Please help - at the point of giving up :(

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chestnuttyy

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Apologies in advance for the long post, but feel as though I need to explain the situation...

I bought my horse about a year ago (7yr old TB). He was advertised as an 'ideal first horse' and when I went to see him/ try him he was great. He's not the first horse I've owned, I had my last horse from a foal and broke him and brought him on. I was well aware that he would need a lot of schooling when I bought him, but I was prepared to do this.

Basically, I got off to a pretty ropey start with him. He isn't the 'ideal first horse' he was advertised as and would regularly do huge rears whilst out hacking and was generally very difficult. I put this down to a lack of experience (and the fact that the previous owner/idiot was riding him in a saddle with a broken tree) and that he found working quite difficult. Since then, we had turned huge corners - he will hack out on his own now (with just a few problems) and our schooling got to the point where we were about ready to start think about doing baby dressage tests.

Over the last month or so, we've flown back to square one. He's possibly even worse now than when I bought him. In the school he will charge around doing a 'canter' I can only describe as bunny hopping, then if I TRY to get him to work properly he will sometimes rear. He has also started trying to evade working by rearing up then plunging forward so violently it ends up whipping my neck back. He'll fly backwards, throw himself/ me at fences, walls, hedges.

I've had his back and teeth checked in the last month and I had his saddle fited about 6 months ago (he hasn't changed shape since then). I've had lessons but I just don't seem to be getting anywhere.

I guess the options are:
  • sell him (would obviously sell honestly in which case i doubt I'd get much for him)
  • Send him away to someone to see if they can make any progress
  • Keep on trying

What would you do if you were in this situation? I love this horse to bits, he's an immensly good natured horse on the ground, but riding is a whole other story.

Choccie biscuits and a glass of wine for anyone who's read this far.
 
I would get a second, and possibly third, opinion on all the physical stuff and have the saddle checked again. If his back was sore from a broken tree, any slight miss fit of the saddle could set him off again. Hope you can sort it out.
 
The first thing I'd do is get the saddle checked again, almost all horses change shape with the seasons, then I'd check the fit of his bridle. Then I'd get 2nd opinions on everything else, including vet checks. It does sound as if this horse is uncomfortable, to say the least.
 
I'd also have a really good think about what has changed in the past couple of months since he got bad again. Paddock? Length of turnout? Feed? Exercise regime?
 
I would rack my brains for anything that's changed - feed / turnout / changes in the herd / tack / confidence... then if I couldn't think of anything that might have caused it i'd double check everything again to make double triple sure that nothing has changed teeth / saddle / shape wise. I'd get the vet or physio back out to do an mot to rule out pain. Failing anything being found then I'd seek a recommendation for a good trainer in your area, specifically one that works with problems.

Nothing changed for you health /emotion wise that could be affecting him?

Really hope you can work it out :( its rotten when things are going wrong xxx
 
I would find a decent trainer and send him away for them to have a go & be prepared for it to take a while maybe a change of scenery and a different rider will help, no disrespect to you or your riding but I sometimes think horses and riders learn to anticipate each other even if you aren't aware of it- I'm guilty of this!

I would also rule out the pain factor- even though you have had teeth checked new saddle etc-maybe it would be worth getting chairopractor , physio & vet to look him over thoroughly & rule out conditions that may be causing him pain could be anything from trapped nerve to kissing spines or OCD
Good Luck with whatever your decision is!:)
 
maisie06 said:
Sounds like he is in pain somewhere. Have you had a full work up by a vet when you say back check?
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I had a chartered physio give him a full assessment. She concluded that his back was extremely supple and that it was highly unlikely that was what was causing the issues.

I did think about getting the vet to come and give him a thorough check, but the thing with him is he's an extremely stressy individual anyway, and when he exhibits this 'behaviour' it's like he doesn't know what to do with himself rather than a sudden reaction to pain. Of course, I may be wrong.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
I'd also have a really good think about what has changed in the past couple of months since he got bad again. Paddock? Length of turnout? Feed? Exercise regime?
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Sorry I should have mentioned this. He's turned out 24/7 as he gets quite stressy in his stable. His exercise regime is the same as it always has been (schooling/ hacking 5-6 times a week).

The only thing that has changed recently is that he has developed a large splint. However he's not been lame on it what so ever and the vet told me to carry on riding as normal
 
Eeek he sounds dangerous! I would stop riding him and get him fully checked by the vet. Sounds like something is hurting, they dont normally react that violently unless they hurt, especially as he was ok and now hes getting worse.
 
