Please help FeuFolet she is STUMPED on this one ....

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Agent XXX999

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Is there anyone on here who is a lawyer or can give me some legal advice? Basically, need to know where I stand if I bought a horse and it went lame 8 days later. 5/10 lame, reduced with fetlock joint nerve block and completely sound when you block from the fetlock joint down.

Bought from dealer who said it had had 5 stage vetting – waiting for the proof now. We have spent over £60k with this guy over the years and have had no reason to think he would do us over – however 8 days at home and the horse is buggered! He knew we wanted to bring the horse on and sell it next year.

He is refusing to budge even though the vet has said the lameness is being caused by long term damage, and the horse may have been medicated (hence it may not have shown up on bloods)

Bit of a strange one and we are confused!
 
If you didn't get it vetted yourselves then i doubt you've got a leg to stand on....no pun intended....unless you can somehow prove that the dealer knowingly sold you a lame horse
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Was vetted a month before, but my vet is willing to testify that he problems are arthritic and have been around for a prolonged period of time.

Have got a receipt, yes – we part exchanged him for one of our horses (which kept, not to sell on) and paid cash on top. We are currently approx. £20k out of pocket! ARGH!
 
Oh no, Im sorry. Yeah as above, vetting only valid on day and if it was done a while before you purchased I dont think you have a come back. Are you a member of BE or anything? You can get free legal advise with Blythe Liggins if so. If not, be worth a phone call anyway.

They ad. in H & H. Equine specialists and friends mum works there so I know they are good.
 
Best equine lawyer I know is Helen Niebuhr at Darbys in oxford, but on the face of it I think you are stuck..the only person you may have a claim against will be the person that did the 5* vetting, if you can see the evidence of it, but even that isn't relevant if not very recent
 
Waht does it say on the receipt? Personally I think you've got a case because the horse is not fit for the purpose it was sold for. You should have more come back because you got the horse off a dealer not as a private sale.
BHS ,BD, BE , BSJA all have legal heplines that would be worth a ring if you are a memeber of any of those?
 
im not being funny, but did you not get it vetted yourself? My Archie had had a 5stage about 6 months previous to when i brought him, i still had another 5stage done tho.....

 
I thought as much. I actually cannot believe this is happening. We didn’t get the horse vetted because we have always bought horses from this person and they have been fine. The horse was sound when we got him, but the vet thinks that the fact he is working harder (he has only been doing light schooling and hacking with us) has triggered the arthritis.

He is only 4.5 so it’s a bit sad really. We haven’t even had him long enough to sort out insurance or anything.
 
There was a big legal case a few years ago when a show jumper sold a grade a mare for mega money and it turned out it had long term lameness problems, they won ALOT of compensation because they proved that the seller knew about this problem before he sold it to them and didn't disclose the information. It was all over H&H (I can PM you the name of the people involved it might help you because it was so high profile that it had all the details of the case in the magazine)
 
This is going to sound very harsh and i don't mean it to.....but what on earth were you thinking spending that sort of money on a horse and not having it vetted
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How long did the dealer have him? Was the horse vetted when purchased by the dealer?
If so, you really need the dealer on your side. I know of a similar case to this. Show horse was vetted, passed with flying colours. 6 months down the line, incurably lame. Digging was done and turned out a vet and injected its joints 2 weeks before the vetting. They had no comeback because it was so far down the line, were £30k out of pocket.
I dont know whether youd have a greater chance because its all happened relatively quickly.
 
That was a very sad case indeed...and one that was close to my heart...but the key was that they could prove the vendor knew about the condition when the horse was sold
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I know it is our fault for trusting the dealer like we did. We have had some amazing youngstock from him over the past few years. He has bought some of them back from us for his own use so we have no reason not to trust what he said.

Logic would say have a vetting however when you trust someone like that and the horse has had a vetting a month before (and then not done anything other than go on a horsewalker and lightly hack) you don’t dream that it is going to develop into 5/10ths lame broken pony.

Really upset on both counts as I don’t want to fall out with people that have become friends, but neither do we want to be left with a useless horse 8 days after buying it. It was supposed to go up in value, not down!
 
Maybe the dealer wasn't really the one at fault here, he could quite as easily have bought the horse and sold it on to you in good faith? (Don't know all the facts surrounding the case though).
If you have a good relationship with the dealer try and find out where he got the horse from ...
 
You are covered by sale of goods legislation because you bought from a dealer (wouldn't apply in a private sale) - seeking legal advice is a good first step. I've taken this section of advice from an article in Horse and Hound:-

If you find your new horse has a problem, making him unsuitable for the purpose you bought him, you're entitled to your money back – even if the dealer denies knowledge.

The Sale of Goods Act implies certain conditions of sale – your 'statutory rights'.

These are:

1. The horse must be of 'reasonable' or 'satisfactory' quality – for instance, free of defects such as lameness – unless you have prior knowledge and accept the condition.

2. The new horse must be fit for the purpose for which it was generally sold, or any purpose made known at the time of the agreement.

3. He must be 'as described'. If your new eight-year-old turns out to be over 18, it's a breach of trading standards.

Further explanation here in this article written by a solicitor
http://www.herefordequestrian.co.uk/THINKING%20ABOUT%20BUYING%20A%20HORSE.pdf

If one or all of these criteria are not met, you may be entitled to a full refund or the difference in value between the horse you thought you were buying and the one you got.

Very often a solicitors letter pointing out the above will induce the dealer to take the horse back. So you are not scuppered, no.
 
Rambo – I know. We are completely crazy.

The fact is that if the joint was medicated it would not have shown up on bloods anyway. I am kicking myself.

He could flex the joint when we got him and not now. It has something to do with him working – I have no doubt that he would have passed the vet when we got him – he was sound, this has happened over the past 8 days.

Clearly we are lunatics!
 
As rambo said, the key will be proving that the dealer knew. I work at a vets and a client has a similar case at the mo. But they cant prove the seller knew there was a problem. And if he deals and only had it for a short time he may not have know/could argue that he didnt know!

Poor horse tho, very young.
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also talk to local Trading standards - the dealer is subject to goods and services act and might well have sold the thing but you should be subject to a free repair (bit difficult with a horse) or a free replacement

If you bought by credit card then you would also have protection from your credit card company - another reason why I load up credit cards whenever I buy anything major - e.g. TV or generator or whatever - NEVER by debit card - always by credit card - and if it's a 'cheque' deal then try and use a credit card cheque covered by a legally binding agreement that the 'goods' are held/owned by a solicitor whilst the credit card cheque clears
 
Ooops! What a nightmare. I am so sorry; I know not a lot about this sort of thing but I wish you well.
 
Your vet cert is valid for 30 days only but only covers the day it was done. Im Sorry but I think you have been done over this time. I cant understand why you took the horse on without seeing the cert and suggest you get in touch with the vet who is supposed to have done the 5 stage not only to make sure there is a cert but also to make sure its for the correct horse.

Im not sure where you stand now that you have had nerve blocks done. presumeably you arent treating the condition just diagnosing it? its possible that the dealer may be able to refuse to take back the horse or whatever if you have actually sterted treating it.

I wish you luck that he has a change of heart.
 
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