please, everyone with lovely 6yo's, tell me they were vile as 5yo's/!

'pony is 200% convinced he knows best and any half halt resulted in emergency stops, angry head shaking and/or spinning and any suggestion he may possibly want to bend round my leg = angry sideways kicking at my (soft,gentle,subtle, quiet as a mouse for fear of death) leg.deep joy.'

Hmm.... sounds familiar! My lad believes he ought to be allowed to do whatever he likes - schooling or competing.
He's 6 soon though, so I'm hoping for an improvement! :p Must say, we managed to do some nice work over the weekend (including some slightly random, unintentional flying changes!) so there might just be hope yet :D I'm sure your lad will decide to behave again when he's had his share of the fun!!
 
Our boy was a git, bucked, reared, napped etc he is now just turning 6 and is actually starting to turn the corner, went to a good sized show yesterday where he won the novice workers and the ride judge commented how well schooled he was. So there is hope at the end of the tunnel!
 
Tempi said:
Take him off the oats completely and look at feeing him something like simple systems feeds. All ''mixes'' have a high number of toxins which can block the lymphatic system and are not good for your horses liver as the ''chemicals'' can not be digested properly.

Feed a non molassed non sugar feed and a non molassed chaff such as TopChop Lite. As soon as i changed Bloss onto a feed system like this she was a different horse. I also put her on a liver tonic from Global Herbs to ''wash'' her system out. Once he has had a month on this sort of feed then think about introducing natural oats again, but i personally would change his feed first and let his body totally clean out first.
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Tempi, I really have to pull you up re the toxins! Do you honestly believe that reputable feed companies would sell feeds full of toxins! I do not know who has told you that but it is absolute rubbish - sorry do not mean to offend and I can guess at who spouted this particular brand of gobbledegook!

I do agree remove the oats and feed a low sugar/starch diet, there are lots of unmolassed chops out there including TopChop, Badminton do a practically identical one which is around £1 cheaper.
 
SirenaXVI said:
Tempi, I really have to pull you up re the toxins! Do you honestly believe that reputable feed companies would sell feeds full of toxins! I do not know who has told you that but it is absolute rubbish - sorry do not mean to offend and I can guess at who spouted this particular brand of gobbledegook!

I do agree remove the oats and feed a low sugar/starch diet, there are lots of unmolassed chops out there including TopChop, Badminton do a practically identical one which is around £1 cheaper.
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Sorry, I didnt actually mean toxins - what i was meaning was that high startch/molassed foods can be bad for some horses and sometimes a change of diet to something like simple systems can make all the difference. Ive had a long weekend, please by nice :(

Id like to know who you think has been ''spouting gobbledegook'' though? As you dont even know me, so would be highly interesting........
 
Tempi said:
Sorry, I didnt actually mean toxins - what i was meaning was that high startch/molassed foods can be bad for some horses and sometimes a change of diet to something like simple systems can make all the difference. Ive had a long weekend, please by nice :(

Id like to know who you think has been ''spouting gobbledegook'' though? As you dont even know me, so would be highly interesting........
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Ahh! Yes ALL cereals are high in starch and I agree too much starch and/or molasses is bad for the horse on that I completely agree and, unless the horse is working hard, the majority of horses do not require any cereals added to the diet. Interestingly the much maligned oat is the lowest in starch of all the cereals - go figure!

Re the spouting gobbledegook, I was not referring to a particular person, but I do know that one particular company has been dishing out some 'duff' info and the toxin thing was typical - it was that which I was referring to - was not a personal dig at you :)
 
See my use of toxins was aimed at startch/molases - well thats what my brain was determining it as in my sentance!! Hence i used it without really thinking (and possibly due to lack of sleep!)

Ive not read anything on the internet either, so didnt get it from there! Just general information ive gathered over the years, lol! :D
 
You know how bad my horse was in the arena,spooking, backing off the bridle, leaping and being a general pig. I spent a few months not competing but going out to as many different venues, clinics and warm up as I could and he had improved no end.
I also upped his work at home with 2 sessions a day every couple of days and fed him top spec calmer.
He has been in the top 3 ever since so it must be working!
 
