the hay out in separate piles at least 5, and leave them to it.
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Yep. That muzzle must rub like hell when its cold and damp. Spray the rugs with some anti-chew stuff (NAF make one) and get the thing off the poor lad. Yes, he is being a PITA but it's partly through frustration.
 
No, they're both playing - albeit initiated by the other horse.

I'd like to see him in a field with other geldings and without the muzzle - ridiculous.
 
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I watched the first one and thought the other horse was being a bit of an arse, but then watched the second and figured it was six of one and half a dozen of the other. So I agree with the others - they're playing. Youngsters particularly will climb all over each other and play the 'I'm gonna bite you' game. To a certain extent, they are only going to learn when an older horse gives them what for for being too darned annoying ;)

That said, there are things you can do to calm the situation down a bit. More hay, certainly, and the muzzle isn't helping matters. When my laminitic goes out in the main field with his muzzle on he just bashes all his mates with it.... It might be that the annoying babyhorse would be better off with a more dominant horse that would tell it to naff off rather than rise to it and start playing. Our old TBs are out with the field with Wolf and his young mates and that works really well. The two old gits are quite dominant but very patient. I've seen them 'train' the babies in what the mean-face means.

Oh and forget what I just said about young horses - the bay in this vid is my other 24yo yesterday: http://www.facebook.com/v/1482220456273 They can keep going for hours too.
 
Nah, there's no bullying going on there. Just babies playing. But the main problem is the cob wearing that muzzle. It's obviously driving him nuts not being able to settle and eat, and he really should be given a separate area on his own (a portable leccy fence, a possibility?) so the other horses' rugs can be left in one peice (quite rightly) but he can be safely unmuzzled. Hopefully he'll outgrow his run chewing habit in time to come.
 
I think it starts off as play. The cob comes over, initiates play, chico does, gets bored and then wants to graze and tells him to sod off.
The cob is clearly young and bored, Chico wants to chill out and eat. It is quite clear in his body language that Chico has had enough and the cob just doesn't get it.
Ears pinnned back and four double barrels is not play, it's a clear signal for the cob to back off.

I feel sorry for the cob. I understand why he has the muzzle on but it is frustrating him.
I wouldn't want my horse out in that environment, I would want one of them out of the field.
 
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