please can I have your view on this horse and a how much??

Ditto Lucyann89 - however I would say that sometimes it is necessary to have them pts - if they are really dangerous then is it worth breaking your neck to try and fix him. Fairs fair - give everything a chance - but sometimes its not possible to fix them all
 
Ads like this seem to appeal to a rider's ego - some people like the idea of being the one 'good enough' to tame a so-called dangerous horse.

In this instance, a good home should be the main issue - not making her money back, because quite frankly, this horse would not be worth an awful lot right now. It's all very well having potential, but not if the cost of realising it is so enormous.
 
I would first of all have its hocks x-rayed also id see if it had stomach ulcers ive known a few horses that play up (not everyday) that have bad stomach ulcers and when they flare up they are a nightmare !!

If this horse was truly naughty he would do it everytime you got him - but i dont think from the sounds of it he does !!
Id pay about £1500 and would then after all has been eliminated chuck it out in the field for atleast 6 months x
 
I would say that there is something seriously wrong with this horse- a chronic problem somewhere so its in serious pain.

Or it could just be messed up mentally but I'd like to give it the benefit of the doubt..

COuld very well be kissing spine and/or could simply be stomach/food digestion trouble.

My Forrest was a real nasty piece of work on the wrong food cos everything he ate was just giving him severe indigestion and low grade colic so he just didnt want to work and tried every trick in the book.

I would want this horse to have a full MRI scan and change of diet/diet elimination before I considered taking it on because I would say that is highly likely that there is a chronic problem there. Once I was satisfied that there is nothing hurting then I would think about taking it on- for meat money that is.

But I'd be very surprised if the owner hasnt had full MRI scans/x rays etc already ?? ( as its supposedly such a 'talented' horse!)
 
Interestingly staceytanglewood, i was thinking the exact same thing.

If someone is serious about it, id have everything x-rayed and then id throw it in a field, perhaps for even longer than that (assuming any physical issues found were something that could be dealt with).

Do you know when the horse was imported? Some of the horses that come over from Holland / Germany particularly change very very drastically when they hit the UK. They can be terribly over produced (although medium level at 8 doesnt sound horrendous tbh) and many of them aren't turned out at all having very strict routines. It doesn't always give a lot of time for "growing up" mentally or being a baby.

Ive worked on dressage yards primarily in the past and both the above mentioned countries have been origins for many of the horses passing through our yards. I knew (and owned for a while) one SJer who'd been pushed to jumping 1.40 and 1.50 at 4 years old, was working to about elementary level and a complete machine to ride when he arrived. Within literally a few months he broke down completly, wouldnt jump so much as a cross pole, bolted at anything and would turn himself inside out to get you off.. A year chilling, some basics re-established and he's turned out to be a lovely horse.

Equally with a dressage horse on my last yard, he was imported at 5 with not a great deal of knowledge of the movements but a terribly advanced outline (in appearance anyway) who'd clearly been over produced. Again, he turned into a total monster with his new owner who made the sensible choice to hand him over to a GP rider. He's 7 now.. he's still not 100% but he's much much better and he is, ultimately, going to make a very nice horse.

I agree with Tia completly. Too many people look in mainland europe for a superstar and don't take enough time to consider things thoroughly.

I dont know about price, i suppose it depends on the individual person and whether they are prepared to keep the horse should it break down completly or if they're going to need it to "do a job" or have to get rid of it.

My inclination would be to give him the benefit of the doubt.. throw it in a field and restart him next year making sure that whoever does it (and make no mistake, id be handing it to a GOOD professional rider who's experienced with starting babies and does so consistently with no faddy techniques) has the space to keep him and offer him some kind of life should he still be a problem.
 
If the horse is really as talented as you say it is, have they considered sending him to a top rider to compete (i.e. a really top rider), who might be able to get the best out of him and can handle his quirks? She could still be his owner but have him on livery and might get a lot of pleasure from seeing him do well in competition. Or she could see if they'll take him off her hands completely.

I don't want to sound rude but how good a rider is your friend? Horses from the continent are often trained to be ridden in a very different way from the ones over here. He may be objecting to her english aids because the way he's been taught to do things is different. You may find that when a really good rider gets on he behaves completely differently. It may be worth your friend having some lessons with a top dressage trainer to see what they think of the horse, you may find that but changing her way of riding the horses attitude will totally change as well.
 
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I think that having it 'put to sleep' is completely wrong - it is a horse who, at some point in it's life, has had a bad experience with a rider on their back, do you know the history of the horse?
In my opinion, the right thing to do would be to put it's future infront of money. It will no doubt need special and expensive tack, bits etc. anyway. I think you should aim to sell the horse to someone who is experienced and willing to take it rather than the person with the highest offer. I'm sure you'll find someone soon as it sounds like a really promising horse and there are plenty of people out there who specailise it that kind of stuff.

Good luck!

