Please help, last chance for my rehomed lurcher.

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suebou

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Husband and I rehomed a 10 month old bedlington/ whippet who was ‘too much for his owners ‘. We are fairly experienced owners, husband breeds occasionally and trains gundogs to a good standard.
Harris has been neutered and we’ve spent 6 months teaching some general house rules. It seems he was never taught ‘no’ in any context from worktop surfing, to opening doors if left in house not contained, to being unable to ‘go and lie down’. All going reasonably with occasional blips which we’ve worked through…..mostly.
However, it has become clear that he is very keen to guard me from husband, if he’s sitting near me and oh comes past, Harris mutters and mumbles and is not keen to back down.
Tonight H took my slipper, came back to me with it and when OH sat on separate sofa, Harris was sat in front of me seriously telling OH to stay away. Obviously we didn’t let it escalate but it really felt that the dog may have a go.
OH was understandably pretty unhappy and is serious about H being put down. We have 3 dogs in house, living 99% in harmony. I will chat to the kennels we got him from but I am very keen to see if there’s a solution/ way forward.
I would be interested in thoughts, OH idea of compromise is that dog lives in kennel and I am walking and feeding him. This is not a solution, and I really need to present a way forward, OH will compromise if I bring some options but is (rightly) not prepared to live with a dog who may well bite.
I’d appreciate some help, I am gutted, I think he’s a great dog and it’s maybe partly my fault as I do nearly all domestic interaction with him.
 
He's probably protecting himself/his resource rather than you, you just happen to be there/are near the resource/are the resource. This is an insecurity thing rather than a Big Brave Dog thing.

The rest (counter surfing/door opening) sounds like typical young lurcher behaviour.

If your OH does not like him, the dog will know, and it is not fair to expect him to live in a house where someone actively dislikes him.

It sounds like this is the boiling point of a series of incidents and that is your first mistake, with the best will in the world, it shouldn't have been allowed to get to this stage 'what you allow is what will continue'.
What was the previous reaction to growling?
Every time he growled and nothing happened, good or bad, fixed nothing and especially if the threat moved away, it worked for him. Meeting aggression with aggression also generally doesn't work.

IMO dogs like this need to have their worlds made very clear, very black and white.
He would wear a short house line at all times. He would not be allowed on or near the sofa. He had forfeited his right to be anywhere comfy or elevated. He would be on his bed or if unaccompanied, in a crate or in a house pen. He would be spoken to very little. He would get all his food from my hand. He would go out for walks and to the toilet with me, on a lead, at all times. His world would become very small and controlled.
In an ideal scenario, your husband would be the person doing all of that.
And once that becomes a way of life, you can see how much you can take the stabilisers off and bring some privileges back into his life.

Some dogs just can't live that idyllic life we imagine for them and have to be managed. If you and OH don't want to do that then send him back.
 
My dog when younger did similar for a short while with my OH, not so as aggressively as yours with grumbling when your OH is near you, but those kinda vibes were given for a while.

Your last sentence gives a clue to potential resolution, maybe?
I was similar to you with my dog, i did all the feeding, training and walks. My OH didnt. Barely any interaction except let out and call in.
He was, perhaps as as CC points out, not as valuable a resource as i was, being the feeder and carer.

We decided my OH was to start to feed them (i had more than 1 dog then) their main meaty meal. Daily. I still did training, treats etc….but OH fed the main meal to them.
This worked. She started to go to him for fuss etc. lay beside him.

Maybe this could help your situation if your OH fed them?
 
Is he neutered? I had a male dog who would wee in the house, but only when my husband was in the room, he would do it right in front of OH even if he had just come I. From a walk. I worked with a vet and asked his advice, he said it was a male to male problem (the dog was very much mine). Vet advised neutering. Had it done and the problem went away immediately.
 