Faracat said:
How about talking to your Vet RE a bute trial?
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You know, I hadn't thought of this but what a good idea. I think I will give the vet call tomorrow and discuss what's been happening with him, if they come out and can't find anything then a bute trial wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

The physio that came to do the assessment did have a good look at his saddle, and whilst she isn't a qualified saddler she was pretty confident that it fitted him well.
 
As a start point I would get the vet to use the hoof testers on the feet , do a full set of flex tests and have a feel of his back.
That ought not to cost a great deal and might throw light on what's going on
 
I'd check the saddle, review his diet and exercise regime.
My gelding is usually lovely and calm. The slightest imbalance on his saddle (we are talking deepest point half an inch too far back ...) and he goes bonkers, bucks, throws himself to the floor etc. Also he cannot have any cereal or high calorie stuff, not even a lick. He must have ad lib hay on the other hand.
he works a couple if hours every day and has turnout.
At the moment we have a lot of fresh grass where the weather has changed ... He can be a bit funny with that, too. In other words we constantly have to assess his calorie intake and exercise regime to keep him sane ;-)
 
I would consider having a friend on a calm horse in the school to show him what to do (that's what my horse it's used for)and if that doesn't work if you are getting fed up it will get harder yi perciver
 
If everything checks out as ok re: pain, then I'd be tempted to just turn him away with some company for a chill-out winter and see what the spring brings. It'll give him time out mentally and physically and also avoid you having a battle on your hands when you start to race the light as Autumn approaches.

Good luck with him - it's a nightmare when you can't find reasons for things going backwards...
 
muffinmunsh said:
I'd check the saddle, review his diet and exercise regime.
My gelding is usually lovely and calm. The slightest imbalance on his saddle (we are talking deepest point half an inch too far back ...) and he goes bonkers, bucks, throws himself to the floor etc. Also he cannot have any cereal or high calorie stuff, not even a lick. He must have ad lib hay on the other hand.
he works a couple if hours every day and has turnout.
At the moment we have a lot of fresh grass where the weather has changed ... He can be a bit funny with that, too. In other words we constantly have to assess his calorie intake and exercise regime to keep him sane ;-)
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Re the diet, i completely know where you're coming from. All he has is a handfull of Mollicaff calmer and a dollop of Speedi Beet with his balancers in. He's on a decent sized paddock but I've chopped it down so he doesn't have a great deal of grass. I'm really careful with his diet.
 
Either the splint is causing pain or whatever caused him to develop the splint is causing pain, I'd guess. Saddle could have changed fit in the last 6mths and I'd have him checked for pain all over by a vet. Horses don't suddenly go bad for no reason. He can't scream any louder.

One last thought. Who feeds him? Any chance he's been getting extra? I was on full livery once but supplied my own feed. Summer came, I cut feed down to chaff. Went through every bit in existance due to lack of brakes, put it down to fitness of horse. Then 4mths later I saw the feed. Oh he refuses to eat just chaff and vitamins, we've been giving him some of our mix. Competition mix! Half a scoop twice a day!
 
I would suggest getting a friend who has a more experienced and calm horse to ride in the school with u (that is what my horse is used for) also if that doesn't work it will get harder to keep on going and you may not try as hard with him asyou have before if that does happen I suggest you have him professionally trained

I hope that this helped.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
Either the splint is causing pain or whatever caused him to develop the splint is causing pain, I'd guess. Saddle could have changed fit in the last 6mths and I'd have him checked for pain all over by a vet. Horses don't suddenly go bad for no reason. He can't scream any louder.

One last thought. Who feeds him? Any chance he's been getting extra? I was on full livery once but supplied my own feed. Summer came, I cut feed down to chaff. Went through every bit in existance due to lack of brakes, put it down to fitness of horse. Then 4mths later I saw the feed. Oh he refuses to eat just chaff and vitamins, we've been giving him some of our mix. Competition mix! Half a scoop twice a day!
Click to expand...

Oh gosh that's awful! No, I'm in full control of his feeds and he gets next to nothing (see previous post).

I've decided to call the vet tomorrow. I was convinced he's in pain, that's why I've had teeth, back etc done but as nothing showed I was started to feel like I was being a bit of a hypochondriac with him.
 
ods rules said:
I would suggest getting a friend who has a more experienced and calm horse to ride in the school with u (that is what my horse is used for) also if that doesn't work it will get harder to keep on going and you may not try as hard with him asyou have before if that does happen I suggest you have him professionally trained

I hope that this helped.
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This isn't a bad idea actually. I think I'll have him checked by the vet before I do anything else with him, but if the vet gives him the all clear then I might try this.
 
