Please be kind

FieldOrnaments said:
I do not think 'retiring as a pet to a loan home' is necessarily the best plan unless you specifically KNOW someone looking. There's too much risk he'd be (mis)sold on, someone would try to ride him, etc., and it puts both his welfare and those who handle him at risk sadly if he's unpredictable and explosive. To be acting the way he is he's unhappy in someway and euthanasia would be safeguarding him against the possibility of an unpleasant future and removing him from his discomfort in the present, though it's undoubtedly a sad decision to have to make from your perspective, assuming you've explored all feasibly options for what could be causing the explosiveness.
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We are out there, i took on a horse ten years ago as had to be retired due to back issues. Owner didn't have enough land to leave her out 24/7 which she needed due to her issues. She happily lives in my little herd and will do until her days are up. She is happy, her owner is happy and she is a joy to have around.
 
Kirstd33 said:
Oh crikey now I feel more like schooling isn’t the right option and he should be retired?
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I have read over this but couldn’t read and run as know we are in touch…
So sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation :( you’ve tried so hard for him.

I don’t think you should rule out sending him for schooling…. But maybe you’ve waited til you’ve eliminated PSSM?
 
thatsnotmyname said:
I have read over this but couldn’t read and run as know we are in touch…
So sorry you’ve found yourself in this situation :( you’ve tried so hard for him.

I don’t think you should rule out sending him for schooling…. But maybe you’ve waited til you’ve eliminated PSSM?
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I’ll pm you x
 
Kirstd33 said:
Oh crikey now I feel more like schooling isn’t the right option and he should be retired?
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Depends on the result. Test for PSSM and strip back his feed to a more muscle friendly diet. Mine is type one neg as his parents were registered with the british appaloosa society so had to be tail hair tested to be able to breed while registered with them.

How ever he has tied up twice in his life and can have odd spells of random tight muscles etc so i treat him as pssm / vit e deficiant horse which means low sugar/starch feed and high vit e....when he wants to eat a feed. At the moment he is on hunger strike of just hay and grass🤦🏼‍♀️

It could be a mixe or remembered pain/behaviour/sore muscles/wrong feed and someone completely new to him might be able to see through it....or he could just need to be retired. I know people who have has the same sort of issues and had a pro ride their horses, some have worked out the issues and come fine, others have retired.
 
Okay, so a few people have now mentioned PSSM without being pounced on & aggressively told that it's a made up disease & the type 2 test hasn't been peer reviewed, yada yada, so I will dare to join in. My QH x TB had it badly - I think he was p1/p3 or p4 (can't rem which)/px/px. He was a lot worse if cold or wet, i.e. autumn onwards. He was actually a very laid back horse but after about 25 to 30 minutes, when you'd expect a 'normal' sharp horse to be calming down, he would suddenly explode out of nowhere and literally try to turn himself inside out. Not possible to ride him through it. Do some reading & make your own mind up whether you think it would be worth testing. Type 1 test is about £30; type 2 is about £200. Some variants can be managed with diet, careful exercise & supplements; some can't. And of course it might not even be this.
 
There’s a well respected and peer reviewed test for PSSM1 which is being recommended by a number of posters. Vets recognise this test and the results from it.

There are no peer reviewed tests for PSSM2. You can pay £200 for non peer reviewed PSSM2 tests, they’ll gladly take your money, but no vet will take the results seriously as a diagnostic tool, so save your money.

Here’s some info on PSSM (both 1 and 2) from the RVC.

 
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catembi said:
Okay, so a few people have now mentioned PSSM without being pounced on & aggressively told that it's a made up disease & the type 2 test hasn't been peer reviewed, yada yada, so I will dare to join in. My QH x TB had it badly - I think he was p1/p3 or p4 (can't rem which)/px/px. He was a lot worse if cold or wet, i.e. autumn onwards. He was actually a very laid back horse but after about 25 to 30 minutes, when you'd expect a 'normal' sharp horse to be calming down, he would suddenly explode out of nowhere and literally try to turn himself inside out. Not possible to ride him through it. Do some reading & make your own mind up whether you think it would be worth testing. Type 1 test is about £30; type 2 is about £200. Some variants can be managed with diet, careful exercise & supplements; some can't. And of course it might not even be this.
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That explains it in layman's terms for us not so educated to understand. I have always wondered if Ben has type 2. Especially this year as he has (alll of a sudden) become reactive where we have spent the summer doing really well with outings and groundwork. He's now not wanting to load and generally being quite awkward/difficult to work with. This all started this year with a sudden change in temperature and damp spell at the beginning of September.
 
dorsetladette said:
That explains it in layman's terms for us not so educated to understand. I have always wondered if Ben has type 2. Especially this year as he has (alll of a sudden) become reactive where we have spent the summer doing really well with outings and groundwork. He's now not wanting to load and generally being quite awkward/difficult to work with. This all started this year with a sudden change in temperature and damp spell at the beginning of September.
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Is Ben the welsh? Obviously there are issues with the type 2 test, but there is an awful lot of welshies with muscle myopathies, and given the amount of inbreeding its no surprise sadly.

