Please help, my foal is causing big problems!

[Leo Walker]

Mine was sent off to a couple of places. I visited him once a month or so. Hasnt affected our "bond". Foals dont need lots of handling. Just the basics which I'm assuming this foal has already.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Over handled youngsters are total PITA's! Your oldie may once have been a great nanny but he is now clearly telling you he needs pensioned off with ponies his own age. Everyone needs a quiet retirement at some point.

Whilst some of our babies havent grown up with others their age they have always ended up with 4yo's or under so they are willing to play and faff. Youngsters need to allowed to be just that - babies! Not expected to be boring their whole lives.

 

[conkers]

I wouldn't turn out my 8 month old foal with my elderly half blind mare for a gold pig.

My mare was brilliant at sorting out youngsters but she now doesn't need the hassle. My youngster is turned out with a small group of other foals and she is very well behaved.

I am actually quite angry and upset that your 2 are telling you that your situation doesn't work and you are ignoring them.

It may not be the easy option but you need to do what is best for your 2 horses. They both have different turn out requirements and it is up to you to provide it.

 

[ester]

Frank is finding a 5 year old fell pony tedious enough at his age! It's like having a toddler in the field.

 

[Leo Walker]

I wouldn't turn out my 8 month old foal with my elderly half blind mare for a gold pig.

I have never heard that phrase before. Its brilliant!

 

[fatpiggy]

many horses are in artificial situations and unless they live out in the wild will continue to be. Most things we do to horses are artificial. What about bathing a yearling, putting it in a lorry and taking it to a show? That is artificial. If you were to send a foal/youngster away to a livery situation how on earth would you bond with it or be able to be with it to teach it things?

I said artificial communities, not artificial situations. A natural herd is a gang of mares of varying ages, probably up to about 18 years old before too many foals and a parasitic burden finishes them off, with the youngsters being pushed away into a "teenage gang" before mum gives birth to the next foal. Colts being pushed out of the herd completely as they start to become sexually mature. An only child brought up by elderly grandparents isn't likely to behave like a child brought up in family with siblings and going to nursery by the time they are 2 years old.

As to bonding with it - my friend had a 4 year old that had been given far more human contact than equine. He was a PITA, had zero knowledge of field behaviour with the others and was constantly getting injured because he couldn't read the warning signs. He was constantly in your face and very clingy to humans.

But I wouldn't have taken on a foal and then not had suitable conditions to raise it in in the first place. If you put it into a livery yard, then you are paying the staff to teach it manners or whatever.

 

[paddy555]

As to bonding with it - my friend had a 4 year old that had been given far more human contact than equine. He was a PITA, had zero knowledge of field behaviour with the others and was constantly getting injured because he couldn't read the warning signs. He was constantly in your face and very clingy to humans.

I disagree. Just because a youngster is handled by humans it doesn't mean it is devoid of horse company. Mine are handled, an awful lot. However not for 24 hours a day. For the rest of the time they have gone out with other horses in the fields. So they have learnt both worlds ie human and horse. Youngsters handled badly are a PITA I agree but not if handled correctly. Older horses are also a PITA if handled/ridden incorrectly.

Mine have never been in my face as they have been taught to stand away from my face so I haven't found that a problem. They would only get as far as my face by invitation, mine not theirs!

Out of all my youngsters over the years (about 14 I think) I have had no problem with constant handling of 11 of them, one was bottle fed by someone else so I have to forgive him. The other 2 however were a problem and more difficult. Both had come from studs and spent their time running with other youngsters. They had had little handling. All one had learnt was that he was the leader and bully boy of his group of youngsters. Throwing his weight around and bullying them worked in that situation. It came as a bit of a shock and took a long time for him to learn that sort of behaviour wasn't desirable with me.

As for clingy then looking back at my best horses over the years they have all been the ones that were very well handled as youngster either by myself or in previous private homes. Not sure about clingy but they were very bonded with me. However I don't want a horse that bonds with others out riding rather than me. I hack out alone a lot. There seem to be lots of posts about horses that won't hack alone. Mine will go anywhere with me.

To me the early overhandling thing is a myth. By the time they are 3 horses are going to be broken in some form, maybe they wont be backed until 4 but they are going to have to do as they are asked on long reins, lunges, etc etc I don't see it is any benefit to a youngster to be turned out with others and to be happily enjoying it's freedom then on it's 3rd birthday someone tells it that is all over now. It is going to be broken. So much more hard work for the owner anyway. Mine haven't even known they are being broken as it has happened in a tiny way every day since they can remember. To my mind that is a much more gently way of horse breaking/training. Much of the work, going out in hand, traffic training has already been done so gradually that the youngster hasn't even noticed.