Are you sure that he IS seven? If they lied about him being a first horse, they could also have lied about his age!!
 
Fii said:
Are you sure that he IS seven? If they lied about him being a first horse, they could also have lied about his age!!
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Yeah he's definitely 7. He was passported by weatherbys and was bred by an extremely reputable breeder in Ire.

He doesn't act like a 7 yr old, but I put that down to the fact that a) he'd done next to nothing when I bought him and b) the majority of his sire's offspring are late to mature
 
my horse is extremely sensitive to feeds and ingredients, he can't have anything with molasses (Molichaff has it), or sugar beet - would send him bonkers.
Both of those things could tip a grain and/or sugar sensitive horse over the edge. I did a lot of research into feeds and nutrition, in a quest to get the right thing for my horse (to make him sane and ride-able). I've experimented with a lot of different things...and found really that he is intolerant of molasses and sugarbeet, alfalfa and grains....which has made finding the right feed difficult.
I tried Simple Systems - a good simple feeding regimen, but I found that it was a hassle as you need to soak the lucerne nuts for 24 hours.
This company also does feeds for sensitive individuals: http://www.thepurefeedcompany.com/ - Jason Webb from Australian Horse Training (he works with remedial horses) - uses these feeds at his place, and some other remedial trainers recommend this feed.

What I have found works for mine, is grass (turnout), soaked hay, and I feed him Allen & Page "Fast Fibre" - it provides all the nutrients for a balanced diet but it has no heating ingredients or sugars in it. If you call Allen & Page's customer line and explain the issue to them, they'll send you some samples, maybe even send a free bag of feed to try. So, mine gets Fast Fibre 2 KG per day across 3 feeds per day, and he is in competition level work 5 times per week, like yours. It keeps the weight on him, and it made a difference in his ridden temperament within a few days.

I'd try changing his diet ASAP, since yours sounds like he could be sugar sensitive like mine. The sugar beet would make mine behave the same as yours.

I hope this helps.
 
I would get a full work up done by a vet!! If he was going so well there must be a reason behind it.

Also my horse has just been diagnosed with sacriolliiac disfunction. It took 3 different physios and 2 vets to diagnose her. And it was only when I kicked up a fuss about the original diagnosis and asked for a second opinion that they agreed to do a bone scan and we finally got to the bottom of it.

Not saying this is what your horse has but just saying that just because one professional said they think he is ok, doesn't necessaily mean they are right.

Hope u get to the bottom of it soon.
 
Andiamo said:
my horse is extremely sensitive to feeds and ingredients, he can't have anything with molasses (Molichaff has it), or sugar beet - would send him bonkers.
Both of those things could tip a grain and/or sugar sensitive horse over the edge. I did a lot of research into feeds and nutrition, in a quest to get the right thing for my horse (to make him sane and ride-able). I've experimented with a lot of different things...and found really that he is intolerant of molasses and sugarbeet, alfalfa and grains....which has made finding the right feed difficult.
I tried Simple Systems - a good simple feeding regimen, but I found that it was a hassle as you need to soak the lucerne nuts for 24 hours.
This company also does feeds for sensitive individuals: http://www.thepurefeedcompany.com/ - Jason Webb from Australian Horse Training (he works with remedial horses) - uses these feeds at his place, and some other remedial trainers recommend this feed.

What I have found works for mine, is grass (turnout), soaked hay, and I feed him Allen & Page "Fast Fibre" - it provides all the nutrients for a balanced diet but it has no heating ingredients or sugars in it. If you call Allen & Page's customer line and explain the issue to them, they'll send you some samples, maybe even send a free bag of feed to try. So, mine gets Fast Fibre 2 KG per day across 3 feeds per day, and he is in competition level work 5 times per week, like yours. It keeps the weight on him, and it made a difference in his ridden temperament within a few days.

I'd try changing his diet ASAP, since yours sounds like he could be sugar sensitive like mine. The sugar beet would make mine behave the same as yours.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, I adjusted his diet quite a lot when I had the first set of issues, and he was going very nicely whilst on the same diet that he's on now. I cut out as much molasses/sugar I could, hence he ended up on Mollichaf calmer and Speedi Beet - both of which I believe have a low molases/sugar content. Fast fibre is something I looked at actually (instead of of Speedi Beet) so I could give that a try but I have a feeling that his behvaiour isn't food related this time :(
 
Thanks for all your help everyone, my action plan is going to be as follows:

Vet out to do a full assessment
If vet finds nothing - saddle checked by a different Master saddler.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and hope we can solve this. I really don't want to have to reach the stage of selling.

xx
 
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