suebou said:
Husband and I rehomed a 10 month old bedlington/ whippet who was ‘too much for his owners ‘. We are fairly experienced owners, husband breeds occasionally and trains gundogs to a good standard.
Harris has been neutered and we’ve spent 6 months teaching some general house rules. It seems he was never taught ‘no’ in any context from worktop surfing, to opening doors if left in house not contained, to being unable to ‘go and lie down’. All going reasonably with occasional blips which we’ve worked through…..mostly.
However, it has become clear that he is very keen to guard me from husband, if he’s sitting near me and oh comes past, Harris mutters and mumbles and is not keen to back down.
Tonight H took my slipper, came back to me with it and when OH sat on separate sofa, Harris was sat in front of me seriously telling OH to stay away. Obviously we didn’t let it escalate but it really felt that the dog may have a go.
OH was understandably pretty unhappy and is serious about H being put down. We have 3 dogs in house, living 99% in harmony. I will chat to the kennels we got him from but I am very keen to see if there’s a solution/ way forward.
I would be interested in thoughts, OH idea of compromise is that dog lives in kennel and I am walking and feeding him. This is not a solution, and I really need to present a way forward, OH will compromise if I bring some options but is (rightly) not prepared to live with a dog who may well bite.
I’d appreciate some help, I am gutted, I think he’s a great dog and it’s maybe partly my fault as I do nearly all domestic interaction with him.
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I think it is important to have as much information as possible.

At what age was he neutered?
Why?

Could you list the unwanted behaviours.
What did you/OH do to stop each one? Could you explain.

How have you been training him? Reward based force free or corrections/punishment?

If the relationship with your husband has broken down and Harris doesn't trust him, this is not a reason to put Harris to sleep.

Either rebuild the trust/relationship or rehome.

He could do well in a new home. Give him that chance.
 
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skinnydipper said:
I think it is important to have as much information as possible.

At what age was he neutered?
Why?

Could you list the unwanted behaviours.
What did you/OH do to stop each one? Could you explain.

How have you been training him? Reward based force free or corrections/punishment?

If the relationship with your husband has broken down and Harris doesn't trust him, this is not a reason to put Harris to sleep.

Either rebuild the trust/relationship or rehome.

He could do well in a new home. Give him that chance.
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All of this ^^^

Please get a good, qualified behaviourist involved before you send him back. His world has been turned upside down, he is adolescent, neutered early, so much going on that can be helped with the right behaviour modification plan going forward.
 
CorvusCorax said:
IMO dogs like this need to have their worlds made very clear, very black and white.
He would wear a short house line at all times. He would not be allowed on or near the sofa. He had forfeited his right to be anywhere comfy or elevated. He would be on his bed or if unaccompanied, in a crate or in a house pen. He would be spoken to very little. He would get all his food from my hand. He would go out for walks and to the toilet with me, on a lead, at all times. His world would become very small and controlled.
In an ideal scenario, your husband would be the person doing all of that.
And once that becomes a way of life, you can see how much you can take the stabilisers off and bring some privileges back into his life.

Some dogs just can't live that idyllic life we imagine for them and have to be managed. If you and OH don't want to do that then send him back.
Click to expand...
I think you should heed this advice in the meantime, if only to keep yourself , OH and your other dogs safe
 
If there are dogs in a household with more than 1 adult, imo every adult *must* be involved in the day to day care/
dealings with every dog, regardless of who officially owns the dog.
The only thing I wouldn't follow CC's advice on is the hand feeding because I would involve husband in feeding the dog and I would want all the dogs to be fed at the same time, not singling the lurcher out for special treatment in any way.
 
Thank you for all replies.
He was neutered at 11 months just after we got him.
Husband does all feeding but Harris tends to hang out with me, I do main big walks with two other inside dogs. We share the letting out for wee/ quick blast round field stuff.
His general behaviour is pretty good, he doesn’t try to get on sofa, he’s a lively puppy and loves to play, he has plenty of toys, none of which he guards. Both the other two dogs and us can get things from him easily.
I agree that oh ‘not liking him’ is not a rehome/put down reason!
He responds to a firm No for errors in house, swiping toilet roll, socks , starting a bit of a dig on rugs etc. sometimes he gets a treat but not every good behaviour is rewarded because I am only asking for a civilised pet! He’s not massive on food treats anyway.
initially his world was very contained as CC advises ( not hand fed tbh)
M/his/our issue is the low grumbling/growling at OH n very specific circumstances - OHis big with a deep voice and I wonder if H is un nerved a bit - doesn’t help when he’s growling tbf! He’s not maintaining eye contact during the very isolated incidents.
 
Dogs don't tend to be bothered with treats if they know they're getting a big bowl of food anyway once or twice a day.