The other point is that youngsters actually love to learn. I have always found that teach them one thing and they soon learn to look forward to more learning and indeed demand it. My current foal is 9 months old. The highlight of his day is what can we do today. He is also happy to go out in the field and be with his companion.

A few years ago I wanted another horse and went to look at a 3yo gelding at a stud (a very well known and highly thought of stud). He had had little handling and no teaching as such. He had spent his time out with others. He was shut in a stable for my arrival with the top door shut to keep him in. He was like a firecracker when led out. What was going to be the loss of his previous way of life was a big shock to him. I thought of our own youngsters of the same breed at home, all handled and trained since foals, and how laid back, calm and easy to deal they were.

 

[fatpiggy]

I disagree. Just because a youngster is handled by humans it doesn't mean it is devoid of horse company. Mine are handled, an awful lot. However not for 24 hours a day. For the rest of the time they have gone out with other horses in the fields. So they have learnt both worlds ie human and horse. Youngsters handled badly are a PITA I agree but not if handled correctly. Older horses are also a PITA if handled/ridden incorrectly.

Mine have never been in my face as they have been taught to stand away from my face so I haven't found that a problem. They would only get as far as my face by invitation, mine not theirs!

Out of all my youngsters over the years (about 14 I think) I have had no problem with constant handling of 11 of them, one was bottle fed by someone else so I have to forgive him. The other 2 however were a problem and more difficult. Both had come from studs and spent their time running with other youngsters. They had had little handling. All one had learnt was that he was the leader and bully boy of his group of youngsters. Throwing his weight around and bullying them worked in that situation. It came as a bit of a shock and took a long time for him to learn that sort of behaviour wasn't desirable with me.

As for clingy then looking back at my best horses over the years they have all been the ones that were very well handled as youngster either by myself or in previous private homes. Not sure about clingy but they were very bonded with me. However I don't want a horse that bonds with others out riding rather than me. I hack out alone a lot. There seem to be lots of posts about horses that won't hack alone. Mine will go anywhere with me.

To me the early overhandling thing is a myth. By the time they are 3 horses are going to be broken in some form, maybe they wont be backed until 4 but they are going to have to do as they are asked on long reins, lunges, etc etc I don't see it is any benefit to a youngster to be turned out with others and to be happily enjoying it's freedom then on it's 3rd birthday someone tells it that is all over now. It is going to be broken. So much more hard work for the owner anyway. Mine haven't even known they are being broken as it has happened in a tiny way every day since they can remember. To my mind that is a much more gently way of horse breaking/training. Much of the work, going out in hand, traffic training has already been done so gradually that the youngster hasn't even noticed.

The other point is that youngsters actually love to learn. I have always found that teach them one thing and they soon learn to look forward to more learning and indeed demand it. My current foal is 9 months old. The highlight of his day is what can we do today. He is also happy to go out in the field and be with his companion.

A few years ago I wanted another horse and went to look at a 3yo gelding at a stud (a very well known and highly thought of stud). He had had little handling and no teaching as such. He had spent his time out with others. He was shut in a stable for my arrival with the top door shut to keep him in. He was like a firecracker when led out. What was going to be the loss of his previous way of life was a big shock to him. I thought of our own youngsters of the same breed at home, all handled and trained since foals, and how laid back, calm and easy to deal they were.

Agreed but that is because you know how to handle them properly. My friend's horse had been totally babied by humans and spent most of his day in their company. Then they though he would "get hurt" if he was out with the horses, so he had very little experience of his own kind. I lost count of the number of times he came in injured when my friend first bought him, he really was clueless. A great many people have foals simply because they are cutsie wootsie and don't have a clue how to raise them properly, or worse, get bored when they reach the teenage equivalent and just leave them to their own devices in the field.

 

[paddy555]

Agreed but that is because you know how to handle them properly. My friend's horse had been totally babied by humans and spent most of his day in their company. Then they though he would "get hurt" if he was out with the horses, so he had very little experience of his own kind. I lost count of the number of times he came in injured when my friend first bought him, he really was clueless. A great many people have foals simply because they are cutsie wootsie and don't have a clue how to raise them properly, or worse, get bored when they reach the teenage equivalent and just leave them to their own devices in the field.

fair enough it is not handling youngsters that is the problem just handling them badly. Personally I think people miss out a lot by just turning youngsters out and letting them grow up. Of course they have to learn to grow up with horses but also with people as well. There is so much fun to be had both for the youngster and human working together. Not doing so means you miss a couple of years of your horse's life basically.

 

[CBFan]

OP... I think you have received some very useful and realistic replies.