OP while I wouldn't have another for free, type 1 can be managed and cheaply. A friend had similar with her mare, and I saw a video and recognised the symptoms. She tested and is managing her in a totally different way. Yesterday she posted a video of her and her 9yr old daughter riding together in an open field, having canter races and jumping XC fences. This is a mare that's been passed from pillar to post and had an awful reputation. She did barely any ridden work. The bloody vets saw her tied up and diagnosed atypical myopathy, until the test came back negative. Then refused to prescribed the medication you give when they are tied up as cobs don't get PSSM. So while I am very pro vets normally, when it comes to PSSM they mainly know next to nothing.
 
I'm Dun said:
Is Ben the welsh? Obviously there are issues with the type 2 test, but there is an awful lot of welshies with muscle myopathies, and given the amount of inbreeding its no surprise sadly.

OP while I wouldn't have another for free, type 1 can be managed and cheaply. A friend had similar with her mare, and I saw a video and recognised the symptoms. She tested and is managing her in a totally different way. Yesterday she posted a video of her and her 9yr old daughter riding together in an open field, having canter races and jumping XC fences. This is a mare that's been passed from pillar to post and had an awful reputation. She did barely any ridden work. The bloody vets saw her tied up and diagnosed atypical myopathy, until the test came back negative. Then refused to prescribed the medication you give when they are tied up as cobs don't get PSSM. So while I am very pro vets normally, when it comes to PSSM they mainly know next to nothing.
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Yes he's a Welsh D. The one I sent away for Backing a few years ago and decided he was not going to be a ridden horse because of his explosive unpredictable behaviour. We've put it down to previous mistreatment, but its always been in the back of my mind.

OP - sorry to derail your thread. In your situation I'd test for PSSM and then plan to deal with the findings and have the lovely sounding professional in the background ready. She could be right and it's pain memory thats causing the behaviour and some bad habits that have crept in with napping etc. But I'd really want to know that he isn't in any discomfort before you start being firm and expecting him to 'behave' undersaddle.
 
Thanks all for your continued advice and support - it really is much appreciated, and is lots of food for thought as I am really am struggling to see the best way to proceed. He really is a sweet, characterful pony who is cheeky but has a big personality and I enjoy having him around, but I'll be honest am not enjoying riding him, infact I haven't for over a week as I'm lucky that I've been hacking out last week with my daughter on my friends 2 who we ride regularly. So next steps are:

1) test for PSSM - how is the best way to dot his?
2) get the vet out again to examine coblet and discuss this months latest behaviour
3) proffessional rider/behaviouralist is waiting for me to me to get back to her but she's willing to do some work with him
 
Kirstd33 said:
Thanks all for your continued advice and support - it really is much appreciated, and is lots of food for thought as I am really am struggling to see the best way to proceed. He really is a sweet, characterful pony who is cheeky but has a big personality and I enjoy having him around, but I'll be honest am not enjoying riding him, infact I haven't for over a week as I'm lucky that I've been hacking out last week with my daughter on my friends 2 who we ride regularly. So next steps are:

1) test for PSSM - how is the best way to dot his?
2) get the vet out again to examine coblet and discuss this months latest behaviour
3) proffessional rider/behaviouralist is waiting for me to me to get back to her but she's willing to do some work with him
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Others will be along with advise re 1 and 2, but when you get as far as 3 I personally would send him to professional for schooling, ride him a few times at her place and then bring him home and have her ride him from your yard, then you get on and ride out with her on foot a couple of times for on hand advise and support - if she is with you when issues arise she can always hop on and fix it there and then.
 
Test for PSSM - it's a hair test that involves pulling hair out by the roots. It's the roots that have the DNQ. Type 1 - the testing centre is in St Austell, Cornwall. https://animalgenetics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/UK-Equine-Submission-Form-2015.pdf Type 2 - the hair needs to be sent to here https://generatio.de/enwhich is in Germany. You can do the postage online on the Royal Mail site, print out the label & customs declaration, complete the details, stick it on the envelope & pop into a post box.

