Please help my friend,horse not paid for, now sold!

china said:
Passports are no longer a proof of ownership. Only identity.
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What actually IS considered proof of ownership these days? Interested as there *could* be a fuzzy area over ownership of two of my horses (of course the two i want to keep forever!)
 
Are insurance documents with your name on proof of ownership? Or just proof of having insurance? You would think there would be something we could rely on as proof...
 
From another, "highly in the know", elements needed for theft:-

dishonestly
appropriates
property
belonging to another
with INTENTION to permanently deprive the other of it.

Horses are capable of being property. OP; if your friend has the text messages etc, although a written contract is preferable, verbal contract is still binding. Text messages add weight to the case.

I assume that trying to sell a horse not paid for isn't intending to permanently deprive the owner of it then 1Lucie? :)

Print off the advert. Make enquiries with the issuing passport agency. Call the Police. Keep the texts on the phone. As well as theft, could have a possible fraud [by false rep] and certainly a handling stolen goods.

Will certainly almost be a civil element to it as well. Other info about missing horses online etc are things I would consider doing too.
 
PandorasJar said:
Doubtful, as loaners/sharers can all get out insurance on your horse for while they're riding

Pan
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But when filling out the form they have to declare if the horse is on loan to, purchased by, or bred by them...and passport number/name of horse has to used too, so can't insurance companies double check to see if a horse is still owned by someone else? And write to them to confirm ownership?

It's disgraceful that we have no absolute proof - a part of the passport should be for who currently owns the horse! Or there should be a horse owner card that you could get, with data such as microchip and passport numbers, etc.
 
Arizahn said:
But when filling out the form they have to declare if the horse is on loan to, purchased by, or bred by them...and passport number/name of horse has to used too, so can't insurance companies double check to see if a horse is still owned by someone else? And write to them to confirm ownership?

It's disgraceful that we have no absolute proof - a part of the passport should be for who currently owns the horse! Or there should be a horse owner card that you could get, with data such as microchip and passport numbers, etc.
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Because they don't. I wasn't asked anything I should've been last time I phoned for insurance. All they needed was her name, breed and age. How long I'd owned her was asked, but never at any point what her passport/microchip number etc was.

Lots of things should happen but unfortunately don't. Luckily mine was originally OH's and would never leave me unless sold, I couldn't loan. But can't imagine the nightmare of having one stolen by someone you trusted or receiving a stolen one without realising.

Personally I'd keep text/email exchanges, get a contract of sale signed by the new/old owner and a receipt. I'm untrusting though :(

Pan
 
Even if the advert is no longer online, you may try searching on google for some of the descriptive terms (especially if you remember which website it was advertised on) - chances are that the details are still in google's cache and you may still be able to view the advert.
 
True, neither yard I've moved to has asked to see the passport or even for proof of who I am - just asked if I had a passport for her! Scary when you think about it, really...
 
McNally said:
What actually IS considered proof of ownership these days? Interested as there *could* be a fuzzy area over ownership of two of my horses (of course the two i want to keep forever!)
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The PIA I work for creates a 'Certificate of Registered Ownership' when new passports are created which are supposed to be completed every time a horse changes ownership (you can tell by my use of italics that this doesn't always happen). In circumstances such as that/if the certificate is lost, we ask for proof of purchase and the passport to be sent in. If the new owner doesn't have a passport/requests a duplicate passport but isn't the registered owner on our system, we contact the last registered owner and try to track the horse's path to it's new owners hands. I'm not sure if all PIA's are as accommodating as us though :P
 
I think where your friend will fall down on the element of Theft is that it was 12 months ago that this pony was taken from your friend. A deposit was paid and a verbal agreement made to make further payments. These payments have not been made. It is down to your friend to evidence that this verbal agreement took place. How often were the payments supposed to be made? Was she not suspicious having recieved no payment after 12 months??!
Im not trying to have a go but all the other party has to say is that she paid for the horse in full ( your word against hers that it was only a deposit ) and that because of this payment the horse belongs to her, and it seems from what you have said, that your friend has no prove otherwise?
 
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