Young horses need the discipline of older horses but they also need the company of younger horses to play with. If you stand and observe the interaction between horses in a herd of mixed age and gender, you will see distinct differences in their behavior. My gelding was turned out in a single sex herd of varying ages (But mostly several years older than him) from 16 months and he thought life was all about gelding games for three years. I then moved to a yard where he went out as the only gelding in a field of mares and he had the shock of his life!! Couldn't understand why no-one wanted to play. He's moved twice since then and gradually become more settled and concerned about eating and now at the age of 10 can be seen getting peed off with my new 5 year old gelding who wants to play all the time!! Weanlings need a certain amount of security, having just been removed from their mums and all that is familiar to them. Some retreat into their shells, while others panic. It sounds like yours is a panicker and the first thing I would have addressed is putting electrified electric fencing around the field perimeter (at your cost) to keep him where he was supposed to be. I did it with my first youngster as I didn't feel the fence was adequate for keeping her in and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Yes, lots of people keep youngsters at livery yards and not without incident, HOWEVER turning them out with ONE other companion is unfair on both the youngster and the companion who, without a doubt will get annoyed with a youngster's antics, the youngster will also get clingy and resent the removal of his companion, whereas in a larger group they don't notice their mates coming and going as much.

Seeing your youngster once a week, where his basic needs are looked after the rest of the time is better than having him stressing and trashing fences where you can see him every day. If he learns to go through fences now, you're stuffed for life. You needet worry about not forming a bond. It will happen. I've just taken on a 5 year old who has been very badly handled and it's proving very rewarding, if a little tough forming a bond with him and teaching him that I can be trusted... AKA undoing issues caused by past miss-handling.

 

[hollyflower]

Sorry, have tapped out of this thread as I found a lot of the comments to be vaguely insulting at times and a lot of the suggestions ridiculous. You know if my two were owned by the people who own the competition yard I have just met they would both be turned out for only four hours, alone and in a stable for the other 20, lots of horses have no company but I think it is really important that they do, so although they may not be first choices for each other, they are both nice natured and pleasant with each other. I certainly won't be sending away the pony who has been with me for all those years or sending the foal far away to be someone else's problem, the reason I got a youngster was so that I can mould him and he couldn't have a better role model than the pony, he is a saint. So I have ignored everything you said and moved them to the new yard, it is much more secure and relaxed and they have settled right away, I have made lots of food treats and toys to amuse the foal, so he can has a play. It's all going great. If the idea you have is of a large rowdy foal and a miserable depressed pony then you have got the wrong end of the stick entirely. The foal is more respectful on the ground than most horses I have met, by six months he was loading, leading, going over poles, walking out on the road, picking up and trimming his feet, happy to be hosed and bathed, rugged etc etc etc I am not doing a crap job with them they are both wonderful to be around. I am though bright enough to know when the balance is a bit off and want to make it better. As far as I'm concerned that is the best we can do for our horses.

 

[hollyflower]

OP... I think you have received some very useful and realistic replies.

Young horses need the discipline of older horses but they also need the company of younger horses to play with. If you stand and observe the interaction between horses in a herd of mixed age and gender, you will see distinct differences in their behavior. My gelding was turned out in a single sex herd of varying ages (But mostly several years older than him) from 16 months and he thought life was all about gelding games for three years. I then moved to a yard where he went out as the only gelding in a field of mares and he had the shock of his life!! Couldn't understand why no-one wanted to play. He's moved twice since then and gradually become more settled and concerned about eating and now at the age of 10 can be seen getting peed off with my new 5 year old gelding who wants to play all the time!! Weanlings need a certain amount of security, having just been removed from their mums and all that is familiar to them. Some retreat into their shells, while others panic. It sounds like yours is a panicker and the first thing I would have addressed is putting electrified electric fencing around the field perimeter (at your cost) to keep him where he was supposed to be. I did it with my first youngster as I didn't feel the fence was adequate for keeping her in and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Yes, lots of people keep youngsters at livery yards and not without incident, HOWEVER turning them out with ONE other companion is unfair on both the youngster and the companion who, without a doubt will get annoyed with a youngster's antics, the youngster will also get clingy and resent the removal of his companion, whereas in a larger group they don't notice their mates coming and going as much.

Seeing your youngster once a week, where his basic needs are looked after the rest of the time is better than having him stressing and trashing fences where you can see him every day. If he learns to go through fences now, you're stuffed for life. You needet worry about not forming a bond. It will happen. I've just taken on a 5 year old who has been very badly handled and it's proving very rewarding, if a little tough forming a bond with him and teaching him that I can be trusted... AKA undoing issues caused by past miss-handling.

I did put electric fencing up, he ran straight through it ten times

 

[Clodagh]

That is great news. To be fair it did sound as though a large breed foal was persecuting a blind small pony. If that isn;t the case and they are both happy in their new home then well done.

 

[ester]

Well even the post title says big problems.

In the end it just seems like a dodgy fencing issue.