There are several PSSM/MIM support groups on FB (MIM is the 'new' name for type 2 PSSM as type 2 isn't to do with sugar storage so 'polysaccharide' doesn't apply. The full name for PSSM being Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy.) so it might be an idea to join some of them if you would like to do some research or ask questions.
 
catembi said:
Test for PSSM - it's a hair test that involves pulling hair out by the roots. It's the roots that have the DNQ. Type 1 - the testing centre is in St Austell, Cornwall. https://animalgenetics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/UK-Equine-Submission-Form-2015.pdf Type 2 - the hair needs to be sent to here https://generatio.de/enwhich is in Germany. You can do the postage online on the Royal Mail site, print out the label & customs declaration, complete the details, stick it on the envelope & pop into a post box.

There are several PSSM/MIM support groups on FB (MIM is the 'new' name for type 2 PSSM as type 2 isn't to do with sugar storage so 'polysaccharide' doesn't apply. The full name for PSSM being Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy.) so it might be an idea to join some of them if you would like to do some research or ask questions.
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Thanks so muchely for that, I've just completed the form, found a zip lock bag at work and labelled it all ready to pluck some hairs this evening and get it sent off ASAP. Having done some reading there are definately aspects of it that his behaviour correlates with eg working OK for 25-30 then "has enough" and starts his protestations, sweating profusely (but he is a hairy cob!) and his reluctance to canter on anyone but his terms. But he has never tied up with me or displays any muscular twitching etc.... but we shall see.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime whilst waiting for the results?
 
Join the FB groups & read others' experiences...? I don't want to be negative but will just mention that (as you'll quickly find out if you join a group!) there are no silver bullets. Whatever works for one horse doesn't work for another. Even basic things like vitamin E & triaminos (three specific amino acids which together are supposed to help PSSM horses) are contentious. E.g. vit E...people feed 2,000 iUs, or 5,000, or 8,000 or 10,000. Some people's horses need 10k for it to make a difference; some horses go loopy above 2k. Triaminos are supposed to be brilliant - mine went nuts on them, and I've heard of another couple with the same reaction. So if you feel overwhelmed because there doesn't seem to be any 'right answers' - it's not you, it's the fact that the whole thing is a trial & error nightmare because all horses are so different.

Or maybe leave that whole rabbit hole well alone until you know if it's what you're dealing with!
 
I was in one, or possibly 2 of the PSSM facebook groups. The cult mentality creeped me out. Anyone with any kind of science background or even just an open or enquiring mind who dared to question the all mighty equisec (none validated / disproved test process) was immediately set upon by cult members and / or booted from the group. If you believe in equisec then great, if you would like to entertain other thoughts not so good.
 
Kirstd33 said:
Thanks so muchely for that, I've just completed the form, found a zip lock bag at work and labelled it all ready to pluck some hairs this evening and get it sent off ASAP. Having done some reading there are definately aspects of it that his behaviour correlates with eg working OK for 25-30 then "has enough" and starts his protestations, sweating profusely (but he is a hairy cob!) and his reluctance to canter on anyone but his terms. But he has never tied up with me or displays any muscular twitching etc.... but we shall see.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime whilst waiting for the results?
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Tbh by the time a horse with Pssm1 gets to the tying up stage a lot of signals have been missed.

What are you feeding and what is your turn out regime? Your trainer sounded sensible so you could book in anyway and explain you are testing for pssm.

A slow steady warm up before any faster work is essential. 15-20 mins of walk work is best. Might also be worth trying a rug.
 
SEL said:
Tbh by the time a horse with Pssm1 gets to the tying up stage a lot of signals have been missed.

What are you feeding and what is your turn out regime? Your trainer sounded sensible so you could book in anyway and explain you are testing for pssm.

A slow steady warm up before any faster work is essential. 15-20 mins of walk work is best. Might also be worth trying a rug.
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The only tie up mine ever had was when we did a 2 day competition and i shovelled her full of recovery mash. It didn't look like a tie up, my bodyworker didn't even really pick it up as anything either, she just looked stiff and sore, so we put it down to travelling and hard work. Hind sight is amazing.
 
He is out 9-4 and in otherwise with as lib hay which he never finishes. I’ve stopped the soothe and gain so he has a scoop of top spec zero chaff and top spec lite balancer damped down twice daily. He’s unclipped currently and has a 50g rug on overnight
 
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