Dogs don't come out of the womb knowing how to be civilised pets. Unless it's a very calm dog with no play or prey drive, I wouldn't allow a young, new dog free rein of the house and put it in a position to do these things in the first place. It's like taking a toddler to the adventure play park and expecting it not to try any of the equipment. Dogs like these often have to be engaged and then put somewhere safe to rest so that they don't have to self-entertain.

I'm sure your OH can lighten his voice and change his vibe a bit. Also come at the dog from the side, not tower over him, lighten up a bit. If he can't change to adapt to different dogs then he maybe needs to refresh his training.
 
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Pearlsasinger said:
The only thing I wouldn't follow CC's advice on is the hand feeding because I would involve husband in feeding the dog and I would want all the dogs to be fed at the same time, not singling the lurcher out for special treatment in any way.
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I know this is probably a breed/household specific thing but I've never fed dogs in the same room/area, it just avoids a lot of hassle for dogs that are potentially resource guardy and if the dogs are fed out of a bowl/scatter feeding I prefer to just leave them to it. Neither way is wrong, just different :)
 
CorvusCorax said:
I know this is probably a breed/household specific thing but I've never fed dogs in the same room/area, it just avoids a lot of hassle for dogs that are potentially resource guardy and if the dogs are fed out of a bowl/scatter feeding I prefer to just leave them to it. Neither way is wrong, just different :)
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Your way is right for you.
I want all our dogs eating at the same time, in the same room, in a mannerly manner and they are brought up to do that. We have never had dogs who couldn't eat together with supervision. I just will not have dogs who disagree when I am present. Although I have had dogs that wouldn't leave loose together on their own.
We had a relatives dogs staying here for a couple of weeks while she was in hospital. The bitch was happy to eat at the opposite end of the kitchen to ours but the dog was happier eating from hs bowl in the living room. It drove me mad, having to keep the bitches out until I knew he had finished eating, without rushing him.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Dogs don't tend to be bothered with treats if they know they're getting a big bowl of food anyway once or twice a day.

Dogs don't come out of the womb knowing how to be civilised pets. Unless it's a very calm dog with no play or prey drive, I wouldn't allow a young, new dog free rein of the house and put it in a position to do these things in the first place. It's like taking a toddler to the adventure play park and expecting it not to try any of the equipment. Dogs like these often have to be engaged and then put somewhere safe to rest so that they don't have to self-entertain.

I'm sure your OH can lighten his voice and change his vibe a bit. Also come at the dog from the side, not tower over him, lighten up a bit. If he can't change to adapt to different dogs then he maybe needs to refresh his training.
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Absolutely agree With all of this CC. VERY frustrating that OH who to be fair, turns out sensible, obedient, nice spaniels and labs on a regular basis, is struggling to see that a rehomed terrier x may need an alternative approach.
I will start doing some resource guarding training tomorrow when we have less pressure.
 
suebou said:
Absolutely agree With all of this CC. VERY frustrating that OH who to be fair, turns out sensible, obedient, nice spaniels and labs on a regular basis, is struggling to see that a rehomed terrier x may need an alternative approach.
I will start doing some resource guarding training tomorrow when we have less pressure.
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It's a big problem to get men in particular to change their ways, they worry about looking silly in front of people (especially when told to run around the field with a high pitched voice waving their hands in the air like I make them do....). You can't compare every dog to the ones you've had already, which are nice, sane, sensible ones that have been bred to be that way and you definitely can't train them the same way when a problem arises.
Present it as a positive challenge to him to see if he can change the way he trains and adapt to having a different kind of dog. You wouldn't train two horses of different types/purposes/genetics the same way either!
At the minute the dog thinks growling sends the big scary man away out of his space, he needs to learn that the man is his mate who is nice and provides him with things...but your OH needs to act like his mate.
 
I always caveat all my posts in here that others are so so much more knowledgeable than me but in terms of him growling at OH when he comes near you what happens if you get up and walk away and leave him? I'd be genuinely interested to hear other people's thoughts on this approach but I'm thinking if it's genuinely you he's guarding then could it be an unconfrontational way of showing him that growling doesn't work and get what he wants and removes what he's guarding?
 
I read the original post and my heart sank.