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well, it's nice to hear what everyone on here would do. I'm sure the horse would have a fab home. Unfortunately, in RL things don't work that way.
The current owner cannot guarantee that the new owner WOULD do all the nice kind things which should be done. Of course it should see a vet, it should see a back person, it should have a lovely saddle.... but in reality life just isnt like that. And people looking at that ad won't want to do that. they'll want a cheap horse they can prove themselves a fab rider on. The seller cannot 100% guarantee any home it goes to, or gets sold onto from there. Next week, it's probably more likely this horse will be sat on by some prat, ridden badly, beaten, then thrown into an auction ring doped up to the eyeballs, than it is it'll be stood tucked up in a nice stable with pretty rugs and the vet at it's beck and call. After the auction ring... same happens for the next 10 years. That isnt putting the horse first. Put the poor thing out of its misery if you cannot keep it as a companion.
 
i think your friend's probably got the right idea. if the owner paid a fortune for him, she should try to send him back... even a private seller can't lie about a horse being an easy ride when it's actually a nightmare. the price she paid for it is not anyone else's problem, and can't be passed on, if you know what i mean... it's worth what it's worth now, doing what it does.
since the horse is sometimes fine, sometimes impossible, i think it's definitely something physical. could be ulcers, could be a brain tumour, could be a problem with the vascular bundle in the horse's back (hope i've got that right) - i knew a horse years ago who had that problem, and was 100% one day, unrideable and very dangerous the next.
the wording on the ad's clever... it's a big carrot to say "this horse could take you to the Olympics" etc etc... the fact is, i'd personally rather have a trainable horse with a bit of talent than a megastar who won't be trained... and i've had both. the trainable horse got much much further!
would the owner maybe let your friend have it on loan for 6 months, with an option to buy at a decent price at the end, if it's getting sorted (say, £5k or sth)? then she's got a hope of getting some money, no livery expenses in between, and your friend has time to try to get to the bottom of it. just an idea.
 
there are people out there who would do the right thing with this horse, and that doesn't mean shooting it or keeping it as a companion... how boring for it, when it's only young. it is possible to guarantee the home one sells a horse to (i've done it twice, with contracts and promises to buy back immediately at any time for any reason).
recommending shooting the horse because no-one has worked out what its problem is, is pretty drastic, don't you think? there are people out there with time, patience, expertise and money, who would give this horse what it needs. it's just a case of finding the right person... as it always should be when selling any horse.
 
I had a very tricky horse similar(but not as bad) as the one you described.
He didn't try and bury you just was nappy- he was hannovarian x tb and the same age. I sold him for £1500. He should have been worth £12,000!
 
yes, no-ones saying it shouldnt have a chance. But surely the proffessional who has it atm would have seen its potential and tried vet, back person, etc etc?? It is perfectly possible to loan the horse out, or even sell it with a contract but if the owner cannot do this then she has to think what's best for the horse, not her pocket.
 
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there are people out there who would do the right thing with this horse, and that doesn't mean shooting it or keeping it as a companion... how boring for it, when it's only young. it is possible to guarantee the home one sells a horse to (i've done it twice, with contracts and promises to buy back immediately at any time for any reason).
recommending shooting the horse because no-one has worked out what its problem is, is pretty drastic, don't you think? there are people out there with time, patience, expertise and money, who would give this horse what it needs. it's just a case of finding the right person... as it always should be when selling any horse.

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Two points; firstly a contract is only worth the paper it is printed on, if your buyer didn't comply with the terms of the contract you would need to be able to take them to court, it is very unlikely that a court would insist on the new owner returning the horse to you, especially if it had increased substantially in value. You would also have to find the new owner (who isn't bound by your contract at all). The only way this could work is if you sold a percentage of the horse and retained title of a proportion of it.

Secondly, the idea that some generous person out there with extensive funds to fix horses will buy this horse is what leads to so many horses being offered for sale in this state. Somebody with ample funds will simply buy a better horse.

I am not saying there isn't an outside chance it couldn't be sorted, but if a professional is struggling with it, it certainly isn't something for a soft hearted amateur to take on. I have had horse with similar issues given to me as a last resort to sort out, the last one had to be PTS, there were issues in her spine that would never come right and caused her constant pain. I think her owner knew this all the time, but couldn't face making that decision, she was happy once I had investigated it and the hunt kennels were called with her permission. Sometimes people just want somebody else to take away the decision and action, instead of doing what should be done themselves.
 
Hi everyone1

Ok, thanks for all your input. Firstly my friend is a very experienced professional rider, just not with a big bank balance. He would have been given lots of time to come right and she would have gone down the 'investigation route' to rule out any physical problems.

The professional yard that he is on have confirmed that he is bad. The rider in the advert will not ride him, her husband does.... so that has to tell you something.

The new owner only brought him a month ago and was looking for a safe and sensible dressage horse, and was sold this horse! It appears she was conned and the horse has a history of being naughty. No idea how much she paid for the horse though.

I think the new owner thinks she will get back a decent amount - but there are no guarantees this horse will ever be reliable enough to compete to any level - and at 8 it is pretty established behaviour.

NO idea if he is an import or not.

If anyone is interested this horse is advertised on horsequest under sports horses.

My friend is not going to up her offer so unless they come back to her she will not buy him.

Thanks for all your advice though, nice to know others are thinking along the same lines.
 
Oh my god, it is as if the advertiser has read my mind about my horse and written it down!!! That is exactly what my advert would say if i was to sell my horse but i would never ever sell something with those types of "quirks". It is so dangerous if those type of horses fall into amature hands, people could get seriously hurt and it is so unfair for the horse to go from pillar to post. In my eyes my horse is worth nothing and anyone who tries to make any money from horses with those sorts of problems i perosnally think is veing very irresponsible.
 
xxKatyxx I agree with you. IMO the horse should see a variety of specialists..back, teeth, saddle, diet..but obviously that will be very expensive and even though every horse should be given a full chance, especially one as talented..Maybe after seeing all the specialists and spending at least 3k on everything, it's still not right? Most people just aren't willing to take that risk and that's understandable.
 
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