Could it be that if his behaviour is only deteriorating at shows it could be more to do with a changed atmosphere than being diet related?
I know what you're saying about it coinciding with the spring grass and that could be contributing but if he's been ok previously on his current feed & you're not doing anythign different as regards his management & you've ruled out pain/discomfort perhaps he's just playing up as a result of the 'show day atmosphere' and getting a bit over-excited!!!!
My boy was an absolute dream as a 4 year old & right up to being about 7 or 8 and then he started finding his feet & started to know his own strength etc and we have had some rocky rides but for the most part he's a little sweetie! I've learned how to manage him when he does get his hair off and can diffuse the situation more quickly as long as I remember to stay relaxed & calm!!!!! ;)
He's the sort who is naturally very forward going & has lots of energy & needs no feed at all over summer and just a small tea in winter with ad-lib hay or haylage (and I have to be a bit careful with that too!). Too much feed or even just the wrong sort of stuff sends him doolally! :rolleyes:
ETS - the more work he gets the better he is now but he is 9 now so I'm tempted to say kick on with him but having said that my lad had an enforced extended holiday at almost 5 yr old (back issues which turned out to be nothing more than growing pains!) but he did come back stronger & better for it so there's plus sides of both ways I think! Sorry that was no help really was it?!
 
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ME !!

mine was a lovely 4yo did everything well never moaned or fussed then he became a 5yo but i must say i had his teeth done again after only having them done 4 months before and this really helped !! he has gone back to being a lovely 5yo though is a little more cheeky than at 4yo but i guess he is stronger now

where as the other one i bought as a 5yo and was a g!t till he was 8yo but he is super talented so ill forgive him x
 
I dont know what to suggest really other than give him the benefit of the doubt first before getting tough..

Jt was getting a bit cocky to ride, by that I mean he just started asking 'why?' all the time. He didnt do anything bad but he thought maybe he could stick in the odd small buck if he didnt feel like doing something or spooking out hacking. A few slaps with the whip (small slaps, tickles really) sorted him out but he still felt a bit, I dunno.. just not quite concentrating!

It culminated with our last test where he was actually good but distracted.. He warmed up a bit tense but nicely and then in the test we got four 4's for tense and distracted moments like striking off on the wrong leg, trying to canter down the centre line instead of trotting, doing rein back in halt when it wasnt asked for. He wasnt naughty at all, he just felt on his toes and not on my side.

I gave him time off after that, no work for 8 days. Like yours he hadnt done many competitions (2 to be precise!!) and he had been on 3 light training sessions away in the lorry (1 xc schooling, 1x dressage clinic, and 1x schooling in a different school). However I had figured that even though like you I dont work him in the school for more than 30 mins, he had actually learnt an awful awful lot since I got him in December. Including learning to jump.

Perhaps your boy has learnt so many new things that when it comes to the competition its just one more new thing (or pressured event) that he cannot fit in his brain? Perhaps it is not the amount of comps he's been too or the amount of work he's done but the amount hes actually learnt?

I brought JT back into work last week and hes been so so quiet, almost too lazy actually!! I thought with all the spring grass and 8 days off he was going to be a right wizz kid but the opposite was true, he was like a donkey!! First time I schooled him nothing was too much trouble and I hacked him round a huge field yesterday with my mum. He was happy to canter behind, smoothly and lovely and then hacked back across the field on a long rein with floppy, donkey ears :)

Ive got a few more training competitions coming up, some showjumping ect and then he will then have 2/3 weeks in July off. He will then do some more, perhaps finishing with a BE event and then he will have the whole of November off.

If your horse was my horse I would cut all hard fee out, give him 2 weeks off and then bring him back to work. If hes still being a kevin then I would do more trips ect like you said.

2 weeks is nothing really is it, he wont lose fitness and maybe it will just give him time to chill out a bit and come down from crazy comp horse mode?

My old horse went through a few phases when she was 5 but nothing major, I didnt really do much with her though untill she was 6 x
 
thank you all, lots to think about.

tempi-i know what you mean, i try and avoid starchy stuff as much as possible.he's on the winergy condition which i *think* is not that bad starch wise.....he really wouldnt survive on chaff and beet, he's not a great doer at all.i could down the mix and up his linseed-would that be any better?

im so utterly torn about what to do, im meant to be going to addington fri, and then vale view next weekend as originally everyone (friends,trainer) were saying he was being a toad and to get him out as much as possible, but now im not 100% convinced and not sure if a mini break might help more???

as you say-he hasnt worked hard physically but maybe he has leant a lot and is having brain meltdown?

oh god.someone tell me what to do!

he's had a day off today and i had intended to do a fun polework sesh for 20mins on tues, and then a half hour schooling sesh thur and then addington fri.day off say and a hack sun. and then a couple of days off early next week and 2 very easy sessions before vale view.hmmmmmm.
 