These old posts are the reason that I asked the questions that I did yesterday:

suebou said:
Put him on a check chain for a short period. He’ll take about five minutes to walk decently
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suebou said:
Take him, on a lead, into kitchen, show him worktop, in several places, maybe pat it whilst saying NO! Firmly. Do it several time, using No in a stern voice. Take him in off the lead, every time he looks at it, repeat No, like you mean it.
You should be able to use the command from another room if you spend a few hours ( weekend?) instilling that it is not his place and he needs to stay away from it.
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suebou said:
I too would be saying NO! and shoving her outside
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Back in May you posted this ↓ and I told you then that resource guarding has nothing to do with 'lack of discipline'.

suebou said:
The one I have been given has never been told no, he is a very sweet dog, but the lack of discipline has led him to think the humans bed is his to control…..his owners were reluctant to say no, or get off, and it’s led to growling and possibly a snap. All totally unnecessary.
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To make matters worse you had him neutered. It is a very bad idea to neuter an anxious dog or one who lacks confidence.

Resource guarding is a typical behaviour of an anxious dog.

Poor little Harris.

Not all dogs are dandelions, some are orchids and they need extra care.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
It's a big problem to get men in particular to change their ways, they worry about looking silly in front of people (especially when told to run around the field with a high pitched voice waving their hands in the air like I make them do....). You can't compare every dog to the ones you've had already, which are nice, sane, sensible ones that have been bred to be that way and you definitely can't train them the same way when a problem arises.
Present it as a positive challenge to him to see if he can change the way he trains and adapt to having a different kind of dog. You wouldn't train two horses of different types/purposes/genetics the same way either!
At the minute the dog thinks growling sends the big scary man away out of his space, he needs to learn that the man is his mate who is nice and provides him with things...but your OH needs to act like his mate.
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If nothing else that proves that dog training is more psychologically for humans than dogs (if that makes sense!).
 
skinnydipper said:
I read the original post and my heart sank.

These old posts are the reason that I asked the questions that I did yesterday:








Back in May you posted this ↓ and I told you then that resource guarding has nothing to do with 'lack of discipline'.



To make matters worse you had him neutered. It is a very bad idea to neuter an anxious dog or one who lacks confidence.

Resource guarding is a typical behaviour of an anxious dog.

Poor little Harris.

Not all dogs are dandelions, some are orchids and they need extra care.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate you taking the time to contribute and provide a viewpoint.
 
I order mine to go and wait in the adjacent room alone if they do this sort of thing. A brief time out to reflect and defuse themselves works perfectly for them.

It's good that you're being proactive about the problem whilst it's still a small problem. My sister's previous dog (JRT) used to do what you describe, and she never bothered training him out of it. This resulted in him maturing into a nasty, snattery little dog as an adult (he has since passed away of old age), who couldn't be trusted not to nip or bite her husband and sons.
 
skinnydipper said:
I read the original post and my heart sank.

These old posts are the reason that I asked the questions that I did yesterday:








Back in May you posted this ↓ and I told you then that resource guarding has nothing to do with 'lack of discipline'.



To make matters worse you had him neutered. It is a very bad idea to neuter an anxious dog or one who lacks confidence.

Resource guarding is a typical behaviour of an anxious dog.
Poor little Harris.

Not all dogs are dandelions, some are orchids and they need extra care.
Click to expand...

Thank you. The whole original post made me think that this poor dog was anxious. I really hope this dog finds an understanding new home.
 
My latest Dobermann who I adopted coming up to 2 years is fearful of men but with her history its not surprising, she is not aggressive towards them just avoids if they walk into the house. Once they are sitting she is fine and will go and say hello, she is even friendly if men are outside. After a month or two Cayla came to stay with her partner and I was surprised to see this dog just totally bond with him which to me shows how his body language reassured her. Move on a year and when they came to stay again she hadnt forgotten him and showed the same behaviour. Now Cayla and Arron have had hundreds of dogs through their hands with the rescue and so is experienced with all breeds but the point of this post is to show how a different approach makes a huge difference , they were both familiar with her problem before they came.

OP your husband needs to look at his body language including his voice, the only thing that needs to change is him, if he is unable or unwilling to do so then this dog needs to be rehomed. This is a fearful dog and while I'm not suggesting you tread on eggshells around him your approach needs to change.
 
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