A lot of breeders/owners of youngsters all say that the 5 year old year is the worst! My 6yo was fab as a 5yo though, so who knows.

Personally, if he was mine I would do as you've said...........fun, easy, short session tomorrow and then a short schooling session on thurs, but nothing taxing on his brain. I'd also cut his feed right back, just for the next 2 weeks and see if there is any difference :)
 
I've got a 6yo ex-racer. He's well..he's not calm exactly, but he's been really good recently and we've only had a few mini tantrums. Last year he was regularly rearing and spinning and bucking, and generally being horrible. Actually getting downright nasty trying to chuck me off for any reason, was rearing/bucking in his stable, he tried to run me into walls, would kick, then rear and strike out with his front legs on the ground and under saddle. Every day was horrible, I'd lunge him and work him until he was pouring sweat and foam, but he'd still be a nightmare the day after to the point where I was not enjoying him at all.

As I said..now he's alright. We had a couple of little rears and mini explosions..and a few stops at jumps followed by rearing. But..its few and far between and last year I couldn't get him over a jump without him bolting off and broncing, trying to get me off afterwards. He jumped at his first show, and he started very tense spooking a lot and trotting like a saddlebred, but calmed down and jumped two clears....dressage shows are going much better. We can produce a good novice test, but he still is tense and jogs a bit etc etc.

So yes :P Whilst not always a 'lovely' 6yo, he has improved MASSES so I think last year was his very trying period for me.
 
I can't really generalise because I've had horses go in every conceivable direction but I would say many have a "young adult" phase when they're more or less fully grown at 5/6 when they're pretty sure the rider is not the boss of them.

I do find very much with horses, too, the only constant is change (stole that from a Chinese philosopher :) ) so even a horse with all the advantages is bound to have better and worse times.

On the subject of feed, I've had a few hotter/spookier types that seemed very sensitive to cereals in general. One stopped weaving (amongst other, scarier, behaviours) when she went on to a no sugar, no cereal diet and one I have right now turned extremely spooky and difficult on Staypower, even in a tiny, introductory amount, which everyone seemed to feel is pretty benign. I can't get what he used to eat so I've improvised with a forage-based pellet and rice bran and he's doing much better, physically and mentally on it. (I quite liked riding him when he was on the Staypower as he had bags of energy but it wasn't workable for the rest of his life.) I'm generally of the opinion that feed, like so many things, makes little difference to most horses but a great deal of difference to a few.

How's your saddle? I know his behaviour is only intermittently wild but it might be worth a check. A very round and fast maturing mare I rode changed saddle fit about 5 times over her five year old year. She wasn't always awful when the saddle started to pinch but would become prone to tantrums, particularly when she was tired/pushed.

If you've paid, I'd say go on the weekend unless you can find a good reason not to. If it all goes pear shaped again, then come home and reassess. I wouldn't say he's being a "toad" in the technical sense but the fact is life as a show horse is not all green fields and Polo mints, so it's possible this might simply be a situation where he has to accept he might every now and then have to do something he's not keen on. That said, if he's giving you reason to doubt him physically, that's obviously a different situation.
 
thats all very sensible, thanks TS :)

saddle-was only checked and slightly adjusted recently, and im so anal about it, it gets done 4/5 times a year, he's also 200|% perfect at home and out hacking so im fairly confident it isnt that.ditto teeth which were done recently and only needed *the usual* work, he gets done every 6 months.

just musing re feed-do they, or can they, become reactive to a feed they've been on for ages?

iv 99% made up my mind to go on fri, as im entered and yes, paid! so will see if he feels better (hopefully!) after i firmly (but fairly) wagon'd him round on sun and made the point he cant just down tools if he feels like it.
 
Take him out to a few unaffiliated jumping or Riding Club shows - anything but a dressage arena. It's fine jumping grids at home, but he needs to go out and do something other than dressage in a competition environment for a little while. Obviously dressage is your aim, so you're not going out BSJing or anything - just give him a change of scenery for a while.

Having brought on plenty of young dressage horses, I can assure you that they DO get bored so much more easily than a young event horse or a horse who is being brought out to do lots of different things.

It is much easier to get a horse to concentrate and pay attention when you are popping practise jumps and popping round a little course, than trying to keep his attention with lots of half halts and transitions on the flat.

That's my advice anyway - I have two 6 yr olds eventing and showing at the mo (had one since he was 3, the other since 2) and they have been so easy throughout, in comparison to the dressage divas I had over the years. I firmly believe that's because whenever they go out to a competition, they have plenty to do and their minds are keeping ticking over and they don't get bored.
However we want to look at it, dressage IS boring for young, busy horses.
 
slightly different for you as you're dressage, but if i have trouble at shows not at home i assume its excitiablity/mental issue and i will take it to a multiday show for 3 or 4 days make it stay there and work it hard, write off days 1&2 as regards good results and by day 3/4 they are usually fine and settled again. then so long as you keep up the shows regularly they are ok.
is that an option?
 
Actually, I meant to mention that too. I posted above saying that my 6yo was horrible last year. I forgot to mention part of the reason I think he's improved so much lately is the change. We moved yards, he's now jumping 95-1m fences at home happily, doing courses..he does some dressage, we do a lot of jumping flatwork, we work out in the big (huuuuge) field on the property sometimes, and I take him for a gallop up the field, and a trot down, then a gallop up again, trot down again etc. We walk out around the walk/trot track, mostly alone but sometimes with other people.
We've also got a double ring, so he free jumps bigger fences occasionally..initially we free jumped him once or twice a week to get him into the habit, but only up to 1m or so..now he rarely does it..sometimes we put up some to help him get his eye in a bit and gain some confidence in his own ability to jump, rather than in mine to set him up. He jumps big fences occasionally in there, but very occasionally.
And he sometimes just gets let in there to gallop and buck and the like, lets him use up his 'fresh, crazy' kinda energy.

I thought his dressage would suffer a bit but actually its gotten much better and I think its because he's more willing. Before he was getting bored and getting him to cooperate at all was like getting a potato to talk, because he doesn't really know what he's going to be asked to do, and if it is dressage he doesn't mind because he knows that he won't be doing it the next day or what have you. :)
 
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There is a lot to be said for the "bit of this, bit of that" approach and most horses do benefit - physically and mentally - from variety, although I would say it depends a bit on the individual and many horses clearly do very well only doing one job. One thing it can bring up are weaknesses in training, which is always a good thing.

I do think the multi-day show option is particularly useful, although it seems much harder to do in the UK. Multiday shows are very common in North America and many people take their young horses to "ride around" even before they show. It's great to be able to take them out a couple of times a day, do as many or as few tests as you think you need to do, and generally have them exposed to the atmosphere but not under pressure every minute. I don't know how possible it would be for the OP but I'd definitely rate it as a suggestion if all the easier options don't yield the desired results.

On the feed question, I'm not so sure horses "develop" a problem with a feed they've been on but given that pressures are collective rather than individual, a horse that's been ridable enough on one option in one circumstance might be less so when other things change. As I said, for lots of horses it makes no difference at all but for some it makes a huge difference so with certain types of horses it's always something I try. It won't hurt to try a cereal-free option and if it helps him even somewhat, it might be the "in" to get him back on the program.
 
Yes, very familiar. Bought my horse towards the end of his 5th year. Had loads of challenges to deal with. Very nappy. Took 15mins to get bridle on, 20 mins to get off yard and 15 mins to put him back in stable. One day napped in every gateway within 1/4 mile of yard, 7 in total. Got a noisy whacky stick did the trick without any harm. Would run through shoulder so we ended up down wrong end of school etc. etc. Was only good when doing what he liked - jumping. Carried on until he was 7 year old. Now 9 yrs a blessing really good and competing well. Some just take time to grow up!
 
As a 5yr old.
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As a rising 6 yr old.
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He won his first ever nov. wh and was reserve champ wh, 3rd small ridden hunter both in good company. And he was ridden by a male and female judge. Hopefully he is now turning the corner.
 
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